Match Thread.

[Red Krayola]

..judging till now...we need at least 10 new players ...of quality...as from the midfield up we have no one...no one that can string three passes in succession...for most of the time Swamsea were taking the piss...even their keeper was passing to his defenders whilst our players tried to press him...somehow we win the ball..nd after two passes the ball return to a white shirt...

But most of the players are comfortable with the ball. They can pass perfectly well. Before AK left, we dominated possession in most games. We tried and often succeeded to play like Swansea did today. The change came when MoN took over...players are being told to play a different way.

 

[Red Krayola]

Swansea were great today...passed us off the the pitch. We were awful...truly shocking.

I felt guilty that we actually won it.

We are turning into Millwall...I don't understand why.

It's not like we're having to play a certain way because we have to make the best out of the players we've got.

We've got a team that can play like Swansea played today...arguably better FFS.

 

[pebble]

But most of the players are comfortable with the ball. They can pass perfectly well. Before AK left, we dominated possession in most games. We tried and often succeeded to play like Swansea did today. The change came when MoN took over...players are being told to play a different way.

Don't think players are being told to pass badly.

There is a change of style, but people are exaggerating it.

Yates has come in and done well, but he was hardly in the game today. Darikwa struggled against a really good winger.

Swansea insisted on playing out from the back and I thought we'd catch them out, but once they got away with a couple of close things they started to pass us off the pitch. I don't see how different personnel would have affected that.

In the end, we won regardless. Finding different ways to win is a positive.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

You still haven't said whether you actually believe we've been the dirtiest team in the league over the past 10 years.

I do think we're comfortably one of the ugliest teams from an ethical stance. Constant cynical fouling, time wasting, diving, haranguing the referee etc. It's been going on for a long time.

Once we has a reputation for good football and behaviour, right now we're seen as an ugly cynical long ball team. By our fans as well as other teams.

It's not why I watch football.

 

[Red Krayola]

Dougie's football was far more effective, cos we had the pace to play proper counter attacking football and was far better than this shite, with a far worse squad!

Exactly! He set us up to make the best of the players he had at his disposal....the opposite is happening now.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Don't think players are being told to pass badly.

There is a change of style, but people are exaggerating it.

Yates has come in and done well, but he was hardly in the game today. Darikwa struggled against a really good winger.

Swansea insisted on playing out from the back and I thought we'd catch them out, but once they got away with a couple of close things they started to pass us off the pitch. I don't see how different personnel would have affected that.

In the end, we won regardless. Finding different ways to win is a positive.

You're the most blinkered dude I've ever met, it was clueless hoofball pure and simple.

If you don't see how different players and different tactics can affect the opposition then wtf. Why even have a manager or a formation or players for that matter.

 

[Red Krayola]

Don't think players are being told to pass badly.

There is a change of style, but people are exaggerating it.

Yates has come in and done well, but he was hardly in the game today. Darikwa struggled against a really good winger.

Swansea insisted on playing out from the back and I thought we'd catch them out, but once they got away with a couple of close things they started to pass us off the pitch. I don't see how different personnel would have affected that.

In the end, we won regardless. Finding different ways to win is a positive.

I'm not saying they're being told to pass badly. That would be ridiculous.

I'm saying that they are being told to play a different way.

If AK was still here, Swansea wouldn't have dominated so much as we would have retained the ball more effectively.

MoN seems to be about getting the ball forward as quickly as possible, even if that means giving possession away.

I'm arguing that we don't need 10 new players, we need a manager or system that makes the best use of our best players...

 

[pebble]

I do think we're comfortably one of the ugliest teams from an ethical stance. Constant cynical fouling, time wasting, diving, haranguing the referee etc. It's been going on for a long time.

Once we has a reputation for good football and behaviour, right now we're seen as an ugly cynical long ball team. By our fans as well as other teams.

It's not why I watch football.

So you've seen nothing of that sort from our opponents?

Strange, because I've seen us as pretty average in terms of the stuff you cite - not perfect, but certainly not 'constant cynical fouling, time wasting, diving, haranguing the referee etc'.

