US Presidential election | Page 74 | Vital Football

US Presidential election

Gills 58 said:
Because they put a lot of effort into brokering the peace deal, no doubt putting pressure on the people who used to fund raise for the IRA.

Anyway, we are now seeing the consequences of Johnson's Brexit. He blatantly lied to the DUP regarding borders and paperwork. Mr Teflon will get away with it as usual.
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He blatantly lied 58 and it’s a disgrace.
I would however add that the other side (EU) are not totally blameless in it, playing the political game of reinterpreting the Belfast Agreement.
It’s something that I know a fair bit about given that I spent time in NI when I worked in the observation business.
The agreement clearly states that any change can only be with the consultation of the affected parties. Nobody asked the Unionists if they consented to a border between them and the U.K. Neither Johnson or VDL.
I’d also add that there is no section of the agreement that says that there cannot be a border between NI and Ireland, merely that any such border must not include any form of troops.
If fact there are numerous mentions of the border in the agreement.

My take is that Johnson signed up to the protocol full in the knowledge that it’s actually unworkable and will eventually dilute back to the original position.
The more insurrection against it, the more embarrassing it becomes for both sides.
 
shotshy said:
He blatantly lied 58 and it’s a disgrace.
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Agreed. Trust in politics was already low. Blatant lies won’t help.

In the real world, CEOs get sent to prison for intentionally misleading the market. It’s unacceptable that the same doesn’t apply to politicians and that they can hide behind Parliamentary Privilege.

shotshy said:
There is no section of the agreement that says that there cannot be a border between NI and Ireland, merely that any such border must not include any form of troops.
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Talk of an electronic border isn’t realistic either - even if it is seamless. Cameras will become a target so will need to be protected. Protection requires troops!


shotshy said:
My take is that Johnson signed up to the protocol full in the knowledge that it’s actually unworkable and will eventually dilute back to the original position.
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I think you’re right on that. Johnson et al were repeatedly about Ireland and, at least publicly, they were quite dismissive. But I think they knew what would happen.

I cannot see the situation getting diluted. One thing that the EU will not relax on is the integrity of the Single Market. That is the single most important ideological point of the EU.
 
"I cannot see the situation getting diluted. One thing that the EU will not relax on is the integrity of the Single Market. That is the single most important ideological point of the EU."

We'll see when they start taking pot shots at enforcement officers.
If they can't find locals to do the checks, then the checks won't happen.
 
shotshy said:
He blatantly lied 58 and it’s a disgrace.
I would however add that the other side (EU) are not totally blameless in it, playing the political game of reinterpreting the Belfast Agreement.
It’s something that I know a fair bit about given that I spent time in NI when I worked in the observation business.
The agreement clearly states that any change can only be with the consultation of the affected parties. Nobody asked the Unionists if they consented to a border between them and the U.K. Neither Johnson or VDL.
I’d also add that there is no section of the agreement that says that there cannot be a border between NI and Ireland, merely that any such border must not include any form of troops.
If fact there are numerous mentions of the border in the agreement.

My take is that Johnson signed up to the protocol full in the knowledge that it’s actually unworkable and will eventually dilute back to the original position.
The more insurrection against it, the more embarrassing it becomes for both sides.
Click to expand...
Did Johnson "lie" ?
Or did the anti-Brexit commentariat peristently and wilfully mislead ?
Scare stories were usually about physical checks, causing traffic log-jams.

Johnson was clear that there would be no physical checks.....

Anti-Brexit types then moved the goal-posts by claiming that Johnson meant all "checks", even paper / electronic ones - when clearly the EU demands meant some sort of reporting of goods entering N.I.

N.I. websites provid einfo and advice about "declarations" - but no mention of physical checks at the border.
(Live-stock may be inspected at the destination, but AFAIK, such checks by vets have always been a possibility.)

While there are plenty of moans about "bureacracy", I cannot find reports of physical checks taking place.
(although they are always possible to counteract smuggling or for food products.)
 
