Standing - Sit Down!

[The Fear]

Anyway, unless I am reading this wrong looks to me like most don't care about other fans or if the club get fined, just as long as you are able to stand in an all seater stadium.

I think I'm going to start to sit in the standing area at concerts in future, just to even things out.

 

[The Fear]

When I say family stand, loosely I mean the Trinity and Doug Ellis. 85% of the ground sits during the game, it’s quite difficult to be in an area where you are standing all game as these are STH blocks.
).

You lose points for mentioning that name. I assume you are talking about the Witton Lane Stand?

I just don't see why fans who have probably been in their seats for years, should move just to suit a growing amount of people who want to stand. I know what it is like moving when you don't want to, it's not great. Nearly led to me just not coming back, my first game was 77.. and yes, we could stand in those days.

Standing in seated stadia isn't that safe to be fair, you can read up on it. Safe standing or normal standing areas, yes. But again, that is a different argument.

I think from what I've heard you'll find it isn't 85% sitting. I know even in the Trinity before my move, there was a growing amount of standing.

But the issue is we are running at capacity, 30 000 season ticket holders and a waiting list of over 5000 plus thousands in the Membership thingy. So how do you think these people are able to move, there aren't the seats?

 

[The Fear]

As I said yesterday there is mass standing for the 'big games' but only and as and when excitement dictates for other games .

Ah right, excitement. So it was an all seater area for the last ten odd yaers before this season then!?!?!??!?!

 

[VillaTomB38]

Anyway, unless I am reading this wrong looks to me like most don't care about other fans or if the club get fined, just as long as you are able to stand in an all seater stadium.

I think I'm going to start to sit in the standing area at concerts in future, just to even things out.

Tbh (And sure Dan will concur) the ‘problem’ is totally oblivious to me, in all the time I’ve been in L8 I’ve never seen any steward(s) come and tell us to sit down and I’ve barely seen a steward up there full stop as there’s never any problems. That tells me the club are tolerating it in that area as no one causes any trouble or anything, the people in that block just want to stand and watch the game. It was the same when I was in North Lower too, no one told us to sit down yet there were plenty of stewards and police about. So you may call it a ‘problem’ but what exactly are the club doing about it? Not a lot it seems, so they’ve allowed the ‘problem’ to develop. They should just follow the example of cardiff and make particular blocks (Such as L8) tolerated standing areas and focus resources elsewhere.

Oh and I wouldn’t suggest sitting on a floor at a gig, you’d probably stick to it.

 

[tmg513]

https://sgsa.org.uk/wp-content/uplo...hority-2018-19-Annual-Report-and-Accounts.pdf

This extract from the Sports Grounds Safety Authority's annual report may be of interest:

Standing in seated areas
The majority of league clubs are subject to the Government’s all-seater policy, which only allows for spectators to view matches from seated areas. Addressing persistent standing at these grounds is one of the key challenges facing the SGSA. Despite strenuous efforts at every league ground to discourage persistent standing, the number of fans choosing to stand is not falling and may indeed be increasing.On 25 June 2018, a debate was held in Parliament on the issue, following a successful petition, which received over 100,000 signatures. Fifty Members of Parliament spoke in the debate, expressing a range of views on the case for reform of the all-seater policy. During the session, the then Minister for Sport and Civil Society, Tracey Crouch MP, announced that the Government would commission an independent review of evidence on standing at football. The aim of the review was to look at the existing evidence on standing and assess its reliability, identify any important gaps in the data, and recommend the best ways of filling them. We have worked closely with the Government to ensure the review is able to consider all of the evidence we, and our partners, hold.All clubs are actively engaged in managing the safety risks associated with persistent standing. This season, Shrewsbury Town FC, a club not subject to the all-seater policy, has introduced a rail seating section in response to demand from fans. More recently, Tottenham Hotspur FC became the first club in the top two tiers of English football to provide seats incorporating barriers when its new stadium opened. Both clubs are using engineering solutions that are in line with the standards set out in the sixth edition of the Green Guide to improve the safety of spectators.In preparation for next season, we are working with partners on new guidance on persistent standing for clubs subject to the all-seater policy that reflects the latest developments in design and practice. In addition, we will be gathering further evidence over the 2019/20 season on the efficacy of the different approaches taken at league grounds to mitigate the risks associated with standing in seated areas.