There's a quote from Chinatown where Jack Nicholson is asked whether Lieutenant Escobar is corrupt. He says no - but 'he has to swim in the waters we all do', or something like that.

You completely ignore the waters all football teams have to swim in, which are full of cheating. You gleefully pick out examples of forest players cheating in an amateurish way, but ignore the far more organised and cynical stuff we've seen from opponents.

Fine - if you want to believe we're really that bad because it suits some agenda, go ahead. I've asked you for evidence that we're really as bad as you believe and you offer the fair play league - which I agree looks damning, but doesn't square with what I've seen.

I've repeatedly asked you whether you've actually seen 'constant cynical fouling, time wasting, diving, haranguing the referee etc' from Forest, and not from opponents, but you always duck that question.

I don't actually count you as a Forest fan because we all have some bias towards our own team but most of us (like me) are also prepared to look beyond that. You seem to bend over backwards to absolve other teams of any wrongdoing while exaggerating every Forest misdemeanour.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

So you've seen nothing of that sort from our opponents?

Strange, because I've seen us as pretty average in terms of the stuff you cite - not perfect, but certainly not 'constant cynical fouling, time wasting, diving, haranguing the referee etc'.

There's a quote from Chinatown where Jack Nicholson is asked whether Lieutenant Escobar is corrupt. He says no - but 'he has to swim in the waters we all do', or something like that.

You completely ignore the waters all football teams have to swim in, which are full of cheating. You gleefully pick out examples of forest players cheating in an amateurish way, but ignore the far more organised and cynical stuff we've seen from opponents.

Fine - if you want to believe we're really that bad because it suits some agenda, go ahead. I've asked you for evidence that we're really as bad as you believe and you offer the fair play league - which I agree looks damning, but doesn't square with what I've seen.

I've repeatedly asked you whether you've actually seen 'constant cynical fouling, time wasting, diving, haranguing the referee etc' from Forest, and not from opponents, but you always duck that question.

I don't actually count you as a Forest fan because we all have some bias towards our own team but most of us (like me) are also prepared to look beyond that. You seem to bend over backwards to absolve other teams of any wrongdoing while exaggerating every Forest misdemeanour.

I don't duck it, it's just irrelevant - we have control over our behaviour, not others. Justification for poor conduct because others do it is a refuge of the vigilante thug.

Oh by and large we have been worse, as the tables clearly show. Sorry again for using evidence rather than bias, I appreciate you don't value facts. Cool you don't consider me a Forest fan because I don't make irrational excuses for poor behaviour or performances. I consider you a lickspittle without the wit to differentiate between good and bad. Fandom isn't unquestioning loyalty, that's for the weak minded, incapable of rational analysis.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Mmmm not sure I completely agree. Yes of course losing your best two players has an impact, but I’d go as far as to say that we pretty much rely on Lolley for everything from a goal scoring point of view.

It’s got to a point now where I look about the team and unless somebody gives the ball to Lolley, I’m almost certain that nothing will happen. Im
Not sure that there are many teams in the league who are as reliant on one man as we are.

We have been all season though.

Karanka signed so many attacking players to address this very thing: Grabban, Dias, Goncalves, Carvalho, Soudani, Lolley.

Problem is, Dias and Goncalves didn't work out at all; Soudani has had a long term injury and we have missed Grabban for 5 games (plus the rest)

That leaves us reliant on Lolley for goals, Carvalho when he is hot rather than cold, and Grabban when he is fit.

Beyond that we are back to relying on players who are not good enough in an attacking sense that were here before Karanka arrived- Cash, Osborn etc

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Every year its the same story, get rid of dead wood, bring in 10 players. Its absolute nonsense and the very reason we are still where we are.

Every season it's the same.

Football has to be played in an exact certain way or its complaints.

Manager cannot pick more than one central midfielder or he is picking "three defensive midfielders" and is "negative".

But results have to come instantly or "football is about results".

So a manager has to play the way you want them to, picking the players you all want them to and get winning instantly or they get shit from all sides.

While you are chasing that particular unicorn, why don't you pop down to Westminster and sort out Brexit for that tired looking woman in Downing street? Should probably be easier to achieve

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Lol..we were a good passing side before he took over

But we were only a good attacking side on the counter and only sporadically.

