Chorley in our cup | Page 17 | Vital Football

Chorley in our cup

Err - perhaps you were watching a different game to me ?, but up until Long got sent off at around 44 mins it looked to me like we were playing just fine - the midfield were passing the ball around accurately and we were keeping possession and controlling the game, we were 2:0 up and playing some nice football!
It went pear shaped when Long got sent off and Sheridan panicked and took off Merrie who had been playing well in midfield with Perry and proceeded by bringing on a young foreward to play out of position in defence he did this with about 1min to go to half time and with us 2:0 up - what a complete twat !

After this stupid substitution our midfield was fucked up and the rest is history !

Sorry about the expletives but just thinking about what (in my book) Sheridan caused yesterday and then piled the blame on Long and the other young guys just makes me so angry ! and I just want to call a twat a twat when it’s fully deserved !
Your correct he did make the wrong. Call with the sub. But even with ten men. Full Time players. should have been enough to win against a crap,non league side. As soon as they scored. They give up. No fight at all. Don’t get me wrong. Sheridon is crap.
 
There certainly has been a problem this season. When we lose a player through injury or, in this case, a sending off it all goes a bit pear-shaped for the next 20 minutes. Sheridan needs to work on their focus - quickly.
 
Err - perhaps you were watching a different game to me ?, but up until Long got sent off at around 44 mins it looked to me like we were playing just fine - the midfield were passing the ball around accurately and we were keeping possession and controlling the game, we were 2:0 up and playing some nice football!
It went pear shaped when Long got sent off and Sheridan panicked and took off Merrie who had been playing well in midfield with Perry and proceeded by bringing on a young foreward to play out of position in defence he did this with about 1min to go to half time and with us 2:0 up - what a complete twat !

After this stupid substitution our midfield was fucked up and the rest is history !

Sorry about the expletives but just thinking about what (in my book) Sheridan caused yesterday and then piled the blame on Long and the other young guys just makes me so angry ! and I just want to call a twat a twat when it’s fully deserved !

Let's not forget Sheridan was forced into changes by a needless red card. The issue was less the subs and more the fact we gave them a man advantage - if people want to critasise Sheridan for making bad choices - no worries i agree i think he made poor choices - but let's not shift all the blame onto just the manager, when Long deserves the most critasism for getting stupidly sent off and the 14 other players who were garbage. If Sheridan is a twat then so is Long and the other 14 players based on that performance.

I don't think Sheridan is any good, but he is getting all the critasism he deserves then also taking all the critasism others deserve that people don't want to give as they have a soft spot for our academy lads. Everyone should only get the blame they earn and not be used as a proxy to protect others.
 
I think your concept of time and effect needs re-calibrating Donnie. The academy started toward the end of Bobby's reign. There's then a lead-time from establishing the philosophy and fundamental methodology, getting the kids in, developing them, and enabling their transition to the first team squad. With Gelhardt and Weir, this season, we would have hopefully completed that transition.

Merrie and Perry weren't the jewels. Long, Obi and Joseph aren't ready yet. Crankshaw, Aasgard and McHugh are even further away.

There's little point in blaming the academy for things outside their control. Their time hasn't come yet. It's like taking a cake out of the oven hald an hour before it's due time and expecting it to be cooked.
Yip you end up with donuts.
 
Long is 19 (20 tomorrow) and may well be a twat, but he's a twat who's still very much learning the game.

Sheridan is an experienced manager, who, one would hope, shouldn't be phased by having to handle a team (the equivalent of) a couple of divisions below him for half a game, whilst holding a two goal lead, even though he's lost a (very inexperienced) defender.

As I've said previously, yes, the players need to take ownership of their own performances, but Sheridan played a big part in our reaction to losing Long.
 
I think under normal circumstances we could all agree that the manager should take the blame for his selection of the side he turned out, however given that he was only able to select the players from a very limited available pool then some leeway is necessary.

To say that Longs sending off was unnecessary is stretching it a bit, he made a challenge on the edge of the box that was deemed a foul, it wasn't a malicious challenge and it was a necessary one given that had he not made the challenge the player was through on goal. The referee deemed it a red card, but to most of us it was at most a yellow, I for one cannot blame a young player for making that challenge.

