What's the point? | Page 5 | Vital Football

What's the point?

Totally agree with what Notty has said.
This is a message board for the fans to have their say, the only entitlement is that they are entitled to air any opinion they like. And that's all it is....an opinion by a supporter either good bad or indifferent

We are not privy to everything that goes on within the confines of the club I'm sure there are things said by me or anyone that people within the club find frustrating but that's the way it is.

We all have passion for the club and we are all different therefore we will all form different opinions that's how we are as human beings.

I have not or would never disrespect the Chairman, the club, the players or any of my fellow supporters, yes, I will criticise when I think criticism is warranted but I will also praise when that's warranted aswell.

What will never happen is that I won't be shut down (unless I get banned) and neither should anyone else.
Everyone's opinion is relevant.

The entitlement and looking down their noses comes from people who somehow think they are a better person and a better fan because the don't like someone who may of posted a bit of criticism or negativity
Well get over it, your not special. If you can't take reading a bit of criticism every now and again your in the wrong place.

Football stirs emotions, fans react in different ways some good, some bad and it will never be any different.
 
Sigiriya said:
...we somehow had our record ever attendance of over 23,000 against Derby County when we were a 4th, yes 4th Division Club, and that was the year after we had finished bottom of the entire Football League!
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I think that could be put down to supporters having been starved of success for so many years. Ron Gray revitalised the club that summer, and three wins out of the first five league games was the kind of run we'd not been used to seeing. Then came the League Cup run, beating third tier Mansfield, then top flight Newcastle (which game itself drew over 15,000) followed by another Third Division club in Torquay, beating them by no less than 4-2 in front of another five-figure gate.

In a way it was on a par with the FA Cup run in 2016/17 in that it caught people's imaginations, and after the away draw with Derby everyone turned up hoping to see another win at home. There was also the hope of further progress, with the draw for the next round (the quarter-finals) having produced a winnable home tie with fellow mid-table Fourth Division side Darlington and the prospect of a place in the semi-finals.
 
Sigiriya said:
I can't answer your question, but it is one that I have often given thought to. Why, for example, have Barnsley, Rotherham and a host of other clubs in similar sized towns performed better in the Football League than we have over the last 50 years? When you look at the crowd attendances when we were first back in the old Division 2 in the 1950s they were often around the 15,000 mark, so the notion that Lincoln is not a football City doesn't stand scrutiny in my opinion.
On a number of occasions this City and the wider county of Lincolnshire have shown that there is a hunger and an appetite to support a well run, well managed football club, that has the vision and a desire to be the best that we can be. I see examples of this as the fact that for many a year we held the attendance record for what is now the National League (and still would if the real attendance figure for the Wycombe game was ever published), we got over crowds of over 10,000 in to see us play pretty meaningless friendly matches against Newcastle and Liverpool, and we somehow had our record ever attendance of over 23,000 against Derby County when we were a 4th, yes 4th Division Club, and that was the year after we had finished bottom of the entire Football League!
The potential for Lincoln City, therefore, as an established League 1 (Division 3, whatever you want to call it) club is clear for all to see. For some reason, though, this potential had not been spotted. As a result, the fan base and the pride in the club had virtually vanished into nothing, resulting in our second relegation to non-league football.
Memories are still fresh at this club amongst a lot of the fans of the trauma caused by that second relegation. Despite all the recent success we have had, though, it seems to me that there is still a fear, an anxiety, of returning to those days. Previous managers who had achieved success with this club were soon snapped up by "bigger" clubs, and the clubs fortunes faded as a result. Whereas the DNA of some clubs, like Wimbledon, for example, is all about fight and survive, the DNA of this club, for many a year, has been about anxiety, and that is a very limiting emotion to experience and I think this is what Clive is picking up on at the moment in its many and varied manifestations.
For it to take a non English national to spot the potential that Lincoln City has does not surprise me. That baton has now been picked up by an American. For that I am eternally grateful, as I was beginning to wonder if anyone would in my lifetime. The greatest gift that we, as a fan base, can give Clive, Liam, the MA and the players, is to put our anxiety to one side and look at the bigger picture and help them to irrevocably change the DNA of this club and its supporters (probably the hardest and most difficult task that they have, far more difficult in my opinion than trying to squeeze a few more seats into Sincil Bank here and there). We need to offer our support in any way we can to show that we are side to side with them in the vision for our club. If we can do that then not only will we secure the immediate future of the club on the field, but on it and off it to for years to come. This is the chance of a lifetime for this club, let's not lose it through short sighted, short term thinking.
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That is very well put. Agree 100%.

