E
exiled tic
Guest
Agree about Garner against Cardiff,lets hope he is fit for Saturday!
Tick Tock!
- Thread starter Stormin' Norman
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Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
Some folk are missing the point. He’s not being judged on 4 games, he’s being judged on last season as well, the majority of which was shite. Sadly there is no evidence of improvement, the two away games have been beyond woeful and this record is unsustainable.
Roy Race
Vital Reserves Team
Whilst I'm quickly losing confidence in Cook I'm with Moonay that it is much too early to pull the trigger.
No doubt IEC and the Royles will have less patience this year and if we are still in this position come October, for example, Cook will be fired and I wouldn't argue with the decision at that point.
What amuses me is that many fans seem to want us to switch from a manager they see as negative and a purveyor of the long ball game to other managers who sing from the same hymn sheet and don't win that many more, if any more, games. Might as well go the whole hog and get Pulis himself in.
In my humble opinion, IF Cook is sacked we should do our homework and go for a quality foreign coach because no matter what anyone says they are, on the whole, better than the majority of coaches we produce.
However, we all know that it's Latics and its odds on we'll end up with Unsworth and at that point, as the Bootlegger guy says on twitter "my spidey senses tell me it's gonna get f***in tasty" on here with the amount of moaning that will go on.
No doubt IEC and the Royles will have less patience this year and if we are still in this position come October, for example, Cook will be fired and I wouldn't argue with the decision at that point.
What amuses me is that many fans seem to want us to switch from a manager they see as negative and a purveyor of the long ball game to other managers who sing from the same hymn sheet and don't win that many more, if any more, games. Might as well go the whole hog and get Pulis himself in.
In my humble opinion, IF Cook is sacked we should do our homework and go for a quality foreign coach because no matter what anyone says they are, on the whole, better than the majority of coaches we produce.
However, we all know that it's Latics and its odds on we'll end up with Unsworth and at that point, as the Bootlegger guy says on twitter "my spidey senses tell me it's gonna get f***in tasty" on here with the amount of moaning that will go on.
walgarthjohn
Vital 1st Team Regular
I have never been a Cook fan think he is a nice bloke But in this league you need to be a pro .... And not one of the lads never liked him after the fans forum when he just laughed when asked about the away form
jocklatic
Vital 1st Team Regular
moonay
Vital Football Legend
But that's where we obviously disagree then MiW.
Last season away was awful.
Last season at home pointwise was quite (if not very) good. Performance wise, I suppose its more subjective.
Beating Cardiff, and then a spirited performance by ten men against Leeds offers a little hope.
August. Bloody August.
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
Personally I would have dispensed with his services toward the end of last season before the miracle of Elland Road. Having kept us up I concede a change would have been harsh at that point and the hope would be lessons have been learnt. Two away performances since that have been extremely poor, beyond excusable, suggest they haven’t. Nigh on every goal conceded is identical, we’ve scored in one half of football. The style is now distinctly route one and we can’t even get that right. As I say this form is unsustainable and the club should be quietly looking for alternatives.
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
For me it should be noisily looking for alternatives.
One of the club seniors need to have a word in Cooks shell like in the meantime.
If we go balls out for the win at QPR and get beat fair do's.
If we get a repeat of Nob End, Boro and every away game bar 3 last season just feck him off
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
That's my top 3 choices with Campbell being a decent shout too but for me I'd want the experience at this level if possible. I'll also throw in Nigel Adkins, Oscar Garcia and Gus Poyett. Gary Bowyer currently at Bradford I always think is criminally under rated too. Karanka and Jokanovic I'd love but imagine both too expensive.
I know many folks will turn their nose up at them but I'd take Moyes or Pulis or maybe even Mark Hughes or Martin O'Neil if we got desperate. I think they are not perfect but for me they are better than what we have.
Bruce could be available soon also...