What was in my opinion indefensible is that a so called experienced manager then compounded the problem by making a knee jerk reaction and instead of waiting until half time, a minute or so away, changed the whole complexion of the game by robbing the midfield of its "enforcer" in Merrie and replacing him with a makeshift full back. Up until then the midfield was being dominated by our players and Gardner was playing well on the wing, the shift saw our dominance in midfield given up and any penetration we had on the wing lost as Gardner is hopeless as a holding midfield player.

The manager then went on to lay the criticism at the feet of the players, who rightly should take some, if not the majority, of the blame, but not in public, destroying any faith they have in a manager. Sheridan should take a leaf out of Arteta's book and take the blame in public to protect the dressing room and leave his criticism for the privacy of the training ground.
 
I think under normal circumstances we could all agree that the manager should take the blame for his selection of the side he turned out, however given that he was only able to select the players from a very limited available pool then some leeway is necessary.

To say that Longs sending off was unnecessary is stretching it a bit, he made a challenge on the edge of the box that was deemed a foul, it wasn't a malicious challenge and it was a necessary one given that had he not made the challenge the player was through on goal. The referee deemed it a red card, but to most of us it was at most a yellow, I for one cannot blame a young player for making that challenge.

What was in my opinion indefensible is that a so called experienced manager then compounded the problem by making a knee jerk reaction and instead of waiting until half time, a minute or so away, changed the whole complexion of the game by robbing the midfield of its "enforcer" in Merrie and replacing him with a makeshift full back. Up until then the midfield was being dominated by our players and Gardner was playing well on the wing, the shift saw our dominance in midfield given up and any penetration we had on the wing lost as Gardner is hopeless as a holding midfield player.

The manager then went on to lay the criticism at the feet of the players, who rightly should take some, if not the majority, of the blame, but not in public, destroying any faith they have in a manager. Sheridan should take a leaf out of Arteta's book and take the blame in public to protect the dressing room and leave his criticism for the privacy of the training ground.

Spot on apart from the bit about Long's challenge
Having thought a red was ludicrous at the time I watched the highlight on the BBC's website & had Long not made the challenge their guy was through on goal & able to get a shot away as Obi was too far away - having denied a goal scoring opportunity it was a nailed on red
On the challenge itself, as the law's of the game stand it was a stupid and naive challenge. Players know if they make a challenge like that outside the area it is going to be a sending off. If he'd waited a couple of strides until he got in the penalty area & possibly even closed up a bit of ground on them then had it been judged a genuine attempt for the ball the ref would have only been able to give a yellow due to that double jeopardy ruling they introduced a few seasons ago. Outside the area it doesn't matter whether it was a genuine attempt for the ball, it's a sending off. It's not a new law, it's been there, at all levels for 3 & a bit seasons now so he should have waited a risked giving a penalty away.
Secondly as we were 2-0 up at the time against a non league side & this fella is a part time player I think a player engaging his brain knows that the risk of letting him have a shot at goal against a U21 international keeper is less than the risk of making that challenge where he did & knowing that we'll have to play with 10 men for 45+ minutes with the complete change in psychology for both sets of players & the match itself
But he didn't engage his brain, he lunged in & it started a chain of events that ultimately led to us losing 3-2

That said, to come out in public & say what he said about a young player, who's still wet behind the ears as far as professional footballers go regardless of the fact he may be 20 or 21, is unforgivable. Sheridan's right in what he said but you say it calmly, in private & tell him to learn from his mistake.
And I made the comparison with Arteta after Villa took them to the cleaners on Sunday. That's exactly how it should be done
Me & mate got a taxi from, & then to, the airport in Maribor with (amongst others) couple of fella's who have (or had) access behind the scenes at every Latics home game. Someone else in the taxi asked them who was the manager who gave the worse hair dryer treatment & they both said Martinez & that he could peel the paint off the walls. I was really surprised bearing in mind he would not say a word against his team in public even when they just be tonked 9-1 but that's what a manager should do
 
Spot on apart from the bit about Long's challenge
Having thought a red was ludicrous at the time I watched the highlight on the BBC's website & had Long not made the challenge their guy was through on goal & able to get a shot away as Obi was too far away - having denied a goal scoring opportunity it was a nailed on red
On the challenge itself, as the law's of the game stand it was a stupid and naive challenge. Players know if they make a challenge like that outside the area it is going to be a sending off. If he'd waited a couple of strides until he got in the penalty area & possibly even closed up a bit of ground on them then had it been judged a genuine attempt for the ball the ref would have only been able to give a yellow due to that double jeopardy ruling they introduced a few seasons ago. Outside the area it doesn't matter whether it was a genuine attempt for the ball, it's a sending off. It's not a new law, it's been there, at all levels for 3 & a bit seasons now so he should have waited a risked giving a penalty away.
Secondly as we were 2-0 up at the time against a non league side & this fella is a part time player I think a player engaging his brain knows that the risk of letting him have a shot at goal against a U21 international keeper is less than the risk of making that challenge where he did & knowing that we'll have to play with 10 men for 45+ minutes with the complete change in psychology for both sets of players & the match itself
But he didn't engage his brain, he lunged in & it started a chain of events that ultimately led to us losing 3-2