What is amazing, really, is how well crowds have held up, especially given the terrible run of results recently and the effects of concern about covid.
I don't think Clive should be concerned about a relatively few people mouthing off on some platform or other that they're not going any more. More fool them to say that.
Generalised concern and discussion, even questioning, tactics, selection , recruitment, substitutions, player performances is all fair game surely? I don't include booing by the way.
Despite and partly because of, our recent successful spell, I think there is a real air of concern that as a club we are in danger of relinquishing the hard won L1 status. Partly undoing some of the good work. Although the infra structure of the club now puts us in a much better position to bounce back. In this situation some criticism is inevitable. I think most fans would now be very happy just to stay up. Who knows how long it would take as we aren't like your Swindons, Northampton and Plymouth who don't stay in the basement for long.
You cannot question what Clive and the Board have done for the club which is why it would be such a shame to go backwards. I think most fans' support, especially those on here, is pretty unconditional. They would watch City on the cowpaddle. Some will be more result/entertainment dependent. To use Skinners behaviourist theory, positive reinforcement leads to repeat behaviour, negative reinforcement extinguishes the behaviour.
As everyone, including managers, knows and to state the bleeding obvious, it's a results business. As has been said on this board many times: 'Results. End of.'
After all, to quote the old Likely Lads joke. The two biggest worries in life? Going bald and relegation. Not necessarily in that order.
OK, I know, worse things than his happen at sea, and in Grimsby.
 
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Excellent OP from Clive, and plenty of sensible responses including Jules' piece.

'Entitlement' isn't perhaps the right word, but theres a few contributors on this forum who seem to have unrealistic expectations, and by all accounts a lot worse on other social media where there seems to be a desire to see MA and the club fail. Why, just why?

I've been an Imps supporter since 1968 and the last 5 years have been the most sustained period of success in that time and the most enjoyable.

But if football was constant and predictable, we wouldn't follow it. Success is not guaranteed even with the best board in my lifetime, and one of the best managers.

People seem to have short memories and misunderstanding of context. This season hasn't been great, but I've seen the Imps live 4 times this season and in 3 of those games MA's teams have played some of the best football I've seen in my 53 years of watching the Imps live, after last season's iFollow delights.

Loss of key players, through end of loans, transfers and injury, compounded by missing a couple of transfer targets has derailed the season so far.

That's not down to 'lack of ambition', 'signing crap players', 'useless, stubborn manager playing the wrong players and the wrong method'. Progress is not smooth, not predictable and the last few months more things have gone wrong than right, force majeure and all of that.

I'm confident the board and management will be doing all that can to analyse what has been going wrong and in the next month do what they can on the transfer market to bring in resources to rectify that.

Keep the faith and above all, show your support for the team, MA and the board. This is a fantastic football club in fantastic hands. Keep dreaming even if there are set backs along the way. UTI!
 
I dont think this site, generally, is that guilty of entitlement. People get disappointed but most have a decent perspective of where we are, how far we have come and how incredibly well we are run. I just had a look at Clives twitter ~ he recently posted about something not directly related to the imps (the FA and its nefarious plans). He got one response, which i think epitomizes the notion of entitlement.

"Maybe concentrate on the serious mess we’re in and find us a manager who will turn this around. Because there’s only one place we’re heading!! Worst form in the league and nothing looks like changing. Everyone’s had enough now. Can’t believe it’s been left this long"

I do think this is just the age we live in. Social media means its much harder to ignore people who would previously not really register... and we now have a very noisy minority and a much quieter majority (in all things... politics, pandemic preventions, sport, following the imps). There will always be loud ignorant voices ~ it is easy to say ignore it ~ but it is not always,easy to do. Anyway, i think reading on here and listening to other imps talking it is absolutely clear that the big majority are right behind where the football club are, incredibly appreciative for what we have (a relegation fight in league 1 ~ we could only dream of that excitement 6 years ago!) And completely confident in the direction we are going ~even if there are a few bumps in the road. UTI
 
If everybody reacted in the ‘proper’ sense, that some advocate, then we will be living in some form of utopia, possibly bored rigid by the mundane.

