DeanoVilla
One Bloody Number
Ok. Well there are 3 in the division who haven;t made as many this season i'll grant you that.
There are 20 that have made more.
There are 20 that have made more.
Time for a new manager?
- Thread starter Fulford
- Start date
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
See point proven! lol
McParlandTheGreat
Vital Champions League
Think it's an open question of whether he stays or goes. Depends a lot on where we end up at the end of the season.
I was hoping that if we're promoted then we'd do so with a team with a core we're confident of doing it in the PL; the PL is not the place to rebuild. Don't think we have that, and we should. The reason why Newcastle have survived, without Benitez having much to spend, is that he got the team playing well enough in their promotion year.
Would Bruce build such a team next year if we're not promoted? I have my doubts.
I was hoping that if we're promoted then we'd do so with a team with a core we're confident of doing it in the PL; the PL is not the place to rebuild. Don't think we have that, and we should. The reason why Newcastle have survived, without Benitez having much to spend, is that he got the team playing well enough in their promotion year.
Would Bruce build such a team next year if we're not promoted? I have my doubts.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
We got too lost in spending in my humble, to my mind Bruce has actually overperformed but once the club said 'promotion is all' every other variable went out the window in terms of a team gelling - not being able to shift players properly etc.
With more targeted options for Bruce and not so much deadwood and choice I think he would actually do better.
With more targeted options for Bruce and not so much deadwood and choice I think he would actually do better.
sirdennis
Alert Team
I do like Bruce. 8 wouldn't be against Dean Smith though nothing to do with being a villa fan but he did well at Walsall and has brent ford punching well above their weight and playing good football into the bargain. I think he has a similar profile to Sir Brian and although he would be something of although gamble it eould be less of a gamble than some
"Merd"
Vital Football Hero
Like with anything else, we have to remove any emotion from the decision making process.
We cannot make a clear judgement on where we would be if he hadn't come, but it wasn't looking rosy. Should we be doing better than we are currently, again a matter of perception.
My only concern is whether I see an improvement in the style of football on offer. And the truth of it is that I don't. Yes results have broadly improved but we have not dominated teams in this league and lost too many games that we were entitled to think we should have at least competed.
SB just doesn't fill me with confidence that we can go up and compete with his brand of football. I might be wrong and he is exactly what we need for the first season. Would I keep him on if we don't go up? Again, given FFP and we will be playing the kids I'm just not sure that he is the right fit. I can see the appeal of a Wagner or a Smith, but there is an inherent risk with any change.
My own philosophy would be more akin to Nuno's and not Steve's - I think we have slightly better players on average than the league, but haven't utilised the advantage. We have also seen a lot of loans that have held back our own players development.
Ultimately it is a results driven business and I think we will part company if Villa don't go up. If we go up, I think he will get a shot at it. Should we change? Only if change brings improvement and I can't see a queue of quality managers lining up to manage a newly promoted team with all the challenges that it brings.
We cannot make a clear judgement on where we would be if he hadn't come, but it wasn't looking rosy. Should we be doing better than we are currently, again a matter of perception.
My only concern is whether I see an improvement in the style of football on offer. And the truth of it is that I don't. Yes results have broadly improved but we have not dominated teams in this league and lost too many games that we were entitled to think we should have at least competed.
SB just doesn't fill me with confidence that we can go up and compete with his brand of football. I might be wrong and he is exactly what we need for the first season. Would I keep him on if we don't go up? Again, given FFP and we will be playing the kids I'm just not sure that he is the right fit. I can see the appeal of a Wagner or a Smith, but there is an inherent risk with any change.
My own philosophy would be more akin to Nuno's and not Steve's - I think we have slightly better players on average than the league, but haven't utilised the advantage. We have also seen a lot of loans that have held back our own players development.
Ultimately it is a results driven business and I think we will part company if Villa don't go up. If we go up, I think he will get a shot at it. Should we change? Only if change brings improvement and I can't see a queue of quality managers lining up to manage a newly promoted team with all the challenges that it brings.