GFA was a poor deal.
It promised all parties that it actually meant their best case. It promised the nationalists convergence with the Republic because we all know that Partition was originally conceived in sin and, hence, illegitimate, and history was finally resuming its natural course with a bit of a nudge.. It promised the Unionists the status quo on the basis of dwindling majority right now and who cares about them in the future because we all know that Partition was conceived in sin etc etc.

At some point, the rivets had to start popping out. The Brexit surprise got them pinging sooner than expected, that's all.

It's funny how the claim that we can't leave the EU because of what about the border -is a reason for remaining for people who like the EU, and a reason for getting out while we still can for people who do not like it.

Brussels, London and Dublin have all turned Northern Ireland into a high stakes/high profile game when they should have played it softly softly and worked for low key, non-precedent fudge solutions. There is some justification for Dublin and London doing this -the basic integrity of their states is arguably at stake. Brussels is doing it for a duff principle -the integrity of the single market does not have to be in question because there's a small leak on the island of Ireland. If I were Dublin, I'd be very worried about how my communautaire instincts had got me into the frontline in the fight for Brussels' principles.
 
jokerman said:
GFA was a poor deal.
It promised all parties that it actually meant their best case. It promised the nationalists convergence with the Republic because we all know that Partition was originally conceived in sin and, hence, illegitimate, and history was finally resuming its natural course with a bit of a nudge.. It promised the Unionists the status quo on the basis of dwindling majority right now and who cares about them in the future because we all know that Partition was conceived in sin etc etc.

At some point, the rivets had to start popping out. The Brexit surprise got them pinging sooner than expected, that's all.

It's funny how the claim that we can't leave the EU because of what about the border -is a reason for remaining for people who like the EU, and a reason for getting out while we still can for people who do not like it.

Brussels, London and Dublin have all turned Northern Ireland into a high stakes/high profile game when they should have played it softly softly and worked for low key, non-precedent fudge solutions. There is some justification for Dublin and London doing this -the basic integrity of their states is arguably at stake. Brussels is doing it for a duff principle -the integrity of the single market does not have to be in question because there's a small leak on the island of Ireland. If I were Dublin, I'd be very worried about how my communautaire instincts had got me into the frontline in the fight for Brussels' principles.
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Very precise jokerman.
The volume of trade between Ireland and the North and visa verca is peanuts .
It’s a red herring in the grand scheme.

Would Ireland want to take on responsibility for the north ?
I’d doubt it .
Could they afford it?
I doubt it.
 
Tarian said:
Did Johnson "lie" ?
Or did the anti-Brexit commentariat peristently and wilfully mislead ?
Scare stories were usually about physical checks, causing traffic log-jams.

Johnson was clear that there would be no physical checks.....

Anti-Brexit types then moved the goal-posts by claiming that Johnson meant all "checks", even paper / electronic ones - when clearly the EU demands meant some sort of reporting of goods entering N.I.

N.I. websites provid einfo and advice about "declarations" - but no mention of physical checks at the border.
(Live-stock may be inspected at the destination, but AFAIK, such checks by vets have always been a possibility.)

While there are plenty of moans about "bureacracy", I cannot find reports of physical checks taking place.
(although they are always possible to counteract smuggling or for food products.)
Click to expand...
I’m quite fed up with answering your gibberish but in this case I will. We’ve all seen Johnson at the reception for NI businessmen telling them if there are any forms to fill in then bin them or send them to him. Your efforts to defend the indefensible are pathetic.
 
The pledge said:
Everything is ready and in place. Just the timing that is not known. Mad (sic) March and early April .
Just a warning , if u want to believe me, the stock market will crash, so anyone with money invested get it out. Lots of people are already doing it.
Diana and trump ?
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Any news yet Pledge?

I got a paper cut on my thumb and some 99 year-old bloke with health concerns died. Apart from that it’s been a quiet March / early April. Stock market has performed really well too. Calm before the (delayed) storm?
 
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