Standing - Sit Down! | Page 7 | Vital Football

Standing - Sit Down!

danvilla2 said:
I know this is a contentious post, but if you want to sit and enjoy the game without the yo-yo ing, why don’t you move to the Trinity or DE?

The Holte is supposed to be about atmosphere, if all 13k people sit the atmosphere will dissipate quickly. The atmosphere this season has been unbelievable at times I can’t remember it being this good. If the atmosphere was shit, this would be a post about how we improve the atmosphere and get people singing scripted songs.

I don’t understand why you’d sit in the Holte if you don’t want to contribute to the atmosphere or put up with the yo-yo standing?

I guess people choose to sit in the Holte for the atmosphere, but if that goes I don’t get why you’d do it. The view of the game is good, but sat on the sideline rather than behind a goal for me is a much better way to analyse a game.

We won’t find reasonable ground here between the differing views, I think the place we all agree is the sooner we get safe standing the better. I suspect then there will be a high demand for the standing spaces, if only a few thousand seats get changed.
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Dan,l agree that watching from the Witton lane or Trinity gives an excellent view of effort and skill levels of players. However, watching from the Holte provides a better appreciation of tactics and team cohesion.
 
OK so I've read through some of the posts I missed yesterday, and there's one thing that I still don't quite get.

Quite a few people have commented along the lines of 'most of us have found a seat we're happy with at home' or 'people who aren't happy should just move out of the North/Holte' or 'you should expect to stand in the Holte'.

What I can't get my head around is that people don't seem to realise that this thread isn't about the areas that have always stood (rightly or wrongly), it's about the sudden change in attitude that seems to have occurred at the back end of last season/since promotion which now means that areas are constantly standing that haven't before.

And when I say constant, I mean constant. Every second of every game since August, not the up-and-down stuff you have to do for people to move around.

There's no doubt that some people, most commonly those with minor disabilities or mobility problems, elderly people and kids, are having their matchday experiences ruined because they can't see, or physically can't stand all game.

Only 1 person has engaged me on this so far, unless everyone has put me on ignore! But I'll repeat it again for the sake of the argument - I've had to move out of my seat of 12 years, yes, really, because our block has suddenly (since August) decided to start standing for the whole game and I can't do that. How would you feel if you were put in that position?

Likewise, I'm sure that if everyone who wanted to move out of the lower Holte and North (where the biggest problems are) asked to, the club simply wouldn't be able to accommodate those requests because of ticket demand and a lack of availability. Why should other fans have to move and be inconvenienced because some don't want to follow the rules?
 
Holte139 said:
OK so I've read through some of the posts I missed yesterday, and there's one thing that I still don't quite get.

Quite a few people have commented along the lines of 'most of us have found a seat we're happy with at home' or 'people who aren't happy should just move out of the North/Holte' or 'you should expect to stand in the Holte'.

What I can't get my head around is that people don't seem to realise that this thread isn't about the areas that have always stood (rightly or wrongly), it's about the sudden change in attitude that seems to have occurred at the back end of last season/since promotion which now means that areas are constantly standing that haven't before.

And when I say constant, I mean constant. Every second of every game since August, not the up-and-down stuff you have to do for people to move around.

There's no doubt that some people, most commonly those with minor disabilities or mobility problems, elderly people and kids, are having their matchday experiences ruined because they can't see, or physically can't stand all game.

Only 1 person has engaged me on this so far, unless everyone has put me on ignore! But I'll repeat it again for the sake of the argument - I've had to move out of my seat of 12 years, yes, really, because our block has suddenly (since August) decided to start standing for the whole game and I can't do that. How would you feel if you were put in that position?

Likewise, I'm sure that if everyone who wanted to move out of the lower Holte and North (where the biggest problems are) asked to, the club simply wouldn't be able to accommodate those requests because of ticket demand and a lack of availability. Why should other fans have to move and be inconvenienced because some don't want to follow the rules?
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I can't stand up for more than a couple of minutes, so it would totally ruin the experience for me.
 
Agreed Holte, have tried a few times to point out this is a growing problem, not talking about areas that have always stood - rightly or wrongly (and in an all seater, it is wrongly!)
 
What I dont get in all of this is why Rugby Union fans, particulally at the big internationals seem to be totally exempt from this legislation.
Can someone please enlighten me does the legislation only apply to football. If that is the case why is that.
Rugby fans can be seen standing all game all round the ground, drinking pints of beer.
I know all about the reasons, supposedly, this was introduced was a football problem, but even that is contentious given that all these years on the courts are putting the police in the dock for their part in it all.
I think all of the above posts demonstrate that there is a desire for standing and we as a club should try along with other like minded clubs to take advantage of the technology that now exist and do something about it.
 
Two simple words, The Taylor

Ok, three simple words.

The Taylor Report.

That's why.

As said, it was the cages they put us in, not the standing, but his findings led to this ridiculous situation.