Merlin128777
Vital Squad Member
Am I grateful to Steve Bruce for turning a toxic club around profoundly.
A decent man and deserves our gratitude but the problem is I do not think his tactical nounce is good enough. Watched his interview back on the Leeds game he mentioned Keenan Davis and how he ripped Norwich apart at Villa Park earlier in the season great Steve so why not play him in the away match if he did so much damage first time around ?
I am sure there are many better examples but to be honest compared to most of our most recent managers Bruce looks like a genius but be wary you are talking about a very low bar and some very poor managers to compare him against. I still believe that managers like Bruce & Warnock get found out in the premiership and we will get a few hidings if promoted should we still want to go up even if we know we will come back down oh yes money talks £100 mill in tv rights and parachute payments much as I hate it yes money talks.
A decent man and deserves our gratitude but the problem is I do not think his tactical nounce is good enough. Watched his interview back on the Leeds game he mentioned Keenan Davis and how he ripped Norwich apart at Villa Park earlier in the season great Steve so why not play him in the away match if he did so much damage first time around ?
I am sure there are many better examples but to be honest compared to most of our most recent managers Bruce looks like a genius but be wary you are talking about a very low bar and some very poor managers to compare him against. I still believe that managers like Bruce & Warnock get found out in the premiership and we will get a few hidings if promoted should we still want to go up even if we know we will come back down oh yes money talks £100 mill in tv rights and parachute payments much as I hate it yes money talks.
pvb1968
Vital 1st Team Regular
Let's get one thing straight , we blew the chance for 2nd spot because of the managers failure to utilise the squad properly , failing to motivate and being tactically out thought when it mattered. With what we have available please don't pretend anything other than a top 6 place was acceptable. As it is we have the play offs and all the talk of who we want but alas Norwich and qpr are not in them and any repeat of those pathetic performances will see planing for wembley pointless.
sirdennis
Alert Team
To be fain though we haven't had kodjia all season and didn't get Jack back until Christmas and if you take your 2 most creative players out of any side then you are going to struggle a bit. Had we had those 2 fully fitted all season then I am sure we would have gone up automatically
DeanoVilla
One Bloody Number
Games like Norwich and QPR can happen to the best of them.
Look at Wolves. They got thumped 4-1 by us, drew with Hull and Norwich, both at home, and lost to Fulham and Notts Forest...... all in the last 3 months.
Norwich and QPR are not the reason for us not going up. As said, games like that happen.
The reason for us not going up automatically is 2 fold.
1) The points tally amassed by Wolves, Cardiff and Fulham is crazy. In a lot of seasons over 80 points (which it seems certain we will get) would have been enough for automatic promotion.
2) Our slow start. We only got 7 points from our first 7 games. People forget this. Nearly 20% into the season and we were in relegation form. Since then we've gone on to get 72 points from the next 36 games which is easily auto promotion form.
Yes you could blame Bruce for the slow start, but you could also say he was still in the early days of turning around this rotten stinking club that he inherited, and also that for those first 7 games he was without key players such as Grealish, Kodjia and Jedinak.
Since he got people fit, got the best out of Adomah, brought in Snodgrass, brought in Agnew we've actually been pretty decent.... barring the odd game like QPR and Norwich which like I've shown with Wolves can happen to anyone.
Look at Wolves. They got thumped 4-1 by us, drew with Hull and Norwich, both at home, and lost to Fulham and Notts Forest...... all in the last 3 months.
Norwich and QPR are not the reason for us not going up. As said, games like that happen.
The reason for us not going up automatically is 2 fold.
1) The points tally amassed by Wolves, Cardiff and Fulham is crazy. In a lot of seasons over 80 points (which it seems certain we will get) would have been enough for automatic promotion.
2) Our slow start. We only got 7 points from our first 7 games. People forget this. Nearly 20% into the season and we were in relegation form. Since then we've gone on to get 72 points from the next 36 games which is easily auto promotion form.