We’re human beings, and experience life in many different ways and subtle contexts. I don’t see that anyone’s opinion is more or less valid than anybody else’s. This is a forum after all.

The most annoying people are those that attempt to suppress or belittle the opinions of others. There are a few on here that feel that they have some kind of intellectual high ground. They are arrogant and pompous. If we criticise those that complain (and there are many reasons in the World at the moment that may exaggerate that) then we must also criticise the self-important. Yes, there are ‘idiots’ that take voicing criticism to the lowest depths; just simply let them have their say and ignore - they will soon tire and go elsewhere. If they don’t, you may well find out that it’s their coping mechanism for a deep-seated emotional investment in the prosperity of the Club, a ClUb which they see (rightly or wrongly) as being under threat.

The vast majority, whether they wear rose tinted spectacles or dare to voice constructive criticism, all have LCFC close to their heart. Be it those that have supported for decades or those new to the journey.
 
Seen this on twitter, Bristol City spent 35.3 million on wages in the championship.
They're not even getting near the playoffs.
Then teams like them(Wednesday) get relegated then people wonder why we're struggling.
 
Just to be clear, I never suggested that fans couldn't be frustrated or couldn't criticise or post negative views on the club, manager, chairman or anyone else. That's all part of the joy of following a club and what message boards are for.

I had hoped my post was more about considering what our fans wanted from the club and the consequences of their actions rather than it being a moan about any social media criticism.

There is a very simple solution to the latter. If anyone doesn't like or value what a contributor has to say the ignore/mute option is a godsend. I unashamedly use it regularly and especially on Twitter.
 
A
Croozey said:
I think any proper supporter of the club, would be more than happy with where we are. (apart from immediately after another defeat, which is only human). Would you rather be challenging for promotion from the National League or fighting a relegation battle in Division 1. The ambition of our chairman has got us this far and realistically, its about as high up the pyramid you could expect. I'm proud that we are in safe hands and being run within our means. The lovely passing style of football Michael Appleton is trying to play is also a big plus for me. I don't want us to be Gillingham.
We are a club that has had very little success to crow about in my lifetime. So for me, the last 5 years have been amazing. In fact the most successful 5 years in the clubs history. Lincoln City have put Lincoln back on the map.
Keep it up Clive. Ups and downs of running a football club. "Illegitimi non carborundum".
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Excellent post. I frankly had wondered whether I would ever see my beloved Lincoln City ever back in the Football League.
So, ok, we’re on a poor run but the fundamental structure for success is in place under Clive and his Directors.
Perspective needed? Well NYD we are due to play Ipswich Town away …5 years ago it was Guiseley at home on NYD . I know which one I prefer and we should recognise how far we have come as a club in such a short time.
 
cherryexile said:
Hyde away.
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My usual thoughts are sitting or standing where those singing it are, and before that standing a lot lower down than where I now sit.
I'm with Notty and Clanford, I don't see entitlement just differing opinions, and varied reactions to a difficult time.
I've lived in Barnsley throughout their rise to the PL, and inevitable slip backwards. It's no different here, you couldn't get a ticket at the beginning, now they can close an entire stand and not fill the place! Football fans and all people come in all kinds of strange!
As an aside, it always tickles me on this kind of thread, when people feel the need to say how long they've been attending. Well done, by the way.
 
Results have been poor but the margin of the scorelines tells you everything you need to know.
We are not a bad side when we have certain players available.We all experience a bad run in our lives,( you know how it works). You get up the morning you have the same routine, but somehow things go wrong at some point during the day.
That's Lincoln's story at the moment. There trying to get those 2 or 3 wins but it's just not happening at the moment.
What I saw on Boxing Day was a team that still has the ability to play decent football, but get panicky if something goes against them. Any relationship can have a wobble, and only the ones with proper foundations and understanding of their partners needs survive.
That's where we are right now with Lincoln City. If you love the club you'll get over this rocky patch and have a better understanding of your relationship.
If you cant handle a few tricky weeks then it was only a brief fling and it was never meant to be.
Some fans need to make their mind up as to which kind of a relationship they want.
 
