What's the point? | Page 4 | Vital Football

What's the point?

The whole point about following a club is that you stick by them in good times and bad. Yes, I suspect we have a number of fair weather fans, who are kicking off about this and that and everything else.

Yet, what the fair weather fans don't appreciate is, that should they abandon the club in tough times, then the likelihood of fair weather reduces significantly.

Clive's excellent begs the question "what's the point?" The only answer I can provide is
"Because we are all Imps" That's why at every game that Boris says we can attend, and mini Jeff and I can get to, we will be there. End of. Never in doubt. Yes there is a small amount of morbid fascination from going to games, whereby we may not expect to get anything from, but in a way it's down to perspective. I don't think of the Winter Solstice gloomily, I rejoice as it means for the next six months it will be getting lighter.

I view the situation at The Bank in the same way. It will get lighter and the darkness of losing and pessimism will subside.

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas, Clive and have a great 2022.
 
To be honest I don't see too much entitlement on this forum. I try to avoid the facebook groups as they aren't for me, but I'm guessing that is the main source? I don't think the exasperation of 5 (I think it is) home league wins in a calendar year can really be classed as entitlement.
 
I am in total agreement with Clive.
I haven’t posted for a while (or even come on here) because of the utter nonsense being spouted.
I’ve been an imps supporter since I was about 12 / 13 in 1994. A supporter, not a ‘fan’ or ‘follower’ - an actual supporter.
I was one of the first supporters trust ‘Gold’ members back in 2002/2003, around the time of administration (member 009).
I was there when Aldershot relegated us.
I travelled home and away throughout our below mid-table finishes in the conference.
Having seen the club through some pretty rough times, administration, relegations, bucket collections, I know that some people have no idea what success looks like.
Finishing anywhere in league one is incredible considering that 5 years ago we finished 13th in the conference just behind Woking and Barrow and one point ahead of Bromley!
There is a huge difference between an ageing Matt Sparrow and Greg Tempest against Liam Bridcutt and Anthony Scully!
No offence to Chris Moyses (who did a lot for nothing) but there’s a huge difference between him and Michael Appleton!
We should be delighted to be where we are in such a short space of time. What were people expecting? A team that hasn’t played second tier football for decades firing their way up the leagues against teams with multi-million pound signings on multi-million pound wages in such a short space of time?
We did well last season but perhaps it’s left people with false expectations. We had some huge slices of luck and had more than a few ‘one-off’ players to help us get there. If we’d have gone up, we’d be the worse for it now in my opinion.
We need to build slowly. We can’t rush this. It’s not all going to be plain sailing.
If people are deciding to stay away from league one football because we’re not winning games like we were in 2016/2017 in the conference, then they’re not supporters. They’re fair-weather fans. Glory seekers, proudly wearing their colours when things are going well then slipping back into their Liverpool and Man City shirts when it isn’t going so well.
Jesus Christ. Give yourselves a reality check!
 
I think we just need to recognise what this, or any message board, is. For some it’s intellectual banter, but for many it’s a sounding board. A place to let off steam. I doubt that many that state they’re ditching will seriously do so - they may miss a game or two but will be back, or simply, it’s the only platform available to them (as passionate fans) to get stress out of their system.
To Clive and everyone else involved in the Club, and the fans, hang in there. We’ve been spoilt over recent years, now is the time to consolidate and build steadily but surely.
 
