Tick Tock! | Page 5 | Vital Football

Tick Tock!

96Tav said:
Nah, lets think bigger. Why not approach Hughton? Could be a breath of fresh air. In the last 10 years we have....

Won the FA Cup.
Reached another Semi Final.
Played in Europa League, and were a draw away from a knockout stage meeting with Sevilla.
Been Championship play off semi-finalists.
Won League One twice.
Beat West Ham and Man City in the FA Cup.

Not many clubs can boast these achievements in their history, never mind recent history.
I am not saying we are a sleeping giant, but christ, the potential for us being a succesful club, top 10 Championship and beyond, is certainly there. The problem has been, since Martinez went, we have never had a manager who you could realistically see as taking us that 'next step'. Coyles appontment, I heard from his own mouth, was comical. Announced by Whelan BEFORE he had signed or actually accepted the job! Done up like a kipper you might say, by our then owner. Championship manager at best. Mackay? Dibolical. Rosler? Lower league manager. Joyce? Disaster. Cook? Lower league manager...league one being his level.

So to look higher, Hughton, Moyes, who have actually managed up at that level, and will be keen to get back there, I think thats the key for us. As an outsider, Nigel Pearson has always struck me as a no nonsense manager. Surely wouldnt put up with the definding and things that we have been doing.
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Chris Hughton was interviewed by Wigan before he got the Brighton job. The Chip Shop Failure turned him down.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Although I am not saying Marshall is without blame, he has hardly been protected by the defence. Having watched the goals back the problem for me is that the left/right backs are not preventing the crosses and the central defenders are all at sea when these crosses come in.

The solution is to prevent the crosses. Morsy and Evans are too central in the system and when the full backs move forward are not moving wide to cover. If we are to persist in using Robinson and Byrne as wing backs or wingers then we need to cover their runs.

To continually blame the central defenders is in my opinion wrong. If you watch back the goal on Tuesday Assombalonga got a free run on Kipre, Byrne was standing on the edge of the box having just got back from a run, no one picked the forward up. If Evans had covered Byrne then the goal could have been prevented.

I am not a coach, but this seems obvious to me, so I would imagine the coaching staff have seen this as well and will be looking to put this right.
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Well spotted, Cook always plays midfield very narrow which invites the opposition fullbacks to get forward and cross unchallenged time and time again, it was a problem all last season as either full back is outnumbered covering the left winger and full back alone most of the time. In L1 we did it too but Burn and Dunkley were so dominent that it was rarely an issue but at this level it's killing us. When we defend we need to be more like 2 banks of 4 so the full backs have proper support and we just don't do that and if we haven't addressed it by now i'm not sure the coaching staff are looking at it.

Morsy and Evans ball watch horribly when the ball goes wide and the cross is delivered they don't track late runners from midfield getting into the box for the second ball. And the whole back 4 seem to be unable to cope with handing over marking responsibility, it seems like if Dunkley has to come accross to cover for Byrne say and leave his man to deal with the imminent threat Fox doesn't come over to pick up Dunkley man and Robinson shift over to cover Fox. It seems like if you peel off one of our defenders you get a guarenteed free header as there is no communication or understanding of handing over of marking responsibilities.

I dont think the issue is the players aren't capable i just dont think they are organised very well at all. It reminds me of when we had Chris Hutchings and our defence was all over the place - they couldn't do the basics right and when Bruce came in and had the same players they became solid virtually immedietely - the only differnce was the quality of the coaching. I genuinely think if someone with strong defensive fundementals like Bruce came in now he'd have the same players organised and water tight no problem. We've seen it time and time again that even with average players if they are well drilled they can be very difficult to score against but we are just relying on individual players ability as defenders rather than having any genuine defensive cohesion.
 
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Some very good points TB and kdz. I was thinking the same myself.
I suggested earlier that maybe Cook needs to bring in a defensive coach to help solve our frailties.
 
