crimsondonkey
Vital 1st Team Regular
So if you had a free choice then between Pep and DS who would you pick?
The Official Dean Smith Thread
- Thread starter Melon Donkey
- Start date
- Status
Villan57
Alert Team
That's like saying if you had a choice between Messi and Jack Grealish
crimsondonkey
Vital 1st Team Regular
It's quicker if you just said Pep
sirdennis
Alert Team
Messi hasn't done it on a cold night in Rotherham.
Villan57
Alert Team
Not many of us have mate
Melon Donkey
I am a little bit perplexed
And whilst people like you dismiss people like me as deluded, this club will forever remain small time.
Bang average. Then when I say that, I get slated.
Average Villa.
Well I typed a long reply which I ballsed the format up.
Can't be bothered to type it again.
I haven't dismissed your opinion just disagree using a strong term.
I have never slated you for saying we are average. That accusation is not relevant to me
We are bang average as a club , we have won one league title in 110 years. This wasn't news to me as it appears to suddenly be a thing.
Doesn't stop my love or ambition for the club . It is what it is. Meh.
Oh and stop being a defensive fanny.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Well I typed a long reply which I ballsed the format up.
Can't be bothered to type it again.
I haven't dismissed your opinion just disagree using a strong term.
I have never slated you for saying we are average. That accusation is not relevant to me
We are bang average as a club , we have won one league title in 110 years. This wasn't news to me as it appears to suddenly be a thing.
Doesn't stop my love or ambition for the club . It is what it is. Meh.
Oh and stop being a defensive fanny.
Not defensive at all, it is called debating, and I didn't accuse you of saying anything above, other than you called anyone who thought Villa could try for Poch as deluded.
I can't see how calling others deluded as anything other that what you said you didn't want to be, rude... but then, on the flipside, I couldn't particularly give an arse if people think I'm deluded. I support a bigger club than some of you and your easy ways of saying we can't attract top managers or players.
Money and ambition talk.
It is that simply.
Ya fucktard.
Last edited:
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
McParlandTheGreat
Vital Champions League
Pep could do a lot with our players; he's that good a coach. It's the coaching he lives for. Some players wouldn't fit his methods; they'd leave after the first year. But the others would flourish.
No he wouldn't win the PL in the first year or second, but I reckon we'd be comfortable mid table by the end of the first year, with something solid to build on. Think that's what most top coaches would do for us.
If Ancelotti is OK for Everton, a club where the squad has gone stale, that class of manager would be OK for us. Ambition.
crimsondonkey
Vital 1st Team Regular
Not defensive at all, it is called debating, and I didn't accuse you of saying anything above, other than you called anyone who thought Villa could try for Poch as deluded.
I can't see how calling others deluded as anything other that what you said you didn't want to be, rude... but then, on the flipside, I couldn't particularly give an arse if people think I'm deluded. I support a bigger club than some of you and your easy ways of saying we can't attract top managers or players.
Money and ambition talk.
It is that simply.
Ya fucktard.
Clearly people are operating under very different ideas about how to take the club forward and be genuinely competitive.
Some seem to think that buying second rate players from the Championship under a below bang average coach is the way forward
I guess the counter argument is that throwing stupid enormous amounts of money and trying to recruit the best talent on the pitch and on the coaching staff is unrealistic and tilting at windmills and in any case would bankrupt the club in the unlikely event it happened.
It doesn't really matter which one you subscribe to, the main issue at the moment is that its not particularly clear which one the owners are aiming to follow - they definitely need to be clearer. Although the fact they are looking like keeping DS and have brought in a bargain basement Sporting Director does rather point to the former...
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Clearly people are operating under very different ideas about how to take the club forward and be genuinely competitive.
Some seem to think that buying second rate players from the Championship under a below bang average coach is the way forward
I guess the counter argument is that throwing stupid enormous amounts of money and trying to recruit the best talent on the pitch and on the coaching staff is unrealistic and tilting at windmills and in any case would bankrupt the club in the unlikely event it happened.
It doesn't really matter which one you subscribe to, the main issue at the moment is that its not particularly clear which one the owners are aiming to follow - they definitely need to be clearer. Although the fact they are looking like keeping DS and have brought in a bargain basement Sporting Director does rather point to the former...
Totally. Be fascinating who we bring in really, but it is time to put up or shut up. Can't keep saying this is a big club if it doesn't act that way.
If Rafa went to a struggling Newcastle AND followed them down to the championship, then tell me why not?
A top manager will have a record of punching above their weight, improving a team season by season, win ratios which are better then a previous manager given the same squad. Generally speaking top managers attract top clubs, because top clubs want the best managers.