Dale1981 said:
I am in total agreement with Clive.
I haven’t posted for a while (or even come on here) because of the utter nonsense being spouted.
I’ve been an imps supporter since I was about 12 / 13 in 1994. A supporter, not a ‘fan’ or ‘follower’ - an actual supporter.
I was one of the first supporters trust ‘Gold’ members back in 2002/2003, around the time of administration (member 009).
I was there when Aldershot relegated us.
I travelled home and away throughout our below mid-table finishes in the conference.
Having seen the club through some pretty rough times, administration, relegations, bucket collections, I know that some people have no idea what success looks like.
Finishing anywhere in league one is incredible considering that 5 years ago we finished 13th in the conference just behind Woking and Barrow and one point ahead of Bromley!
There is a huge difference between an ageing Matt Sparrow and Greg Tempest against Liam Bridcutt and Anthony Scully!
No offence to Chris Moyses (who did a lot for nothing) but there’s a huge difference between him and Michael Appleton!
We should be delighted to be where we are in such a short space of time. What were people expecting? A team that hasn’t played second tier football for decades firing their way up the leagues against teams with multi-million pound signings on multi-million pound wages in such a short space of time?
We did well last season but perhaps it’s left people with false expectations. We had some huge slices of luck and had more than a few ‘one-off’ players to help us get there. If we’d have gone up, we’d be the worse for it now in my opinion.
We need to build slowly. We can’t rush this. It’s not all going to be plain sailing.
If people are deciding to stay away from league one football because we’re not winning games like we were in 2016/2017 in the conference, then they’re not supporters. They’re fair-weather fans. Glory seekers, proudly wearing their colours when things are going well then slipping back into their Liverpool and Man City shirts when it isn’t going so well.
Jesus Christ. Give yourselves a reality check!
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Spot on mate!
We can't with likes of Wednesday as they're notorious for spending cash they haven't got and they aren't the ones .
Yes we've been poor at home in 2021 but there are reasons behind like having 16 players available on Sunday.
I'll be there as on often as I can afford as I have done since I left school in 1989 and more occasionally before that (1982 to 89).
 
You wouldn't believe the number of times I have read this site in the last few months and thought "What's the point?".

Why? Threads going off-topic, turning political, nothing but constant negative comments from some who fail to look at the bigger picture, people swearing at fellow members just because they disagree with something they have said, whether on here or the other forum on Vital Lincoln City.

I'm guilty of getting a bit angry with people, but that is because all I actually see from some is constant negativity.

I don't know if people have noticed, but I have spent less and less time on the site over the last month or so. I don't think people realise the difficult position they put me in when the swearing and abuse starts, because I don't want to be handing out bans. In fact, I've warned people in the last few months via private message and been on the end of some crap. Disagree with someone, but don't be abusive towards them.

This is the first time since Sunday I've switched my laptop on. I would usually be very much on top of the articles, but I'm quite a way behind now.

I have sacrificed a lot of time, effort, and money in the last ten years. During the first few years, I barely attended an away match, just to try and ensure the website continued, so that money could continue to go into the Football Club because they desparately needed it.

Now I barely come online.

Anyway, just wanted to get this out there.
 
Some on social media have moaned about since Michael took over, claiming he's crap and never done anything anywhere...
And I thought it was the players who were thick not the fans?
 
Lincoln fans are really no different from any other in how they treat success and failure. It was to Cowley's credit that he built up this idea of an amazing fan base which put so many on the ST numbers but ultimately a period of relative failure would see us regress back to the historical mean.

Personally i do think supporters are entitled to have a moan as long as they don't get personal with it.
My Anecdote.
My son didnt go to the Hartlepool match. I remember going home and telling him he made the right decision. It was a dreadful game and although I wouldn't boo myself, unless the players are not trying which they definitely are, I understood the reception at the end.
My son was also sick and unable to go on Sunday. I told him it was a great game and one of the best of the season. I thought we played well and were beaten by a really athletic and talented side.
As his PCR test was negative we would have gone tonight if the game had been on.

I do agree that now is the time that we need to be positive and when the support is really needed.
Generally I would say the support at the games has been good. There is still a lot of goodwill and the supporters have wanted to get behind the team even with our style of football making us a difficult watch when struggling.
What is said on social media sites i am less bothered about
 
NottyImp said:
I don't see too may "entitled" fans on here. Maybe they're on other forms of social media that I don't use.

This is a message-board for fans. It will have on it the endlessly positive, the endlessly negative and everyone in between.

And none of it should be taken too seriously by anyone.
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Great post. Precisely this.
 
My first season watching City was 1946/47 season, at the beginning of next season I will have followed & attended as many games as possible for 76 years,
Now I have seen some dreadful managers & players & teams in that time, but that hasn't made me decide not to attend matches.
We are still playing some decent football in a higher league than most can remember City being in, although we aren't getting the wins we need at the present time, but things will change for the better.
As far as managers go MA is one of the top 5 managers that City have had since my time of supporting CIty.
So let's hope Clive doesn't get to disheartened with the minority of the moaning fans who haven't seen City when they were really bad.
 
