What's the point? | Vital Football

What's the point?

SAToffeeImp

Vital Youth Team
It's great to be home in mostly sunny Johannesburg. Four weeks away is a very long time especially in current circumstances. It was extremely important to get over and see key people face-to-face for the first time in 21 months and to meet Harvey and his family and Landon for the first time. But it wasn't what I would describe as an enjoyable trip - Omicron breaking the day I arrived, crap weather, getting put on antibiotics after getting sick, endless Covid tests, not seeing us win and probably being overly cautious in avoiding various situations such as even visiting the EPC while players and staff were around.

But to the point of this thread. I have for obvious reasons limited my reading of posts on social media for a while now but decided in the last few days to catch up on the mood out there. I wouldn't say I am surprised by what I read other than seeing how some long term fans are giving up on attending games or even watching us on iFollow. Unfortunately it confirms what I have been told via personal/direct messages and it does amaze me. How do I get my head around a fan, who watched the team at it's worst times in non-league, now telling me he could not be bothered to come watch us against Hartlepool because he wouldn't enjoy it? That together with a post from clanfordimp (quoted below) sparked that thought, What's the point?

"Yeah I totally get that it's all about money and it's a very fine balancing act but if I thought we were just a club that was just loaning a couple of Prem U/23 players then just trying to produce another couple of players to sell for 500 grand without having the ambition to move up the ladder ourselves then I would think what's the point.

It's up to the chairman and the rest of the investors to show us that this is not the case but on the other hand I also do understand the kind of ridiculous money it takes just to get you anywhere near to challenging just to get out of this league never mind establish yourself in the Championship."

I only got involved to the extent I did because I believed there was the possibility to progress the club and the response of the fans to our early success was a major part of that. It's just too much time, effort and money from where I live for it to be any other way. I believe there is still that possibility under the current ownership structure but not if a significant number of fans ditch us so quickly at the first sign of difficulty.

So what is the point? Does it mean simply mean having the ambition to move up the ladder as quickly as possible to keep the majority of fans on board? If so, we need a different type of ownership structure although having said that even Brighton and Brentford with billionaire owners had a period near the bottom of the table a season after finishing in the play-offs.

I suppose it surprises me considering the club's history that there is already such extreme entitlement. I thought there was a lot more substance to what we stood for in the community and that there would be a lot more patience from fans to try build a sustainable club considering that just a short while ago we were a lower half National League club and that 18 months ago we started the season with the primary objective of surviving the effects of Covid.

Unfortunately the current reality is that it's not just up to the Chairman and investors to show ambition. It's a two-way street under the current model and board where only a limited few have the ability/desire to currently invest and those that do still have to fund the entitled ones from the past.
 
Wow I cannot believe people have been stopping going to games and giving up And then even getting in contact with Clive to tell him. I know circumstances and life changes but to stop going as we’ve hit a difficult spell is in my opinion ridiculous.

I’ve been going since the mid 80’s and in the dark days me and my dad has a row of seats to ourselves in the coop stand.

I can’t say I’m currently enjoying this season but nothing would stop me from supporting the team which is in my blood.

I hope these people are in the minority as surely supporting a club is not about winning each week as very few clubs will ever reach those heights being so dominant.

Keep your head high Mr Chairman and hopefully the vocal ones are in the minority and the majority are going to stick with it.
 
This site is not the not the place for me anymore . The negativity is tiresome. I am struggling with it . Incredible to read a post the other day suggesting that £10 pounds was a waste of money to watch the Imps on I follow at Rotherham . If Lincoln City are a waste of time why spend so much of it on this site? I remain a true Imp and have faith we will overcome this difficult period .Up the Imps Mr Nates !
 
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I suppose it surprises me considering the club's history that there is already such extreme entitlement.

It's a harsh lesson I imagine, but it just pops the myth that the supporters of some football clubs are in some way "better" than others. When the chips are down they're all the same, no matter which club it is - and you can apply that across borders as well.

If you were putting your money into English football I still think you were better putting it into a club where there was a strong sense of community, regardless of the affinity you had built up over the years with Lincoln City, but what can any of us suggest?

The other day when Leeds United had lost heavily at Man City and were getting hammered at home by Arsenal a friend remarked to me how wonderful the Leeds fans were for their tremendous vocal support. All I could say in reply was let's see how great they are when they've had a couple of months of that.
 