 

[The Fear]

Tbh (And sure Dan will concur) the problem is totally oblivious to me, in all the time I’ve been in L8 I’ve never seen any steward(s) come and tell us to sit down and I’ve barely seen a steward up there full stop as there’s never any problems. That tells me the club are tolerating it in that area as no one causes any trouble or anything, the people in that block just want to stand and watch the game. It was the same when I was in North Lower too, no one told us to sit down yet there were plenty of stewards and police about. So you may call it a ‘problem’ but what exactly are the club doing about it? Not a lot it seems, so they’ve allowed the ‘problem’ to develop. They should just follow the example of cardiff and make particular blocks (Such as L8) tolerated standing areas and focus resources elsewhere.

Oh and I wouldn’t suggest sitting on a floor at a gig, you’d probably stick to it.

I've said that a few times in this thread, football (not just this club) has allowed it to grow to the level that it is at. So they have a problem on their hands.

But also stated the club are getting more and more complaints, so it is a growing problem.

I've not called it a 'problem'. I've stated it is a problem.

Luckily, it isn't something I have the problem of having to try to fix.

As long as all the selfish people are happy, I'm happy

 

[sirdennis]

I should say that if anyone ever tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to sit down because they couldn't see I would and have done so , but I don't get asked very often nowadays if at all.

 

[The Fear]

Agreed sirdennis, but then if someone is standing in front of you, and you then can't see, would you tap them on the shoulder? And so on? Bearing in mind how some are when it comes to being asked to do anything!

 

[wittonite]

What does other fans wanting to be able to sit down in an all-seater stadium have to do with corporations or an anti-fan attitude from the Premier League or the FA? As Fear has pointed out, we DON'T have a choice, like it or not. We either sit down or stay standing and risk the club being punished and possibly losing our seats, with the added 'bonus' of ruining the experience of kids, elderly people and disabled people.

All of these groups have a right to attend football matches, so why don't the people who haven't sat in an all-seater stadium since May do the buggering off instead?

Buggering off. Who said that, only you as far as I can see.
As Fear said we DONT have a choice, like it or not.
Why dont we have a choice, because the FA rolled over and didnt fight the fans corner in the face of the Taylor Report
As JF also says the Taylor report, locking us all in cages like wild animals was a lousy piece of legislation that the FA, as far as I remember siezed upon the opportunity to get everyone sat down.
The corporation bit comes in because everyone seated gave the FA and the clubs the chance to woo the corporate clients, who previously saw football as a working class game they didnt want to get involved with unlike Rugby Union where they felt comfortable entertaining their clients.
As for kids, the elderly, I am 68, and the disabled, who are catered for in other parts of the ground, I dont see any of them up the back of the Holte where I "sit".
I have not seen any of the above contributors on this thread advocating that you or anyone else "bugger off", just that we should be able to accomodate all tastes.
I cant see anything wrong with that view.

 

[wittonite]

Anyway, unless I am reading this wrong looks to me like most don't care about other fans or if the club get fined, just as long as you are able to stand in an all seater stadium.

I think I'm going to start to sit in the standing area at concerts in future, just to even things out.

Now, I know that you jest JF but what sort of society allows a moshing pit at rock band concerts, and great fun they are, to exist when we cant stand at a football match.
Bye the way this is a great thread that you started to fill the boring international break. Well done.

 

[The Fear]

Thanks wittonite, I have enjoyed it as well, and teasing a bit as well !

It is the same as no drink at football but it can be consumed anywhere else... and so on and so forth. It is a sanitised sport now, no doubt. Just a product sadly.

I do have to laugh, me going on about standing and sitting.

I was at a Bring Me The Horizon concert, the band before had been banging on about not doing what you are told (youngsters, re-inventing the rebellion wheel) ((and the next minute, they were telling everyone to put their hands in the air, which they did!!)).

Well, I don't do what I'm told to, unless I see a logic, anyone that knows me will know I don't do audience participation, I've paid them to entertain me, not for me to entertain them

Anyway, BMTH told everyone to crouch down on the floor. Everyone bar me did so. The punk dressed girl in front and her boyfriend tried to pull me down to the floor, I pointed out you don't have to be a follower in life! No good dressing as a punk unless you are a punk/have a punk spirit in my humble. So fake!!

To be fair, my legs were having a spazzy day and if I had got down, I might not have got back up. But the main thing is, I don't see why I should be told what to do, no thanks!

I thought surely not everyone had followed these instructions so turned round, ooop, all but one guy at the back and me!!!!!!!!

 

[wittonite]

Thanks wittonite, I have enjoyed it as well, and teasing a bit as well !

It is the same as no drink at football but it can be consumed anywhere else... and so on and so forth. It is a sanitised sport now, no doubt. Just a product sadly.

