Tick Tock! | Page 6 | Vital Football

Tick Tock!

The biggest concern I have is what the style of play has become recently. We’re a long ball team. Both Bolton and Rotherham were last season and went down. We’re very predictable and haven’t looked like scoring in the last few games. Added to that we can’t keep a clean sheet, I’m struggling to see where the next win is coming from. Hope I’m wrong as up until Tuesday I’ve not been one to criticise Cook, I’m just concerned that our current run can’t go on for too long. We need to start picking up more points, especially away from home.
 
To be fair though the last 3 times we sacked a manager we hired woeful replacements - it wasnt making the change that was the issue just changing to something equally bad if not worse. If we got in Hughton, Monk or Rowett it would be night and day compared to what we've had before and probably what we have.

If you look at Hughton at Brighton and Monk and Rowett with Birmingham they took over at times of relegation crisis and then kept the team up and then the following season it the ground running and drastically improved for just one preseason and the chance to get more of their own players in even under financial difficulties for the latter two. Cook has signed the majority of players we've got now, he's had 2 full seasons to get his ideas accross and it's not showing signs of getting any better. The results are less worrying than the manner of performance this season especially away from home that have drained the benefit of doubt away so quickly and the post match comments after Boro were just salt in the wounds. I don't expect him to publically slate everyone but he was insulting our intelligence or the man is dillusional to say we were 'smashing' in what was one of the worst performances against one of the worst teams we've played in Cooks reign so far. If he came out and said 'no excuses, collectively we weren't good enough tonight - i'm not going to hammer the lads publically but they know that we have to do better' it wouldn't make the performance any better but it would at least be some crumb of minor comfort compared to blowing smoke.

He needs to get a result and a performance against QPR or mental block on winning away and defeatist attitude will be cemented in again and we can't risk having a manager who effectively has to write off all the away games for picking up points.

Just going to leave this here (up to date and taken from Wikipedia, so it can be checked). I'll let you all draw your own conclusions

RECORDS AS MANAGERS

Gary Monk P 215 W 84 D 53 L 78 Win % 39.1
Chris Hughton P 446 W 181 D 122 L 143 Win % 40.6
Gary Rowett P 337 W 140 D 96 L 101 Win % 41.5
Paul Cook P 628 W 275 D 157 L 196 Win % 43.8
 
Just going to leave this here (up to date and taken from Wikipedia, so it can be checked). I'll let you all draw your own conclusions

RECORDS AS MANAGERS

Gary Monk P 215 W 84 D 53 L 78 Win % 39.1
Chris Hughton P 446 W 181 D 122 L 143 Win % 40.6
Gary Rowett P 337 W 140 D 96 L 101 Win % 41.5
Paul Cook P 628 W 275 D 157 L 196 Win % 43.8

On that showing Gary Monk who has has a third of Cook’s matches.
Cook has had just over half that of Gary Rowlett
And just less than two hundred more matches than Chris Hughton.
So on a like for like basis Cook is not as good as the figures at first suggest.
Indeed I would say that the three men mentioned would be a far better fit.
 
Strapworld, as logic goes, that's just about the most illogical conclusion one could draw from those stats.

On a "like for like basis", Cook clearly has been/is more likely to win a game than those peers.

Now, if you'd have mentioned the standard at which most of those games were played, you may have had a point.
 
The biggest concern I have is what the style of play has become recently. We’re a long ball team. Both Bolton and Rotherham were last season and went down. We’re very predictable and haven’t looked like scoring in the last few games. Added to that we can’t keep a clean sheet, I’m struggling to see where the next win is coming from. Hope I’m wrong as up until Tuesday I’ve not been one to criticise Cook, I’m just concerned that our current run can’t go on for too long. We need to start picking up more points, especially away from home.

In a nutshell, well said.

Its also the fact that there are a few managers currently available as well. Hughton would definitely be my choice. Monk has something about him, but keeps getting potted before he has had chance.
Tony Pulis will divide people, but he is effective and could stabilize us as a club. Highly experienced, as is Moyes.

I can't honestly see us getting anything tomorrow at QPR, and its almost a given that Jordan Hugill will outstretch our defender and score the winner...it's almost fate, that one. I sense another defeat and another non scoring day, and Cook being potted on Sunday. It will be a bold move by Darren Royle, but 5 none scoring defeats on the bounce will be necessitating a change. And if he survives tomorrow, itll make Barnsley a huge game. A promoted side coming to us, lose that and surely that would be it, for everyones benefit. Our attendance against Leeds had dropped shockingly from the Cardiff game. East stand was so bare.