Some excellent managers avaliable and i expect Huddersfield and Stoke will sack their manager soon and take some of the above plus there will be others too so I'd act sooner rather than later. I don't want to end up holding off too long and scraping the barrell like we did with Caldwell and sacking him and ending up with Joyce. Or ending up like Ipswich when they failed to sack Hurst early enough and whoever came in had too big of a mountain to climb.
I'd have personally sacked Cook at the end of last season as I thought we were lucky to survive in a lot of ways and feared the minor miracle at the end was a good blip rather than the new norm. But with the end of season form and performances being good after IEC showing faith in Cook when we were terrible it was clear they would give him the start of this seaon. Which is understandable so i just hoped their faith would be rewarded and give Cook the benefit of the doubt especially after what looked like a good window. But the few performances this season have already eroded much of the benefit of the doubt for me - we seem to have got worse rather than learned anything unfortunately. I think Cook won't get any more benefit of the doubt from the owners if he doesnt produce wins and performances immediately after they backed him heavily in the market.
We've got 2 winnable games including what has to be a home banker against Barnsley before the international break - he will certainly get those 2 games no matter what. If he fails to win either and performances are poor we will very likely be in the bottom 3 and he'll be probably gone. His fate is in his own hands our squad is overall decent the opposition are going to be beatable if he can perform as a manager and pick up the points and produce the performances then IEC won't need to do anything but if he can't then they will almost certainly act.
IEC are upgrading everything about the club but ultimately the most important person at any clubs is the manager and we seemingly haven't got a good one for this level and there is a lot of good options available who would be a giant step up. We financially can't afford to go down from IECs perspective so I wouldn't expect them to be anywhere near as forgiving and patient as they were last season after this summers spending.
I don't understand why people put time scales on a manger in terms of months as if we say give him until Christmas that is about 23 games. We all know if any manager loses half of that number in a row they'll be gone at virtually any club, if they lose even a quarter of that in a row they may even go depending on other factors. The tipping point is always string of results if Cook loses the next 2 that's 6 loses in a row, if at that point we sit in bottom 3, without scoring in those 6 games with worst defence and goal difference in the league and the performances were all poor his position is probably untenable no matter how early in the season it is.
My prediction is we'll lose at QPR and beat Barnsley and Cook will just about do enough to stay and we'll end up repeating a similar pattern and having this same debate again a few games later. Hopefully I'm wrong and Cook will get us 6 points with 2 great performances and kick start our season but personally I think Cook isn't suited to this level from what we've seen overall unfortunately. I think a change will be necessary if we want to avoid being deep in another relegation battle.
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Nah, lets think bigger. Why not approach Hughton? Could be a breath of fresh air. In the last 10 years we have....
Won the FA Cup.
Reached another Semi Final.
Played in Europa League, and were a draw away from a knockout stage meeting with Sevilla.
Been Championship play off semi-finalists.
Won League One twice.
Beat West Ham and Man City in the FA Cup.
Not many clubs can boast these achievements in their history, never mind recent history.
I am not saying we are a sleeping giant, but christ, the potential for us being a succesful club, top 10 Championship and beyond, is certainly there. The problem has been, since Martinez went, we have never had a manager who you could realistically see as taking us that 'next step'. Coyles appontment, I heard from his own mouth, was comical. Announced by Whelan BEFORE he had signed or actually accepted the job! Done up like a kipper you might say, by our then owner. Championship manager at best. Mackay? Dibolical. Rosler? Lower league manager. Joyce? Disaster. Cook? Lower league manager...league one being his level.
So to look higher, Hughton, Moyes, who have actually managed up at that level, and will be keen to get back there, I think thats the key for us. As an outsider, Nigel Pearson has always struck me as a no nonsense manager. Surely wouldnt put up with the definding and things that we have been doing.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
To me it's all about aspirations. If we have none, if we are happy to scrape along as we are as a bottom championship team, maybe surviving, maybe not then by all means stick with Cook. If we prefer to look upwards and possibilities then he's not the man. All of us are on the see-saw again albeit with different tipping points.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
Careful, a regular poster said that a couple of years ago about Joyce, two days later he was potted, lets hope lightning does strike twice.[/QUOTE]
Well remembered grip . Norm wasn't around 2 years ago.