Yon Mon said:
Some very good points TB and kdz. I was thinking the same myself.
I suggested earlier that maybe Cook needs to bring in a defensive coach to help solve our frailties.
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I would have thought we already had a coach to concentrate on defensive duties but it looks as though he is not up to the task.
 
Organization is definitely a problem undercook, Dunkley and Kipre have shown they are extremely solid in the air, but it seems like there is huge gaps, with the other team having an abundance of space without any sort of pressure when putting a ball in.

One moment from the Boro game is one of there players got the ball from 30 yards out in the centre, with no support, the whole defence and our two midfields actually went away from him and he just jogged and had a shot from outside the area and it went over (somehow). That to me shows the team have no idea what they are supposed to be doing in them situations. Evans and Morsy are good players, but the way they are being asked to play gives us nothing going forward and much less going back.
 
Can see cook going if we lose saturday i like the fella but i just dont think hes a championship standard manager to many changes and we keep giving awful goals away
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I hear the 'new side' argument but it's not a new side in the 4 league games the number of new players in the staring line up were:
Cardiff - 2
Preston - 2
Leeds - 3
Boro - 3

And it's not as if the new signings were the worst players on the pitch in each game - most of the players from last season have been the worst performers while 2 of the newbies in Moore and Lowe have shown more promise than the rest. It's the same back 4 as last season and it's been diabolical - people are very critical of Marshall but he's been given no protection either.

Every single team in the league has new signings in their starting 11 it's nothing like Caldwells first game in charge when we had 13 debuts and everyone was learning where they fit. We had 1 new outfield player against Preston and 2 against Boro and the players who've been playing together for up to 2 years in some cases looked like they had no idea what their jobs were.

We can't use the new players excuse for just playing rubbish.
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I accept your point about the side not consisting of all new signings but I would point to the fact that the signings that are playing have key roles in the side. We're trying to replace our goalkeeper, best midfielder and best attacker and bed in a new striker. Plus cover our captain in the first game of the season and find a system to complement them. Its not like we are just trying to slot in a couple of new full backs (like last season) which would have a lot less effect on overall performance.

I think Cook has some work to do and Im not trying to excuse the last few weeks, just recognise that it was never going to happen overnight.
 
Yon Mon said:
Some very good points TB and kdz. I was thinking the same myself.
I suggested earlier that maybe Cook needs to bring in a defensive coach to help solve our frailties.
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I am sure someone asked a similar question at fans forum last year and he said he didn't need any extra coaches and we have the knoweldge within the camp already. I am certain if Cook said he needed an extra coach IEC would have accomedated him, but if he doesn't want one then effectively on his head be it as the owners cant force players and staff on a manager without negative consequences.
 
Captain Kernow said:
I accept your point about the side not consisting of all new signings but I would point to the fact that the signings that are playing have key roles in the side. We're trying to replace our goalkeeper, best midfielder and best attacker and bed in a new striker. Plus cover our captain in the first game of the season and find a system to complement them. Its not like we are just trying to slot in a couple of new full backs (like last season) which would have a lot less effect on overall performance.

I think Cook has some work to do and Im not trying to excuse the last few weeks, just recognise that it was never going to happen overnight.
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Could the flip side be that our best midfielder and attacker masked how overall poorly we were coached last term and without 2 such talented players our flaws are now totally exposed?

What we've seen hasn't been bedding in issues it's been really concerning basic stuff which is so alarming.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Could the flip side be that our best midfielder and attacker masked how overall poorly we were coached last term and without 2 such talented players our flaws are now totally exposed?

What we've seen hasn't been bedding in issues it's been really concerning basic stuff which is so alarming.
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It's hard to disagree off the back of what we've seen this season, we know Cook does have it in him though. You dont win back to back titles at different clubs and get the better of Pep if you don't have some tactical nous. He needs to find a system to get the best out of these players quickly and sort out the defence. The next four are all winnable and I think when we're backed into a corner we usually come out fighting.
The last three times we've been in this division we've struggled, the one time we didn't panic and sack the manager we stayed up.
 