That said, to come out in public & say what he said about a young player, who's still wet behind the ears as far as professional footballers go regardless of the fact he may be 20 or 21, is unforgivable. Sheridan's right in what he said but you say it calmly, in private & tell him to learn from his mistake.
And I made the comparison with Arteta after Villa took them to the cleaners on Sunday. That's exactly how it should be done
Me & mate got a taxi from, & then to, the airport in Maribor with (amongst others) couple of fella's who have (or had) access behind the scenes at every Latics home game. Someone else in the taxi asked them who was the manager who gave the worse hair dryer treatment & they both said Martinez & that he could peel the paint off the walls. I was really surprised bearing in mind he would not say a word against his team in public even when they just be tonked 9-1 but that's what a manager should do

As I said most of us on here would see it as a yellow at most, but you are entitled to your opinion as I am of mine.(y)
 
What happened to 'it don't care if we get beat every week I just want a team to support?' You got your wish, I think a little perspective is needed in terms of what can be achieved. First and foremost, the administration team needs to be shipped out ASAP. They are the shackles around the ankles and no progress at all can be made until they are legally and officially out of the picture. It's going to get worse until they are gone. The longer that takes means the longer the club stares at league 2. You have to accept it for what it is. If the club is bought then the work starts. Wigan athletic at the moment is just going through the motions. Perseverance is what is required right now.
 
What happened to 'it don't care if we get beat every week I just want a team to support?' You got your wish, I think a little perspective is needed in terms of what can be achieved. First and foremost, the administration team needs to be shipped out ASAP. They are the shackles around the ankles and no progress at all can be made until they are legally and officially out of the picture. It's going to get worse until they are gone. The longer that takes means the longer the club stares at league 2. You have to accept it for what it is. If the club is bought then the work starts. Wigan athletic at the moment is just going through the motions. Perseverance is what is required right now.
There’s a few good points in there Frankel to be fair ... however ...no matter how parlous our position may be, that shouldn’t excuse clear incompetence, lack of effort or apparent indifference either on the pitch or in the dugout and the perception of all those things, however accurate those perceptions are (I happen to think ‘fair comment’ mostly) is what has got posters wound up.
 
That said, to come out in public & say what he said about a young player, who's still wet behind the ears as far as professional footballers go regardless of the fact he may be 20 or 21, is unforgivable. Sheridan's right in what he said but you say it calmly, in private & tell him to learn from his mistake.
And I made the comparison with Arteta after Villa took them to the cleaners on Sunday. That's exactly how it should be done
Me & mate got a taxi from, & then to, the airport in Maribor with (amongst others) couple of fella's who have (or had) access behind the scenes at every Latics home game. Someone else in the taxi asked them who was the manager who gave the worse hair dryer treatment & they both said Martinez & that he could peel the paint off the walls. I was really surprised bearing in mind he would not say a word against his team in public even when they just be tonked 9-1 but that's what a manager should do
I seem to remember Cook getting criticised for not having a go at the players, just being calm when we were losing games, but Sheridan is the polar opposite and speaks too freely about things that should be kept in the dressing room
 
If we can't beat Chorley when were 2-0 up at half-time,
then lose 2-3 at home even with 10 men then we are in for some big losses in the near future.

We are not winning matches, even against non-league teams, losing becomes a habit and at present we can't break it.
 
It's pretty clear from Sheridan's recent interviews that he feels the players are letting him down badly and wants the world to know how he feels. I think the fact he is doing that shows he is at the end of his rope with them as burying your players publicly is the last resort of a manager and a sign that the relationship is breaking down.

Maybe he feels that this is a kick up the arse that will get a reaction from them - but i think most likely it's a sign that he doesn't believe the players are playing for him and if they weren't before they will unlikely respond favourably.