I do have to laugh, me going on about standing and sitting.

I was at a Bring Me The Horizon concert, the band before had been banging on about not doing what you are told (youngsters, re-inventing the rebellion wheel) ((and the next minute, they were telling everyone to put their hands in the air, which they did!!)).

Well, I don't do what I'm told to, unless I see a logic, anyone that knows me will know I don't do audience participation, I've paid them to entertain me, not for me to entertain them

Anyway, BMTH told everyone to crouch down on the floor. Everyone bar me did so. The punk dressed girl in front and her boyfriend tried to pull me down to the floor, I pointed out you don't have to be a follower in life! No good dressing as a punk unless you are a punk/have a punk spirit in my humble. So fake!!

To be fair, my legs were having a spazzy day and if I had got down, I might not have got back up. Band yes I see reasons but the main thing is, I don't see why I should be told what to do, no thanks!

I thought surely not everyone had followed these instructions so turned round, ooop, all but one guy at the back and me!!!!!!!!

Its good to be different, and long may it last.
I hate conformity but there are occasions when I see the reason but that doesnt mean I have to like it.

 

[Villan57]

Agreed sirdennis, but then if someone is standing in front of you, and you then can't see, would you tap them on the shoulder? And so on? Bearing in mind how some are when it comes to being asked to do anything!

I asked a lad in front of me to sit down at Wembley a couple of years ago and he did and apologised to my Granddaughter for blocking her view.
On another occasion when we played Chelsea again at Wembley where the fans get mixed up from their normal setting, a pissed up idiot refused to sit after being asked to by the son of an obviously elderly gentleman who couldn't keep getting up and down.
The lad continued to stand and after the 3rd time of asking got aggressive, he ended up about 3 rows down clutching his face and was promptly ejected by the stewards. he was just asking for it to be honest Villa fan or not.

I think we've all found a seat that suits us at Villa Park but away days are a problem

 

[wittonite]

I asked a lad in front of me to sit down at Wembley a couple of years ago and he did and apologised to my Granddaughter for blocking her view.
On another occasion when we played Chelsea again at Wembley where the fans get mixed up from their normal setting, a pissed up idiot refused to sit after being asked to by the son of an obviously elderly gentleman who couldn't keep getting up and down.
The lad continued to stand and after the 3rd time of asking got aggressive, he ended up about 3 rows down clutching his face and was promptly ejected by the stewards. he was just asking for it to be honest Villa fan or not.

I think we've all found a seat that suits us at Villa Park but away days are a problem

You touched on something there 57. I dont drink, but used to, so I am not anti booze, but the state of some of the idiots I cant understand how they get past the stewards. At a game last season a chap a couple of rows in front of me sat down purely because he couldnt stand up and proceeded to pester two young girls throughout the game before being told to piss off by the bloke next to him.
I would have thought allowing people in this state into the ground is a bigger issue than standing.

 

[sirdennis]

Agreed sirdennis, but then if someone is standing in front of you, and you then can't see, would you tap them on the shoulder? And so on? Bearing in mind how some are when it comes to being asked to do anything!

Yes . I have done especially when Sir Dennis jnr was younger. I can't remember anyone moaning about it to be fair.

 

[Villan57]

You touched on something there 57. I dont drink, but used to, so I am not anti booze, but the state of some of the idiots I cant understand how they get past the stewards. At a game last season a chap a couple of rows in front of me sat down purely because he couldnt stand up and proceeded to pester two young girls throughout the game before being told to piss off by the bloke next to him.
I would have thought allowing people in this state into the ground is a bigger issue than standing.

I agree with you mate, I've been to away games where people are so drunk they don't even watch the game, some must go home not knowing the score.

 

[Holte139]

Buggering off. Who said that, only you as far as I can see.
As for kids, the elderly, I am 68, and the disabled, who are catered for in other parts of the ground, I dont see any of them up the back of the Holte where I "sit".
I have not seen any of the above contributors on this thread advocating that you or anyone else "bugger off", just that we should be able to accomodate all tastes.
I cant see anything wrong with that view.

I agree with you mate, there is nothing wrong with that view, but I have to take issue with these parts of your post.

Essentially, by being selfish and insisting to stand when the rules say you can't, you are telling people to bugger off. Not you specifically, but I'm talking about that whole attitude in general. There's 2 lads on my row with 'hidden' disabilities who have been struggling their way through games this season. I've had operations on my legs too, which mean that yours are probably in a better condition than mine despite the 40 year age gap!