Amongst other managers and ppl in the know, top managers are known and headhunted by the bigger clubs. It’s not an exact science and they do get it wrong.
It’s like formula 1 for example, amongst the drivers it’s known that alonso is one of the best on the grid despite only winning 2 championships. It’s also known that vettel is quite average and only won 4 titles because he had the best car.
How do we know DS wouldn’t win league with Man City? We don’t for sure, but it’s similar to saying ‘How do you know benrahma would be a de bruyn if he was in the Prem’
We can only go on what we know now, what has been done.
DS has never been to a top club and performed at that level, so it’s a risk.
However, someone like Klopp has been there and done it, he’s shown he can manage successfully at that level, under that pressure. He’s proven he can gain the respect of world class players, motivate them, organise them and use successful tactics at the highest level of football.
Being successful in league 3 doesn’t necessarily mean one would be successful in the Prem.
Not quite
Messi and Grealish have both showed they can perform brilliantly at the highest level.
DS is an unknown, how would DS perform at Man City? Might do better then Pep, but also might be a complete flop.
Has DS shone at Villa, no I wouldn’t say so. Ok, circumstances have been difficult but his win ratio has been pretty much the same as Steve Bruce before him.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
fucktard.
You called dear?
Platypus
Vital Football Hero
That's a pretty shitty strawman argument if you'll let me be blunt. NO ONE thinks second rate players under a below bang average coach is the way forward. They disagree with you about what constitutes a) "second rate players", b) "a below bang average coach" and even c) what constitutes "the way forward".Some seem to think that buying second rate players from the Championship under a below bang average coach is the way forward
Some people think that an acceptable way forward is to climb 5 or so places above where we finished this year and that some of the players linked and our current coach could be up to that task. It's fine that you disagree, but why would anyone think that having a shit team and a shit coach will help us progress? You think the players and the coach are shit and that's a valid argument, but the people you're talking about don't think that.
Melon Donkey
I am a little bit perplexed
Not defensive at all, it is called debating, and I didn't accuse you of saying anything above, other than you called anyone who thought Villa could try for Poch as deluded.
I can't see how calling others deluded as anything other that what you said you didn't want to be, rude... but then, on the flipside, I couldn't particularly give an arse if people think I'm deluded. I support a bigger club than some of you and your easy ways of saying we can't attract top managers or players.
Money and ambition talk.
It is that simply.
Ya fucktard.
Not defensive at all, it is called debating, and I didn't accuse you of saying anything above, other than you called anyone who thought Villa could try for Poch as deluded.
I can't see how calling others deluded as anything other that what you said you didn't want to be, rude... but then, on the flipside, I couldn't particularly give an arse if people think I'm deluded. I support a bigger club than some of you and your easy ways of saying we can't attract top managers or players.
Money and ambition talk.
It is that simply.
Ya fucktard.
Little bit of attention to detail wouldnt hurt
What I said was that people were deluded if they think Poch would come to us. Didnt mention about trying .
We can try all we like as far as I'm concerned. Crack on. Maybe we have already and he has already done what I think he will do and turn us down at this point in time.
How is mine an easy way of saying we can't attract top managers or players. Just because I see it differently in that it doesn't matter what ambition we say about, we can talk a big game, but doesn't change the fact that we have been average for years and years on the pitch and off it where it counts . Thats where we are, that's what people in the game see us and I don't see that one promotion and 17th place changes that currently.
We wait and see what the owners plan . Not alot if I'm reading between your lines.
crimsondonkey
Vital 1st Team Regular
Yes you're right. Some people do think that St Dean is a legend and that relegated fodder and the Brentford front line are Premier League quality...
That they think that doesn't make it actually true though, far from it
Melon Donkey
I am a little bit perplexed
Pointless comparing 2016 Newcastle with 2020 AVFC .
2 different clubs with 2 different owners at the time and now and whom have also trod different paths in their history.
Feel free to enlighten me with any in depth knowledge you have of the reasons:-
A - why Rafa went there .
B- why he stayed .
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Little bit of attention to detail wouldnt hurt
What I said was that people were deluded if they think Poch would come to us. Didnt mention about trying .
Not sure if you are trying to get a rise, you would have to try a lot harder.
I know exactly what you put and I didn't like it. More as a point of order to the way I like this forum run, rather than being, as you delicately putting it, defensive/fanny.
I don't like stupid name calling. To dismiss a few who have talked about ambition and trying for top pedigree managers, either like Poch, or actually Poch, as deluded is just as wrong as if one of those, including me, came on and said anyone who thinks we can't go for top managers are twats.
Do we need to do the name calling to debate?
Maybe you do. If so, go for it, I'm sure those of us who believe this big club could act big and succeed will survive.
- Status