Lazysid
Vital 1st Team Regular
Won the FA Cup. = Martinez
Reached another Semi Final. = Rosler
Played in Europa League, and were a draw away from a knockout stage meeting with Sevilla. = Coyle
Been Championship play off semi-finalists. = Rosler
Won League One twice. = Caldwell & Cook
Beat West Ham and Man City in the FA Cup = Cook
and the same folks who constantly bleat about Cook whenever we lose 3 on the bounce are the same ones who bleated about getting rid of all of the above Managers.
mightytics
Vital Reserves Team
Manager merry go round is not the answer but fully agree performances have to change ..
Captain Kernow
Vital Youth Team
I like Cook and I would say he needs time to set it right. Bristol city were in a similar postion a couple of years ago as they spent a bit of money in developing a new side form their League one winning team and Lee Johnson was under fire for a slow start to the season with many fans using the same arguments we are seeing here. He was given the time to put it right and now they'll probably be play offs this season and dark horses for promotion.
Cook doesn't get a free pass from me and needs to seriously address away form and the amount of injuies we seem to pick up but I wouldn't advocate replacing him before he's a had a good run of fixtures with essentially a new side.
Cook doesn't get a free pass from me and needs to seriously address away form and the amount of injuies we seem to pick up but I wouldn't advocate replacing him before he's a had a good run of fixtures with essentially a new side.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
Although I am not saying Marshall is without blame, he has hardly been protected by the defence. Having watched the goals back the problem for me is that the left/right backs are not preventing the crosses and the central defenders are all at sea when these crosses come in.
The solution is to prevent the crosses. Morsy and Evans are too central in the system and when the full backs move forward are not moving wide to cover. If we are to persist in using Robinson and Byrne as wing backs or wingers then we need to cover their runs.
To continually blame the central defenders is in my opinion wrong. If you watch back the goal on Tuesday Assombalonga got a free run on Kipre, Byrne was standing on the edge of the box having just got back from a run, no one picked the forward up. If Evans had covered Byrne then the goal could have been prevented.
I am not a coach, but this seems obvious to me, so I would imagine the coaching staff have seen this as well and will be looking to put this right.
strapworld
Vital Newbie
Paul Jewell Director of Football ?
There are so many out of work managers. PNE manager was hopeless at Norwich but he has got PNE buzzing. We need a manager with sound ideas and good knowledge of the Championship and Premiership. Someone with a record of bring good youngsters through. Cook has an obvious aversion to using youngsters. Need a man who has coaching staff who do not create more problems, like the constant injuries during the Cook regime.
“Cook is a good man, well liked etc etc” is certainly no argument for keeping him in the job. Was Fergie liked? No and this other nonsense that times are changed and you cannot treat players like they used to. Are those people suggesting No discipline? That is so stupid it is beyond ridiculous.
The team are playing like a very unhappy group of individuals. COOK has to go.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
I hear the 'new side' argument but it's not a new side in the 4 league games the number of new players in the staring line up were:
Cardiff - 2
Preston - 2
Leeds - 3
Boro - 3
And it's not as if the new signings were the worst players on the pitch in each game - most of the players from last season have been the worst performers while 2 of the newbies in Moore and Lowe have shown more promise than the rest. It's the same back 4 as last season and it's been diabolical - people are very critical of Marshall but he's been given no protection either.
Every single team in the league has new signings in their starting 11 it's nothing like Caldwells first game in charge when we had 13 debuts and everyone was learning where they fit. We had 1 new outfield player against Preston and 2 against Boro and the players who've been playing together for up to 2 years in some cases looked like they had no idea what their jobs were.
We can't use the new players excuse for just playing rubbish.