Unfortunately this forum has resembled the Fishy at times lately with the amount of people throwing their toys out of the pram. because they think we have a god given right to be successful based on recent seasons.. Everyone's entitled to a kneejerk reaction, kick the cat etc in the heat of the moment but some of the stuff is embarrassing. Success becomes much less frequent the higher up the league you get, we cant possibly sustain it , being a hum drum league 1 side is success of a kind in its own right whether some people like the fact or not. We've become a victim of our own success , it would have probably been a much easier ride for MApp and co if he'd finished mid table or lower last season and not raised the expectations of some of our new and returning fair weather fans. But i guess it shouldn't come as surprise really as we're no different in our make up from any other clubs fans. What i do find worrying is that our chairman is concerned enough to start this thread. Football fortunes change so quickly, and we clearly have the best set up behind the scenes this club has known since i've been supporting. If they eventually walk, our descent will be a lot quicker than the climb was.
 
jal jal said:
My first season watching City was 1946/47 season, at the beginning of next season I will have followed & attended as many games as possible for 76 years,
Now I have seen some dreadful managers & players & teams in that time, but that hasn't made me decide not to attend matches.
We are still playing some decent football in a higher league than most can remember City being in, although we aren't getting the wins we need at the present time, but things will change for the better.
As far as managers go MA is one of the top 5 managers that City have had since my time of supporting CIty.
So let's hope Clive doesn't get to disheartened with the minority of the moaning fans who haven't seen City when they were really bad.
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76 years very IMPressive you probably seen it all to be fair.
 
SAToffeeImp said:
It's great to be home in mostly sunny Johannesburg. Four weeks away is a very long time especially in current circumstances. It was extremely important to get over and see key people face-to-face for the first time in 21 months and to meet Harvey and his family and Landon for the first time. But it wasn't what I would describe as an enjoyable trip - Omicron breaking the day I arrived, crap weather, getting put on antibiotics after getting sick, endless Covid tests, not seeing us win and probably being overly cautious in avoiding various situations such as even visiting the EPC while players and staff were around.

But to the point of this thread. I have for obvious reasons limited my reading of posts on social media for a while now but decided in the last few days to catch up on the mood out there. I wouldn't say I am surprised by what I read other than seeing how some long term fans are giving up on attending games or even watching us on iFollow. Unfortunately it confirms what I have been told via personal/direct messages and it does amaze me. How do I get my head around a fan, who watched the team at it's worst times in non-league, now telling me he could not be bothered to come watch us against Hartlepool because he wouldn't enjoy it? That together with a post from clanfordimp (quoted below) sparked that thought, What's the point?

"Yeah I totally get that it's all about money and it's a very fine balancing act but if I thought we were just a club that was just loaning a couple of Prem U/23 players then just trying to produce another couple of players to sell for 500 grand without having the ambition to move up the ladder ourselves then I would think what's the point.

It's up to the chairman and the rest of the investors to show us that this is not the case but on the other hand I also do understand the kind of ridiculous money it takes just to get you anywhere near to challenging just to get out of this league never mind establish yourself in the Championship."

I only got involved to the extent I did because I believed there was the possibility to progress the club and the response of the fans to our early success was a major part of that. It's just too much time, effort and money from where I live for it to be any other way. I believe there is still that possibility under the current ownership structure but not if a significant number of fans ditch us so quickly at the first sign of difficulty.

So what is the point? Does it mean simply mean having the ambition to move up the ladder as quickly as possible to keep the majority of fans on board? If so, we need a different type of ownership structure although having said that even Brighton and Brentford with billionaire owners had a period near the bottom of the table a season after finishing in the play-offs.

I suppose it surprises me considering the club's history that there is already such extreme entitlement. I thought there was a lot more substance to what we stood for in the community and that there would be a lot more patience from fans to try build a sustainable club considering that just a short while ago we were a lower half National League club and that 18 months ago we started the season with the primary objective of surviving the effects of Covid.

Unfortunately the current reality is that it's not just up to the Chairman and investors to show ambition. It's a two-way street under the current model and board where only a limited few have the ability/desire to currently invest and those that do still have to fund the entitled ones from the past.
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Clive you are doing a great job and I will be renewing my season ticket just as I have done for the last 30 odd years.

The point I would just like to make is don't mistake the moaning, entitlement and ramblings of a few self entitled cyber warriors as a barometer for the vast majority of fans.