FrancosLoveChild said:
Organization is definitely a problem undercook, Dunkley and Kipre have shown they are extremely solid in the air, but it seems like there is huge gaps, with the other team having an abundance of space without any sort of pressure when putting a ball in.

One moment from the Boro game is one of there players got the ball from 30 yards out in the centre, with no support, the whole defence and our two midfields actually went away from him and he just jogged and had a shot from outside the area and it went over (somehow). That to me shows the team have no idea what they are supposed to be doing in them situations. Evans and Morsy are good players, but the way they are being asked to play gives us nothing going forward and much less going back.
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The example you give is not an example of bad coaching. We are talking about players who are playing in the championship. Even kids know that if a player runs at you somebody closes him down. You don't need a defensive coach to tell you that, if you don't know that already you shouldn't be a professional footballer.
 
Roy Race said:
The example you give is not an example of bad coaching. We are talking about players who are playing in the championship. Even kids know that if a player runs at you somebody closes him down. You don't need a defensive coach to tell you that, if you don't know that already you shouldn't be a professional footballer.
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Good thing Im not a professional footballer then mate ;)
 
When I first saw the fixtures I suggested that we may not get our first point until the Barnsley game, so we've already surpassed my expectations thanks entirely to the surprise victory over Cardiff. I would like to think now that over the next 4 games we get a minimum of 7 points. If we do, I'll be reasonably happy, if we don't I'll be disappointed, either way I still wouldn't be in favour of sacking Cook - yet.
 
Arthur_Itis said:
When I first saw the fixtures I suggested that we may not get our first point until the Barnsley game, so we've already surpassed my expectations thanks entirely to the surprise victory over Cardiff. I would like to think now that over the next 4 games we get a minimum of 7 points. If we do, I'll be reasonably happy, if we don't I'll be disappointed, either way I still wouldn't be in favour of sacking Cook - yet.
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You don't speak for the majority, thankfully!
 
Arthur_Itis said:
I knowledge that Norm, thanks for the compliment.
Out of curiosity, What do the majority say ? Do you mean on here or across the entire Wigan fan base ?
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Certainly not on here ffs! It seems like you're happy for us to win our first game and play shite and lose the next three and that surpasses your expectations?
Unbelievable defeatist attitude!
 
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Captain Kernow said:
It's hard to disagree off the back of what we've seen this season, we know Cook does have it in him though. You dont win back to back titles at different clubs and get the better of Pep if you don't have some tactical nous. He needs to find a system to get the best out of these players quickly and sort out the defence. The next four are all winnable and I think when we're backed into a corner we usually come out fighting.
The last three times we've been in this division we've struggled, the one time we didn't panic and sack the manager we stayed up.
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To be fair though the last 3 times we sacked a manager we hired woeful replacements - it wasnt making the change that was the issue just changing to something equally bad if not worse. If we got in Hughton, Monk or Rowett it would be night and day compared to what we've had before and probably what we have.

If you look at Hughton at Brighton and Monk and Rowett with Birmingham they took over at times of relegation crisis and then kept the team up and then the following season it the ground running and drastically improved for just one preseason and the chance to get more of their own players in even under financial difficulties for the latter two. Cook has signed the majority of players we've got now, he's had 2 full seasons to get his ideas accross and it's not showing signs of getting any better. The results are less worrying than the manner of performance this season especially away from home that have drained the benefit of doubt away so quickly and the post match comments after Boro were just salt in the wounds. I don't expect him to publically slate everyone but he was insulting our intelligence or the man is dillusional to say we were 'smashing' in what was one of the worst performances against one of the worst teams we've played in Cooks reign so far. If he came out and said 'no excuses, collectively we weren't good enough tonight - i'm not going to hammer the lads publically but they know that we have to do better' it wouldn't make the performance any better but it would at least be some crumb of minor comfort compared to blowing smoke.

He needs to get a result and a performance against QPR or mental block on winning away and defeatist attitude will be cemented in again and we can't risk having a manager who effectively has to write off all the away games for picking up points.
 
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