And lets not let it go so far as Cook is getting abuse from the stands, we don't want that...no good for anyone.
 
Just going to leave this here (up to date and taken from Wikipedia, so it can be checked). I'll let you all draw your own conclusions

RECORDS AS MANAGERS

Gary Monk P 215 W 84 D 53 L 78 Win % 39.1
Chris Hughton P 446 W 181 D 122 L 143 Win % 40.6
Gary Rowett P 337 W 140 D 96 L 101 Win % 41.5
Paul Cook P 628 W 275 D 157 L 196 Win % 43.8

It would be more relevant if you could produce their respective championship stats.
 
Let's face it, we aren't an attractive proposition for any manager with experience at this level. I don't want us to let Cook go, but if it did happen we would need to take a punt on someone unproven.
 
It would be more relevant if you could produce their respective championship stats.
Exactly .......... but given that Cook has just the one season, with a decent home but abysmal away record, it's a little pointless. We already know that Cook's Championship form wouldn't stand comparison, so I don't know why we'd bother.

We either think Cook will turn things around, or we don't.
 
Exactly .......... but given that Cook has just the one season, with a decent home but abysmal away record, it's a little pointless. We already know that Cook's Championship form wouldn't stand comparison, so I don't know why we'd bother.

We either think Cook will turn things around, or we don't.

Do you think he’ll turn things around?
 
It would be more relevant if you could produce their respective championship stats.

If I had the time (and could be arsed) I would. The stats are on Wikipedia so not hard to check. Maybe KDZ could rustle something up.

Incidentally, a simple check on Wikipedia also shows that ON PAPER, over their respective careers Cook also has better records than Moyes, Poyet, Pulis, Adkins, Bruce, Karanka, Hughes and Adkins.

Obviously it's very difficult to compare as all these managers have managed at different levels, had different financial backing, had good/bad squads. We all have views on whether each manager has done a good job but when you look at it in black and white you'd be surprised to see the figures for some. Just helps add to the debate I think.
 
Do you think he’ll turn things around?
I certainly hope he will.

Do I think he will? Well I've got to admit that the Nob End performance and result was disappointing. Stoke, I can write off. Leeds, title favourites and ten men, I can't knock what we did (except for the goals). Didn't see the Boro game, so can't really comment.

I've got to say that I wouldn't have expected us to be nilled in each of those games. I also wouldn't have expected us to concede so many cheap goals. But yes, I think he will. I've no statistical or tactical analysis to support that, but I think between him, the coaching staff and the senior players, there's more than enough nowse and experience there to put things right.
 
Just going to leave this here (up to date and taken from Wikipedia, so it can be checked). I'll let you all draw your own conclusions

RECORDS AS MANAGERS

Gary Monk P 215 W 84 D 53 L 78 Win % 39.1
Chris Hughton P 446 W 181 D 122 L 143 Win % 40.6
Gary Rowett P 337 W 140 D 96 L 101 Win % 41.5
Paul Cook P 628 W 275 D 157 L 196 Win % 43.8

The issue with those stats are Cooks win ratio is bosted by League of Ireland, L2 and L1 campaings while Monk and Hughtons are dragged down by Prem campaigns. The best comparison is just doing Championship only where the difference in quality is mouch more telling.

Gary Monk
Games - 126
Wins - 51
Draws - 34
Loses - 41
Points per game - 1.48
Win Ratio - 41%

Chris Hughton
Games - 206
Wins - 108
Draws - 60
Loses - 38
Points per game - 1.86
Win Ratio - 52%

Gary Rowett
Games - 180
Wins - 71
Draws - 61
Loses - 48
Points per game - 1.52
Win Ratio - 52%

Paul Cook
Games - 50
Wins - 14
Draws - 13
Loses - 23
Points per game - 1.10
Win Ratio - 28%

Cook is the only one who lost more than he won and only just has 1 win more than he drew, while the others have won healthier win to draw ratios. Also worth considering that out of Cooks 14 wins, 5 of them came in the first 10 games of last season when we were riding the motmentum from promotion, once that momentum stalled it's 9 wins from the last 40 league games and dropping to a win ratio of less than 25% which is lower than Joyce.

Even if you take out the better clubs and focus just on teams fighting relegation battles - Rowett, Monk and Hughton all took over relegation clubs at this level and they all out performed Cook and turned the relegation battlers they inherited into promotion challengers the following season and after this summers spending spree probably didn't spend much more, if not less money doing it.