SAToffeeImp said:
It's great to be home in mostly sunny Johannesburg. Four weeks away is a very long time especially in current circumstances. It was extremely important to get over and see key people face-to-face for the first time in 21 months and to meet Harvey and his family and Landon for the first time. But it wasn't what I would describe as an enjoyable trip - Omicron breaking the day I arrived, crap weather, getting put on antibiotics after getting sick, endless Covid tests, not seeing us win and probably being overly cautious in avoiding various situations such as even visiting the EPC while players and staff were around.

But to the point of this thread. I have for obvious reasons limited my reading of posts on social media for a while now but decided in the last few days to catch up on the mood out there. I wouldn't say I am surprised by what I read other than seeing how some long term fans are giving up on attending games or even watching us on iFollow. Unfortunately it confirms what I have been told via personal/direct messages and it does amaze me. How do I get my head around a fan, who watched the team at it's worst times in non-league, now telling me he could not be bothered to come watch us against Hartlepool because he wouldn't enjoy it? That together with a post from clanfordimp (quoted below) sparked that thought, What's the point?

"Yeah I totally get that it's all about money and it's a very fine balancing act but if I thought we were just a club that was just loaning a couple of Prem U/23 players then just trying to produce another couple of players to sell for 500 grand without having the ambition to move up the ladder ourselves then I would think what's the point.

It's up to the chairman and the rest of the investors to show us that this is not the case but on the other hand I also do understand the kind of ridiculous money it takes just to get you anywhere near to challenging just to get out of this league never mind establish yourself in the Championship."

I only got involved to the extent I did because I believed there was the possibility to progress the club and the response of the fans to our early success was a major part of that. It's just too much time, effort and money from where I live for it to be any other way. I believe there is still that possibility under the current ownership structure but not if a significant number of fans ditch us so quickly at the first sign of difficulty.

So what is the point? Does it mean simply mean having the ambition to move up the ladder as quickly as possible to keep the majority of fans on board? If so, we need a different type of ownership structure although having said that even Brighton and Brentford with billionaire owners had a period near the bottom of the table a season after finishing in the play-offs.

I suppose it surprises me considering the club's history that there is already such extreme entitlement. I thought there was a lot more substance to what we stood for in the community and that there would be a lot more patience from fans to try build a sustainable club considering that just a short while ago we were a lower half National League club and that 18 months ago we started the season with the primary objective of surviving the effects of Covid.

Unfortunately the current reality is that it's not just up to the Chairman and investors to show ambition. It's a two-way street under the current model and board where only a limited few have the ability/desire to currently invest and those that do still have to fund the entitled ones from the past.
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To go the other way Clive in amongst the disruption do you believe the trip was positive and fruitful in some quarters and what was Harvey’s take? Was it as he imagined?
 
Davidimp said:
Seen this on twitter, Bristol City spent 35.3 million on wages in the championship.
They're not even getting near the playoffs.
Then teams like them(Wednesday) get relegated then people wonder why we're struggling.
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their best paid player is on £35k a week might be more now as I was going off a few years ago. Championship is serious stuff. They spend it as they probably have the resource and fan base to be top flight. They were very close before just beaten by dean windass
 
Davidimp said:
Seen this on twitter, Bristol City spent 35.3 million on wages in the championship.
They're not even getting near the playoffs.
Then teams like them(Wednesday) get relegated then people wonder why we're struggling.
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38 million pound loss, it is absolutely mind boggling. We are far from out this pandemic yet, it must be hard for any club to budget for transfer fees and contract wages, when they don’t know if they are going to be playing in front of the maximum available crowds providing the funding.

To be honest I am amazed the transfer fees held up as well as they did, considering some of the clubs losses. At the moment, as long as I have a club to watch on a Saturday afternoon I will be happy.
 
bbh 11 said:
38 million pound loss, it is absolutely mind boggling. We are far from out this pandemic yet, it must be hard for any club to budget for transfer fees and contract wages, when they don’t know if they are going to be playing in front of the maximum available crowds providing the funding.

To be honest I am amazed the transfer fees held up as well as they did, considering some of the clubs losses. At the moment, as long as I have a club to watch on a Saturday afternoon I will be happy.
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but don’t forget they had Lee Johnson as manager and Ashton who is now at Ipswich. Their squad was massive

They liked to spend and spend they did. I think since Pearson came in they are conservative with a small c.
 
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