It's great to be home in mostly sunny Johannesburg. Four weeks away is a very long time especially in current circumstances. It was extremely important to get over and see key people face-to-face for the first time in 21 months and to meet Harvey and his family and Landon for the first time. But it wasn't what I would describe as an enjoyable trip - Omicron breaking the day I arrived, crap weather, getting put on antibiotics after getting sick, endless Covid tests, not seeing us win and probably being overly cautious in avoiding various situations such as even visiting the EPC while players and staff were around.

But to the point of this thread. I have for obvious reasons limited my reading of posts on social media for a while now but decided in the last few days to catch up on the mood out there. I wouldn't say I am surprised by what I read other than seeing how some long term fans are giving up on attending games or even watching us on iFollow. Unfortunately it confirms what I have been told via personal/direct messages and it does amaze me. How do I get my head around a fan, who watched the team at it's worst times in non-league, now telling me he could not be bothered to come watch us against Hartlepool because he wouldn't enjoy it? That together with a post from clanfordimp (quoted below) sparked that thought, What's the point?

"Yeah I totally get that it's all about money and it's a very fine balancing act but if I thought we were just a club that was just loaning a couple of Prem U/23 players then just trying to produce another couple of players to sell for 500 grand without having the ambition to move up the ladder ourselves then I would think what's the point.

It's up to the chairman and the rest of the investors to show us that this is not the case but on the other hand I also do understand the kind of ridiculous money it takes just to get you anywhere near to challenging just to get out of this league never mind establish yourself in the Championship."

I only got involved to the extent I did because I believed there was the possibility to progress the club and the response of the fans to our early success was a major part of that. It's just too much time, effort and money from where I live for it to be any other way. I believe there is still that possibility under the current ownership structure but not if a significant number of fans ditch us so quickly at the first sign of difficulty.

So what is the point? Does it mean simply mean having the ambition to move up the ladder as quickly as possible to keep the majority of fans on board? If so, we need a different type of ownership structure although having said that even Brighton and Brentford with billionaire owners had a period near the bottom of the table a season after finishing in the play-offs.

I suppose it surprises me considering the club's history that there is already such extreme entitlement. I thought there was a lot more substance to what we stood for in the community and that there would be a lot more patience from fans to try build a sustainable club considering that just a short while ago we were a lower half National League club and that 18 months ago we started the season with the primary objective of surviving the effects of Covid.

Unfortunately the current reality is that it's not just up to the Chairman and investors to show ambition. It's a two-way street under the current model and board where only a limited few have the ability/desire to currently invest and those that do still have to fund the entitled ones from the past.


Thanks @SAToffeeImp for your post, I hope it helps setting the perspective for some supporters.

As living in Salford with moning Man Utd fans around I get to appreciate what you, the club and the fans have achieved in our recent history.
 
I find the tone of Clive’s post extremely concerning, but to be fair I don’t blame him. How frustrating must it be to throw your hard earned money and time at a club that at that time in history was on its knees, with the only personal gain of being able to say ‘I’m the chairman of a football club’. We are a fairly unique club, because in Clive Nates we have a chairman ‘who gets it’, a true football fan who gets in the stands with the fans, not as some token gesture, not as a PR stunt, no he did and does it because he loves it, it’s where he feels most comfortable. Lose Clive Nates and the extraordinary collection of directors he’s gathered around him at your peril. Let this post be a warning shot, the wake up call an ever increasing group of ‘entitled’ fans need.
Clive, I’ll speak for myself here, thank you for what you have done and continue to do for LCFC 👍
 
I don't see too may "entitled" fans on here. Maybe they're on other forms of social media that I don't use.

This is a message-board for fans. It will have on it the endlessly positive, the endlessly negative and everyone in between.

And none of it should be taken too seriously by anyone.
 
I think any proper supporter of the club, would be more than happy with where we are. (apart from immediately after another defeat, which is only human). Would you rather be challenging for promotion from the National League or fighting a relegation battle in Division 1. The ambition of our chairman has got us this far and realistically, its about as high up the pyramid you could expect. I'm proud that we are in safe hands and being run within our means. The lovely passing style of football Michael Appleton is trying to play is also a big plus for me. I don't want us to be Gillingham.
We are a club that has had very little success to crow about in my lifetime. So for me, the last 5 years have been amazing. In fact the most successful 5 years in the clubs history. Lincoln City have put Lincoln back on the map.
Keep it up Clive. Ups and downs of running a football club. "Illegitimi non carborundum".
 
I don't see too may "entitled" fans on here. Maybe they're on other forms of social media that I don't use.

This is a message-board for fans. It will have on it the endlessly positive, the endlessly negative and everyone in between.