You only have took at the hysteria of the vocal minority and the media in general to understand the type of society we have created. The generally contented and realistic majority remain silent while the vocal loonies spout off.

Keep the faith I have no doubt the huge majority of Imps fans are firmly behind you. Ignore the gobby moaners I find it makes for a more contented life.
 
Bucksimp said:
Can anybody explain to me why a town like Burnley has, in the past, and currently, been able to provide tip flight football for it's populace and a City like Lincoln has peaked out at the second tier. Given that it was us or them going out of the league on the final day in 1987. If we were Burnley I don't think anyone would be questioning our fans' commitment.
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I can't answer your question, but it is one that I have often given thought to. Why, for example, have Barnsley, Rotherham and a host of other clubs in similar sized towns performed better in the Football League than we have over the last 50 years? When you look at the crowd attendances when we were first back in the old Division 2 in the 1950s they were often around the 15,000 mark, so the notion that Lincoln is not a football City doesn't stand scrutiny in my opinion.
On a number of occasions this City and the wider county of Lincolnshire have shown that there is a hunger and an appetite to support a well run, well managed football club, that has the vision and a desire to be the best that we can be. I see examples of this as the fact that for many a year we held the attendance record for what is now the National League (and still would if the real attendance figure for the Wycombe game was ever published), we got over crowds of over 10,000 in to see us play pretty meaningless friendly matches against Newcastle and Liverpool, and we somehow had our record ever attendance of over 23,000 against Derby County when we were a 4th, yes 4th Division Club, and that was the year after we had finished bottom of the entire Football League!
The potential for Lincoln City, therefore, as an established League 1 (Division 3, whatever you want to call it) club is clear for all to see. For some reason, though, this potential had not been spotted. As a result, the fan base and the pride in the club had virtually vanished into nothing, resulting in our second relegation to non-league football.
Memories are still fresh at this club amongst a lot of the fans of the trauma caused by that second relegation. Despite all the recent success we have had, though, it seems to me that there is still a fear, an anxiety, of returning to those days. Previous managers who had achieved success with this club were soon snapped up by "bigger" clubs, and the clubs fortunes faded as a result. Whereas the DNA of some clubs, like Wimbledon, for example, is all about fight and survive, the DNA of this club, for many a year, has been about anxiety, and that is a very limiting emotion to experience and I think this is what Clive is picking up on at the moment in its many and varied manifestations.
For it to take a non English national to spot the potential that Lincoln City has does not surprise me. That baton has now been picked up by an American. For that I am eternally grateful, as I was beginning to wonder if anyone would in my lifetime. The greatest gift that we, as a fan base, can give Clive, Liam, the MA and the players, is to put our anxiety to one side and look at the bigger picture and help them to irrevocably change the DNA of this club and its supporters (probably the hardest and most difficult task that they have, far more difficult in my opinion than trying to squeeze a few more seats into Sincil Bank here and there). We need to offer our support in any way we can to show that we are side to side with them in the vision for our club. If we can do that then not only will we secure the immediate future of the club on the field, but on it and off it to for years to come. This is the chance of a lifetime for this club, let's not lose it through short sighted, short term thinking.
 
Everyone has different circumstances. For me, my job can be very stressful and it's nice to look forward to Lincoln playing at the weekend. Unfortunately, lots of performances this season have dampened my enthusiasm for watching, probably more so because I've listened to the worryingly inaccurate post-match assessments from the players and manager this season. I actually regained some enthusiasm from the MK Dons game because at least there was actually some attacking football and a bit of desire on show. At no point do I feel any frustration with any board members, nor have I felt tempted to boo but a bit of self reflection/ apologies from the manager for awful to watch performances in many games would have been appreciated.
 
You can use as many football cliches as you like, but the reality is fairly straightforward.
You either understand football or you don't.
Our current form has created a divided fanbase.
I think the majority of the fans understand that this kind of thing happens, and to be fair you kind of accept it.
I've actually said quite recently I like a relegation battle. It brings out a fans true passion.
It's the fair weathers and plastics that dont get it.
Sometimes in life you can have too much of a good thing.
Every now and then you need a bit of adversity to make things real. Lincoln city fans have been in a 5 year bubble. Unfortunately the bubble has burst and it's how we deal with it going forward, that will be the true test of the fanbase the club has built up.

As the song goes where were you when you were shit..
Proper football fans know the score
 
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