Far too easy to lock out, especially at home. You have to mix it up a bit to open more types of goals, which in fairness we are and are winning at home.

Many people (particularly one certain person) were complaining that Karanka was playing longball when he first came in)

 

[Pope John XXIII]

But most of the players are comfortable with the ball. They can pass perfectly well. Before AK left, we dominated possession in most games. We tried and often succeeded to play like Swansea did today. The change came when MoN took over...players are being told to play a different way.

This isnt remotely what people were saying about Karanka at the time!

I refer you to this thread from just a few months ago
https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/sick-of-karanka.86100/

 

[Basha73]

Every season it's the same.

Football has to be played in an exact certain way or its complaints.

Manager cannot pick more than one central midfielder or he is picking "three defensive midfielders" and is "negative".

But results have to come instantly or "football is about results".

So a manager has to play the way you want them to, picking the players you all want them to and get winning instantly or they get shit from all sides.

While you are chasing that particular unicorn, why don't you pop down to Westminster and sort out Brexit for that tired looking woman in Downing street? Should probably be easier to achieve

You are never going to please everyone in anything let alone football where everyone has an opinion.

When the majority of the fans start complaining, though, you know there is a problem and yesterday the mutterings of discontent increased in intensity to a dull roar.

As fans who have paid good money to be entertained we have the right to say if we agree with formations, tactics and player selection and we certainly have the right to voice our discontent when we have been served absolute dog shit football.

 

[Basha73]

This isnt remotely what people were saying about Karanka at the time!

I refer you to this thread from just a few months ago
https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/sick-of-karanka.86100/

Not sure what you think this thread proves...? To me it just shows people have opinions.

And if you compare the tone of that thread to more recent ones it shows that people were happier with AK than they are with MoN. Go figure...

 

[Pope John XXIII]

You are never going to please everyone in anything let alone football where everyone has an opinion.

When the majority of the fans start complaining, though, you know there is a problem and yesterday the mutterings of discontent increased in intensity to a dull roar.

As fans who have paid good money to be entertained we have the right to say if we agree with formations, tactics and player selection and we certainly have the right to voice our discontent when we have been served absolute dog shit football.

Were the majority of the sellout crowd booing at the final whistle yesterday?

And I see about 5 very vociferous voices on here plus a handful of moans and the odd one not daring to go against the loudest. Sounds a lot when the forum probably only has about 15 regular posters left

 

[Basha73]

Were the majority of the sellout crowd booing at the final whistle yesterday?

And I see about 5 very vociferous voices on here plus a handful of moans and the odd one not daring to go against the loudest. Sounds a lot when the forum probably only has about 15 regular posters left

Around me there was lots of moaning - far more than in recent weeks despite the fact we won. From what I saw no one went home particularly happy.

As for on here, it’s obvious that the majority view is a dislike of what we have been served but I don’t get what you are saying about someone not daring to go against someone else’s opinion. Maybe that is coloured by your opinion...

 

[radfordinlondon]

There was only one man worthy of a 10-year contract. A man who guarantees a top-six finish in this division. Goes by the name 'The KING'.

Shouldn't you have posted this from.ur woanz account?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Around me there was lots of moaning - far more than in recent weeks despite the fact we won. From what I saw no one went home particularly happy.

As for on here, it’s obvious that the majority view is a dislike of what we have been served but I don’t get what you are saying about someone not daring to go against someone else’s opinion. Maybe that is coloured by your opinion...

There are a number of very loud voices on here (mine might be one of them, who knows) and I suspect that the reason there are a fraction of the number of regular posters that there used to be might lie at least partly in that direction

You will all get what you want sooner or later anyway so there is little point in arguing about it.

After supporting the last two managers to the hilt against grain, I've had enough of it. I honestly don't care who the next manager is. Let CP pick for all I care.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Pope, he basically said that we can't expect attacking football when he has only been here 5 mins! Bollox......

That's not really what he said is it. He said he would also like to play teams off the park, I think he used the word sweep but it takes time and he has been there for 12 matches