And none of it should be taken too seriously by anyone.

you are also forgetting to be a lincoln city fan there is a prerequisite to be a grumpy bastard especially after a defeat.

everyone in here is appreciative of the investment made by the board especially as this is something 99% of us can’t do even though I am sure we would all love to do.

i hope when you return Clive you come back in great health and bring the good weather with you!
 
Clive, thank you for your brutal honesty and interaction on this forum. We are very fortunate to have a Chairman who communicates with us so directly. You don't have to, but you do, and that speaks volumes.

I shall only speak for myself, and it won't change anything, but I don't think my sentiments are unique, despite some of the doom-mongering that apparently exists on social media. Although, I think Notty is correct, most on this forum are fans first and last, and pretty reasonable, although we have a few who seem to want to tear down rather than get behind the club.

First, I think it is important to separate out any comments during match threads, when we concede like we have done in matches agains MK Dons, and Cheltenham, it's a kick in the guts and people are human. But in post-match analysis and threads like this communication can reveal what a fan thinks.

Prior to iFollow, whenever I returned to Lincoln I would always take in as many matches as my trip would allow, mostly non-league, but it didn't matter. I had to get to Sincil Bank and catch the Imps, call it tradition, family bonding, whatever, I was fan as a boy, a fan in exile, and I'm a fan now. I'll be a fan tomorrow, and now I can watch every match on iFollow (EFL only though let's see what we can do about the FA cup :) ).

In my own work I have to build systems within complex organizations with a ton of regulations that constrict what may be possible. One thing I know is that it takes time, failures are a necessary precursor to success, and you need the support of senior administration. With that perspective in mind, I couldn't be happier with where Lincoln are as a club right now (notwithstanding obvious comments about league position) because I see systems and infrastructure being built, I understand where we were a few short years ago, and know that League position is but one measure of success, and perhaps not even the most important one.

We have a chairman that connects with the fans, we have new investors on board who by all accounts seem to be exactly the type of investors we want to attract, we have a manager who clearly has the team behind him and who, up to this point, is devoid of scandals, is respectful to the fans, and plays an attractive style of football that is great entertainment. We have investment in the facilities, and in 2021 have achieved the highest league position I have seen in my lifetime. We cannot compete with some of the budgets in this league and that will have consequences, but we are building, and in the right way. As a fan who gives my money to watch games I expect that, and I expect commitment. As a fan, I do not have a divine right for Lincoln to be in the playoffs or promoted. As a fan I have an obligation, I think, to get behind the club and support them through good and bad times. Luckily we are in a good time right now, again despite the League position.

If you've made it this far in my post thank you and I'll conclude by saying I have an expectation that we will fight like hell the relegation battle that we appear to be in, but regardless of whether that is successful, I will be there this season, the next, and the one after that. Don't let them get to you Clive, the club is in a great position. Entitlement is an unfortunate trait of the current world I am afraid and it would appear some Lincoln fans seem to want to voice their own entitlements. I think, and hope, that they are in the minority and perhaps my own reflections are shared by others.
 
Yes me too. This message from the chairman has given me the conviction [ maybe even the courage]to post again on here .

I don't post as much except during match threads due to work circumstance, but I will say the forum is weaker when you are not chiming in oldgaurd. Your posts frequently cut through the BS and are much appreciated. Hope you can jump in a bit more.
 
Lincoln city is in my blood, as long as I can watch lincoln I will do.

Most football fans like a moan, that won't change.

We had a very successful period over a short amount of time where we picked up significant supporters, they may be less inclined to stay around when it gets tough. That said, I've spoken to some that just love it, the whole match day experience.

I am forever grateful for what Clive and Co have put in to lincoln in terms of time and investment. I have completed faith in them. To take us from visiting places like North Ferriby to the stadium of light was unimaginable.
 
My son and I are both season ticket holders and have been pretty much every year since 2003 at the start of Keith Alexander's second stint as manager. Prior to that, we would attend whenever possible, bearing in mind we live about 65 miles from the ground. Some home games this season, we haven't been able to attend for good reason but we pay the £10 (each) to watch on i-Follow, thus giving the club extra funds. Even during the 'wilderness years' in the Conference, we would be there, home and (whenever possible) away, to support the club, the manager, the players and the backroom staff. We do not intend that changing any time soon. My point being, Clive, that you have two fully committed supporters down here who admire your efforts and those of the manager and players. A decent run in the new year will, hopefully, materialise leaving us in a good place to plan for next season.
As for any so-called fan who turns his or her back on the club right now, shame on you!
 
Personally I've not enjoyed many games this season, the football has been pretty poor as have the results. This isn't new to me. In my 24 years of supporting Lincoln it's been mostly bad with a few small bits of 'success' up until the current regime took over and we had success beyond what we could've realistically hoped for.