I think Sheridan is actually right, the players are letting him and us down very badly, but as a manager it's ultimately on you to keep the players on side and motivate them and he's failing as badly as them. Unfortunately Sheridan is unlikely to be moved on and someone else brought in and he certainly has no scope to change the players so i think the disfunction will just remain as it is until the takeover is done.

One thing is for sure, Cristo's idea of keeping Sheridan on if he ever gets passed by the EFL should be re-evaluated.
 
I seem to remember Cook getting criticised for not having a go at the players, just being calm when we were losing games, but Sheridan is the polar opposite and speaks too freely about things that should be kept in the dressing room

I genuinely don't want to hear a manager slating his players in public. At most a collective "That performance fell below the standards i expect but that's it."
I stopped listening to Bobby's post match interviews within a year of him starting coz you knew that he just wasn't going to criticise in public - when someone says after a 9-1 defeat that there were a lot of positives to take from the game then you know it isn't just gonna happen
I also noticed when Jewell took over at Derby that he was berating his players week after week in the press and didn't thing it was the right thing to do & would isolate him from his players & hey presto it happened. When a manager starts to do that you know that they're on borrowed time
 
It's pretty clear from Sheridan's recent interviews that he feels the players are letting him down badly and wants the world to know how he feels. I think the fact he is doing that shows he is at the end of his rope with them as burying your players publicly is the last resort of a manager and a sign that the relationship is breaking down.

Maybe he feels that this is a kick up the arse that will get a reaction from them - but i think most likely it's a sign that he doesn't believe the players are playing for him and if they weren't before they will unlikely respond favourably.

I think Sheridan is actually right, the players are letting him and us down very badly, but as a manager it's ultimately on you to keep the players on side and motivate them and he's failing as badly as them. Unfortunately Sheridan is unlikely to be moved on and someone else brought in and he certainly has no scope to change the players so i think the disfunction will just remain as it is until the takeover is done.

One thing is for sure, Cristo's idea of keeping Sheridan on if he ever gets passed by the EFL should be re-evaluated.

Some of the players are undoutedly letting him down but publicly berating a 19 yr old lad who's been thrown in at the deep end well before he's ready, in to a team in chaos on and off the pitch & losing (& being expected to) most weeks after being in successful teams for the last few years is beyond the pale for me
 
It's pretty clear from Sheridan's recent interviews that he feels the players are letting him down badly and wants the world to know how he feels. I think the fact he is doing that shows he is at the end of his rope with them as burying your players publicly is the last resort of a manager and a sign that the relationship is breaking down.

Maybe he feels that this is a kick up the arse that will get a reaction from them - but i think most likely it's a sign that he doesn't believe the players are playing for him and if they weren't before they will unlikely respond favourably.

I think Sheridan is actually right, the players are letting him and us down very badly, but as a manager it's ultimately on you to keep the players on side and motivate them and he's failing as badly as them. Unfortunately Sheridan is unlikely to be moved on and someone else brought in and he certainly has no scope to change the players so i think the disfunction will just remain as it is until the takeover is done.

One thing is for sure, Cristo's idea of keeping Sheridan on if he ever gets passed by the EFL should be re-evaluated.
Spot on, some players and Sheridan need moving on, it's does not give much confidence to most fans the possible new owners,
want to keep Sheridan for the full season.
 
I seem to remember Cook getting criticised for not having a go at the players, just being calm when we were losing games, but Sheridan is the polar opposite and speaks too freely about things that should be kept in the dressing room

Cook did critisise though IMO, he just never singled out or gave details in public. That is perfectly acceptable, and most importantly, professional.
 
I genuinely don't want to hear a manager slating his players in public. At most a collective "That performance fell below the standards i expect but that's it."
I stopped listening to Bobby's post match interviews within a year of him starting coz you knew that he just wasn't going to criticise in public - when someone says after a 9-1 defeat that there were a lot of positives to take from the game then you know it isn't just gonna happen
I also noticed when Jewell took over at Derby that he was berating his players week after week in the press and didn't thing it was the right thing to do & would isolate him from his players & hey presto it happened. When a manager starts to do that you know that they're on borrowed time
That's the art of being a good manager, if a player is not performing well,
sort it out on the training pitch, if that doesn't work, just drop him out of the team until he improves or get shut ASP.
 
Just listened to Sheridans interview - I dont see a problem with what he has said publicly - he was honest and genuine - the players should have done better and hopefully they will learn from it.