Yes you could blame Bruce for the slow start, but you could also say he was still in the early days of turning around this rotten stinking club that he inherited, and also that for those first 7 games he was without key players such as Grealish, Kodjia and Jedinak.
Since he got people fit, got the best out of Adomah, brought in Snodgrass, brought in Agnew we've actually been pretty decent.... barring the odd game like QPR and Norwich which like I've shown with Wolves can happen to anyone.
DeanoVilla
One Bloody Number
It's all about opinions PVB.
Personally in a playoff situation my biggest hope is we have a manager in charge who has numerous promotions under his belt and had forged a team with a good spirit and desire to play for him.
Personally in a playoff situation my biggest hope is we have a manager in charge who has numerous promotions under his belt and had forged a team with a good spirit and desire to play for him.
JW1985
Vital Champions League
Personally I think if we don't get promotion this season he should go. That was his only target this season, we had it in our own hands after the blues game and we blew it. If we go up I'd lean towards giving him a go in the premier league but I think he'd be out of his depth.
Lots of people seem to favour Dean Smith and many others seem dead set against it. Not sure about him myself but I don't think he's a terrible suggestion. He's kept Brentford consistently top half despite them losing half their team every summer and having to cobble together a squad on the cheap. Plus he can apparently get Scott Hogan scoring on a regular basis so there's obviously something about him. Seeing as next season we'll be doing things on the cheap he might not be such a terrible option. Of course there's a big difference between managing Walsall and Brentford and managing Aston Villa. Many more experienced managers than him have been over awed by it.
Lots of people seem to favour Dean Smith and many others seem dead set against it. Not sure about him myself but I don't think he's a terrible suggestion. He's kept Brentford consistently top half despite them losing half their team every summer and having to cobble together a squad on the cheap. Plus he can apparently get Scott Hogan scoring on a regular basis so there's obviously something about him. Seeing as next season we'll be doing things on the cheap he might not be such a terrible option. Of course there's a big difference between managing Walsall and Brentford and managing Aston Villa. Many more experienced managers than him have been over awed by it.
McParlandTheGreat
Vital Champions League
Not sure about the "more experienced managers have been over awed". MON wasn't. Don't think Houllier was. The managers we've had since? McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde and RDM. Wouldn't say these were experienced, in the right way.
What puzzles me is the way Wolves can play match after match and still appear fresh enough for the next one, and we can't. Is it the age of the players? Is it the style we play?
We have a squad of sufficient depth such that we ought to be able to last the season, whereas we often run out of steam. We don't seem able to rest players, because the backups often don't perform. And Steve isn't too keen on resting.
If we stay down, I think we need to solve that. We'll probably still have a better squad than most and ought to be able to do it. I think it needs to be built into our whole approach, and the style we play. Is Steve the one to do it? Trouble is I don't think we really have a style. I think that's down to the manager, and also the quality of the coaching staff.
What puzzles me is the way Wolves can play match after match and still appear fresh enough for the next one, and we can't. Is it the age of the players? Is it the style we play?
We have a squad of sufficient depth such that we ought to be able to last the season, whereas we often run out of steam. We don't seem able to rest players, because the backups often don't perform. And Steve isn't too keen on resting.
If we stay down, I think we need to solve that. We'll probably still have a better squad than most and ought to be able to do it. I think it needs to be built into our whole approach, and the style we play. Is Steve the one to do it? Trouble is I don't think we really have a style. I think that's down to the manager, and also the quality of the coaching staff.
Just got back from a week up in Brum, taking in the two games and six points and a guarenteed play off place and the first thing I see is the long lost sack Bruce thread has made a re-appearance.
Can we please have this discussion after the play offs are won or lost and the outcome of our season is known.
Can we please have this discussion after the play offs are won or lost and the outcome of our season is known.
Silhillvilla
Vital Football Legend
Poor timing , lock til post play offs