I've also found the recruitment frustrating this year, in my opinion we've too many of the same type of player and our lack of physicality and experience is costing us. Again poor recruitment is nothing new. We've had hundreds of dreadful players over the years, far worse than any here now. Even though in my opinion some of the players aren't good enough, I understand why they were brought here and what we're trying to achieve. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

As for supporters moaning, that will never stop! Here or anywhere else. What I would say it's that there were 8000 home fans in on Boxing Day despite the fact that it's Christmas, it was a fairly unattractive fixture and covid is rife. That suggests to me that even though there may be a few vocal dissenters the vast majority are still well behind the club, especially the leadership.
 
It's great to be home in mostly sunny Johannesburg. Four weeks away is a very long time especially in current circumstances. It was extremely important to get over and see key people face-to-face for the first time in 21 months and to meet Harvey and his family and Landon for the first time. But it wasn't what I would describe as an enjoyable trip - Omicron breaking the day I arrived, crap weather, getting put on antibiotics after getting sick, endless Covid tests, not seeing us win and probably being overly cautious in avoiding various situations such as even visiting the EPC while players and staff were around.

But to the point of this thread. I have for obvious reasons limited my reading of posts on social media for a while now but decided in the last few days to catch up on the mood out there. I wouldn't say I am surprised by what I read other than seeing how some long term fans are giving up on attending games or even watching us on iFollow. Unfortunately it confirms what I have been told via personal/direct messages and it does amaze me. How do I get my head around a fan, who watched the team at it's worst times in non-league, now telling me he could not be bothered to come watch us against Hartlepool because he wouldn't enjoy it? That together with a post from clanfordimp (quoted below) sparked that thought, What's the point?

"Yeah I totally get that it's all about money and it's a very fine balancing act but if I thought we were just a club that was just loaning a couple of Prem U/23 players then just trying to produce another couple of players to sell for 500 grand without having the ambition to move up the ladder ourselves then I would think what's the point.

It's up to the chairman and the rest of the investors to show us that this is not the case but on the other hand I also do understand the kind of ridiculous money it takes just to get you anywhere near to challenging just to get out of this league never mind establish yourself in the Championship."

I only got involved to the extent I did because I believed there was the possibility to progress the club and the response of the fans to our early success was a major part of that. It's just too much time, effort and money from where I live for it to be any other way. I believe there is still that possibility under the current ownership structure but not if a significant number of fans ditch us so quickly at the first sign of difficulty.

So what is the point? Does it mean simply mean having the ambition to move up the ladder as quickly as possible to keep the majority of fans on board? If so, we need a different type of ownership structure although having said that even Brighton and Brentford with billionaire owners had a period near the bottom of the table a season after finishing in the play-offs.

I suppose it surprises me considering the club's history that there is already such extreme entitlement. I thought there was a lot more substance to what we stood for in the community and that there would be a lot more patience from fans to try build a sustainable club considering that just a short while ago we were a lower half National League club and that 18 months ago we started the season with the primary objective of surviving the effects of Covid.

Unfortunately the current reality is that it's not just up to the Chairman and investors to show ambition. It's a two-way street under the current model and board where only a limited few have the ability/desire to currently invest and those that do still have to fund the entitled ones from the past.
This needs to be on twitter, facebook etc
The I told you Appleton rubbish and I never rated him brigade need to read this.
Be careful what you wish for.

Great post Clive.
 
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I'll post it yet again, because apparently some people just cannot see it..

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Sincilbanks

Aug 31, 2021
#310


In league 1 we cannot afford to compete for players who will provide on-field success as soon as they come into the team, any attempt to do that risks the entire future of the club. We can probably afford a spine of a squad that can compete immediately at this level (3 or 4 players?) After those players are signed the only way we can have any on-field success and remain remotely viable is to develop players who have the raw attributes to be able to play at this level and then coach them to be able to perform consistently at this level.

Once we have developed them and showcased their talent playing for us it is absolutely inevitable that the reality of football takes over and those players are either sold or (the worst case scenario) see out their contracts and leave for nothing to get a much better pay day somewhere else.

We were the only "small" team in the division last year to make the play-offs and that in a year with even some remote level of salary cap, this year onwards the job to compete just gets financially more and more difficult. The mere fact we are in League 1 for the 3rd season in a row and expectations are to make the play-offs is a minor miracle in itself and (in my opinion) should be judged as a massive piece of success for our "on-field results". We're a tiny fish swimming in a massive ocean and we need to get used to it...