If people think Cook will turn it around that's a case of judgement but the 3 managers mentioned are better than Cook at this level. For me if we could get Hughton or Monk it's absolutely a no brainer that you sack Cook and get them in - they would be significant steps up - just like Cook was a significant step up on Caldwell, Barrow, Malky, Joyce, etc. I believe Cooks has taken us as far as he can and we need to trade up for someone who can take us further if we want to do what IEC need. I'm grateful for his efforts to get us to the point we are at now, but just like Pulis, Allerdyce, Bruce, Warnock, etc all have their limitations - they are brilliant at taking you to their ceiling but then aren't capable of taking any team beyond that (eg promoted but cant keep you up, or prem survival but cant ever push into top half, etc) i think Cooks ceiling is relegation battles in the Championship from what we've seen over the past 50 games and i think we've got a squad capable of mid table mediocrity at least.
 
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I certainly hope he will.

Do I think he will? Well I've got to admit that the Nob End performance and result was disappointing. Stoke, I can write off. Leeds, title favourites and ten men, I can't knock what we did (except for the goals). Didn't see the Boro game, so can't really comment.

I've got to say that I wouldn't have expected us to be nilled in each of those games. I also wouldn't have expected us to concede so many cheap goals. But yes, I think he will. I've no statistical or tactical analysis to support that, but I think between him, the coaching staff and the senior players, there's more than enough nowse and experience there to put things right.

I think King has hit the nail on the head with his post and comment that Cook has reached his ceiling. No shame in that, gratitude for what he’s done but as he points out it’s time to trade up.
 
The issue with those stats are Cooks win ratio is bosted by League of Ireland, L2 and L1 campaings while Monk and Hughtons are dragged down by Prem campaigns. The best comparison is just doing Championship only where the difference in quality is mouch more telling.

Gary Monk
Games - 126
Wins - 51
Draws - 34
Loses - 41
Points per game - 1.48
Win Ratio - 41%

Chris Hughton
Games - 206
Wins - 108
Draws - 60
Loses - 38
Points per game - 1.86
Win Ratio - 52%

Gary Rowett
Games - 180
Wins - 71
Draws - 61
Loses - 48
Points per game - 1.52
Win Ratio - 52%

Paul Cook
Games - 50
Wins - 14
Draws - 13
Loses - 23
Points per game - 1.10
Win Ratio - 28%

Cook is the only one who lost more than he won and only just has 1 win more than he drew, while the others have won healthier win to draw ratios. Also worth considering that out of Cooks 14 wins, 5 of them came in the first 10 games of last season when we were riding the motmentum from promotion, once that momentum stalled it's 9 wins from the last 40 league games and dropping to a win ratio of less than 25% which is lower than Joyce.

Even if you take out the better clubs and focus just on teams fighting relegation battles - Rowett, Monk and Hughton all took over relegation clubs at this level and they all out performed Cook and turned the relegation battlers they inherited into promotion challengers the following season and after this summers spending spree probably didn't spend much more, if not less money doing it.

If people think Cook will turn it around that's a case of judgement but the 3 managers mentioned are better than Cook at this level. For me if we could get Hughton or Monk it's absolutely a no brainer that you sack Cook and get them in - they would be significant steps up - just like Cook was a significant step up on Caldwell, Barrow, Malky, Joyce, etc. I believe Cooks has taken us as far as he can and we need to trade up for someone who can take us further if we want to do what IEC need. I'm grateful for his efforts to get us to the point we are at now, but just like Pulis, Allerdyce, Bruce, Warnock, etc all have their limitations - they are brilliant at taking you to their ceiling but then aren't capable of taking any team beyond that (eg promoted but cant keep you up, or prem survival but cant ever push into top half, etc) i think Cooks ceiling is relegation battles in the Championship from what we've seen over the past 50 games and i think we've got a squad capable of mid table mediocrity at least.

Looking at those figures not sure Rowett's win ratio is 52%.
 
I think King has hit the nail on the head with his post and comment that Cook has reached his ceiling. No shame in that, gratitude for what he’s done but as he points out it’s time to trade up.

We will see, the last few performances have been very poor but so far he's been asked to.......

Season 1 - Get us up - done!
Season 2 - Keep us up - done!
Season 3 - Mid table - Let's see
 
Imagine, you are the Royles.
In your weekly report to the owners, you only have so many excuses before you need to demonstrate what you are doing with action.
Option 1. Resign yourself
Option 2. Make staff changes