Those lads, or me for that matter, can't just go in the disabled area because it's meant for wheelchair users, not people with minor disabilities/mobility problems who can still move and walk.

In my area of the ground at least, this is an entirely new problem. For 12 years, I've loved it in the Holte. But since August it's been decided that we have to stand through every second of every game, and I've hardly been able to walk out of the ground at the end.

My patience has snapped. I've contacted the club and they have arranged to move me, fortunately. It's just a shame it's come to this.

 

[wittonite]

I agree with you mate, there is nothing wrong with that view, but I have to take issue with these parts of your post.

Essentially, by being selfish and insisting to stand when the rules say you can't, you are telling people to bugger off. Not you specifically, but I'm talking about that whole attitude in general. There's 2 lads on my row with 'hidden' disabilities who have been struggling their way through games this season. I've had operations on my legs too, which mean that yours are probably in a better condition than mine despite the 40 year age gap!

Those lads, or me for that matter, can't just go in the disabled area because it's meant for wheelchair users, not people with minor disabilities/mobility problems who can still move and walk.

In my area of the ground at least, this is an entirely new problem. For 12 years, I've loved it in the Holte. But since August it's been decided that we have to stand through every second of every game, and I've hardly been able to walk out of the ground at the end.

My patience has snapped. I've contacted the club and they have arranged to move me, fortunately. It's just a shame it's come to this.

Thanks for your response. I will clarify my position. 95% of the time I get a ticket in the back of K4 or K5 where everyone stands. That is the reason we all go up there.
On the odd occasion when I cant get up there I will go anywhere in the upper Holte, and if I cant get a ticket in the Holte I go in the Trinity.
If I am in a part of the ground where no one stands then I take the oppurtunity to rest my ageing legs.
A good example is the upcoming Leicester game which originally I could not attend. Circumstances have now changed and I am able to travel up to Brum.
I have just checked on line and there are no Holte End tickets available so I have purchased in the Upper Trinity, and I will conform to whatever the norm is in that part of the ground.
I already know in advance that is a game for which I will be seated.
I do however come back to my original point that nobody up the back of the Holte goes up there for a nice cosey afternoon, because that part of the ground just is not like that.
Thank you for pointing out that no-one told anyone to bugger off.
I would also point out that I hate selfish sods and I am not one.
If the standing laws at Villa Park were enforced, or I felt that I was causing anyone a problem by standing then I would comply and sit down. I would add that in all my years of attending games at the Villa I have never once been asked to sit down because I am aware of my surroundings and would not wish to spoil another fans day out.

 

[The Fear]

My patience has snapped. I've contacted the club and they have arranged to move me, fortunately. It's just a shame it's come to this.

Really sorry to hear that, think it stinks. But glad the club have come up trumps for you.

 

[Holte139]

Thanks for your response. I will clarify my position. 95% of the time I get a ticket in the back of K4 or K5 where everyone stands. That is the reason we all go up there.
On the odd occasion when I cant get up there I will go anywhere in the upper Holte, and if I cant get a ticket in the Holte I go in the Trinity.
If I am in a part of the ground where no one stands then I take the oppurtunity to rest my ageing legs.
A good example is the upcoming Leicester game which originally I could not attend. Circumstances have now changed and I am able to travel up to Brum.
I have just checked on line and there are no Holte End tickets available so I have purchased in the Upper Trinity, and I will conform to whatever the norm is in that part of the ground.
I already know in advance that is a game for which I will be seated.
I do however come back to my original point that nobody up the back of the Holte goes up there for a nice cosey afternoon, because that part of the ground just is not like that.
Thank you for pointing out that no-one told anyone to bugger off.
I would also point out that I hate selfish sods and I am not one.
If the standing laws at Villa Park were enforced, or I felt that I was causing anyone a problem by standing then I would comply and sit down. I would add that in all my years of attending games at the Villa I have never once been asked to sit down because I am aware of my surroundings and would not wish to spoil another fans day out.

I hope you know that I wasn't accusing you of being selfish directly, wittonite. I latched onto your post because I couldn't quite understand what you meant at first.

I just felt like the point needed raising. I understand that some areas of the ground are known for standing, rightly or wrongly.

My main point is that this is a growing problem in the lower Holte and North. It's caused particular problems for me because of my physical situation. As I said, I've loved sitting in the Holte for the last 12 years.

But since August I've had to stand. All game, every game. Just because huge swathes in front of me now suddenly don't want to sit down. And I just can't do that, so, regretfully, I'm now out of there.