The effort,I believe, has been put in, as said earlier in the thread, I know Paul Faulkner was pushing for a safe standing area. But there seems a resistance from MP's - who by and large know nothing about football - and the authorities.
 
The Fear said:
Two simple words, The Taylor

Ok, three simple words.

The Taylor Report.

That's why.

As said, it was the cages they put us in, not the standing, but his findings led to this ridiculous situation.

The effort,I believe, has been put in, as said earlier in the thread, I know Paul Faulkner was pushing for a safe standing area. But there seems a resistance from MP's - who by and large know nothing about football - and the authorities.
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Well that just about sums it up, a resistance from MPs.
Those useless bastards, most of whom have never had a real job and couldnt survive in the real world get to adjudicate and legislate according to their own prejudices. Brexit being the latest example.
Sorry for the language but those two letters M and P when put together bring out the worst in me.
 
The Fear said:
Two simple words, The Taylor

Ok, three simple words.

The Taylor Report.

That's why.

As said, it was the cages they put us in, not the standing, but his findings led to this ridiculous situation.

The effort,I believe, has been put in, as said earlier in the thread, I know Paul Faulkner was pushing for a safe standing area. But there seems a resistance from MP's - who by and large know nothing about football - and the authorities.
Click to expand...
I've been following (without commenting) this thread since it opened. Some interesting debate. I am one of those that thinks following rules isn't especially difficult, and don't see much point in arguing about it. Football grounds have been all-seated for 20+ years now, so we've all had plenty of time to get used to it. Standing up when we score (or for some other major moment of excitement) is a spontaneous and understandable reaction. The rest of the time - just sit down.

To your point JF, about MPs and authorities being unwilling to consider standing areas, I think it boils down to the fact that nobody wants to be "the person" who initiates standing areas because of potential liability in the case of something going wrong. The findings and resultant changes of the taylor report were undoubtedly overkill, but if you take a step back, we haven't had another hillsbrough or Bradford incident since, so why would authorities want to "reverse" anything? The backlash from Hillsbrough is still going on today. I remember seeing a headline quite recently that somebody was in court regarding his actions on that day. Imagine being the MP who pushes for standing at grounds, knowing that if something goes wrong you could be publicly shamed, sued, and have your life ruined some 25 years after the fact...

On a separate note, try watching a sporting event here in the US at any stadium. Food vendors constantly walking up and down the steps selling, people getting up and down throughout to visit the concourse. It drives you potty. I don't even bother going to stadiums here because the experience of watching is completely ruined by having your view blocked every 30 seconds!
 
Great post GM. Totally agree with all the points made. That is one of the benefits of not being able to drink during games, you aren't forever moving for people more interested in having a drink than watching the game.
 
I'm with gm on those points.
If safe designated standing areas were brought in I'd have no objection and would welcome the choice for those who wish to stand in them. The problem would arise if fans in adjacent areas took it as an excuse to stand as well. I can see a knock on effect developing with large swathes, not within the designated areas, standing en masse.
 
gmvillan said:
I've been following (without commenting) this thread since it opened. Some interesting debate. I am one of those that thinks following rules isn't especially difficult, and don't see much point in arguing about it. Football grounds have been all-seated for 20+ years now, so we've all had plenty of time to get used to it. Standing up when we score (or for some other major moment of excitement) is a spontaneous and understandable reaction. The rest of the time - just sit down.

To your point JF, about MPs and authorities being unwilling to consider standing areas, I think it boils down to the fact that nobody wants to be "the person" who initiates standing areas because of potential liability in the case of something going wrong. The findings and resultant changes of the taylor report were undoubtedly overkill, but if you take a step back, we haven't had another hillsbrough or Bradford incident since, so why would authorities want to "reverse" anything? The backlash from Hillsbrough is still going on today. I remember seeing a headline quite recently that somebody was in court regarding his actions on that day. Imagine being the MP who pushes for standing at grounds, knowing that if something goes wrong you could be publicly shamed, sued, and have your life ruined some 25 years after the fact...

On a separate note, try watching a sporting event here in the US at any stadium. Food vendors constantly walking up and down the steps selling, people getting up and down throughout to visit the concourse. It drives you potty. I don't even bother going to stadiums here because the experience of watching is completely ruined by having your view blocked every 30 seconds!
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I dont think you can quote Bradford in with this debate. That was nothing to do with standing and everything to do with old wooden stadiums and is unlikely to be repeated in the Premier League which is what we are talking about.
And with regard to Hillborough as I mentioned above that tragedy was more to do with poor policing as is now being admitted.
We can learn the lessons of the past and apply them to the future. I would argue that safe standing is safer than standing in a seated area and should be looked at.
 
gmvillan said:
I've been following (without commenting) this thread since it opened. Some interesting debate. I am one of those that thinks following rules isn't especially difficult, and don't see much point in arguing about it. Football grounds have been all-seated for 20+ years now, so we've all had plenty of time to get used to it. Standing up when we score (or for some other major moment of excitement) is a spontaneous and understandable reaction. The rest of the time - just sit down.
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This! :clap:
 
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