The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 323 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

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Not sure why so many refuse to entertain the possibility of a top manager such as Poch coming to Villa when it’s happened to clubs like Newcastle who got Rafa in the very recent past!

So I say yes, if a Rafa or Poch were given the right incentive (enough money) then it’s not impossible to have them at Villa.

If DS was overridden by Suso in the last 2 transfer windows I don’t mind cutting him some slack and giving him another season. However if someone like Rafa or Poch could be appointed it would be madness to say no.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
So do average managers. Not sure what your point is.
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I'm saying that top managers want to be out there in a job. There's some they won't look at, but there are some they will.

No reason to assume that Poch wouldn't look at a job from us. We have enough in our favour to sell it to him, if we tried. Might still say no, but might not.

Re top managers looking for squads with top players. Not necessarily. We bought players with potential, and mainly young. Much more interesting for managers to work on those than try and school "top experienced players" into what they want.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
He won't, but he's already turned down numerous offers including Monaco apparently, as he and his team are waiting for the right project, whatever that is.
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Whilst still perfectly capable, in my humble, Poch's next choice of a job isn't about a project per se. It's about getting a squad he can quickly win (something of meaning) with to end the 'Poch won nothing' debate.

That's his focus. That's why he turned against Levy and made his thoughts about a complete rebuild, a refocus and I think I'm quoting 'a squad to match the stadium' was all about. He was bored of the 'punching above their weight' cracks and he wants silverware.

It's why I'm a massive supporter of us going balls and bollocks out for him (even though I'm back in the stick with DS camp but there are questions) but I'm more likely to grow a vagina this weekend than it happening.

We are not what he's after unless he seriously has no other option - and in that case, would we want him anyway?
 
McParlandTheGreat said:
I'm saying that top managers want to be out there in a job. There's some they won't look at, but there are some they will.

No reason to assume that Poch wouldn't look at a job from us. We have enough in our favour to sell it to him, if we tried. Might still say no, but might not.

Re top managers looking for squads with top players. Not necessarily. We bought players with potential, and mainly young. Much more interesting for managers to work on those than try and school "top experienced players" into what they want.
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No, of course, any manager would look at the Villa job if it became available. There is so much to sell.

The thing we can't sell though is Champions League football, so any top manager we go after is going to have to see it as a long term project.

And yeah, good point re young players with potential but all I can think of is Luiz and Konsa, and maybe the likes of Barry from the youth set up. There's not a whole lot there really.
 
Ok. Been keeping my own counsel because I didn’t want to come across as rude but I need to get this off my chest.

In my humble, at this current time in our supposed ‘development‘ back to any sort of powerful club people are totally deluded if they think Poch will come to us.
 
mike_field said:
Whilst still perfectly capable, in my humble, Poch's next choice of a job isn't about a project per se. It's about getting a squad he can quickly win (something of meaning) with to end the 'Poch won nothing' debate.

That's his focus. That's why he turned against Levy and made his thoughts about a complete rebuild, a refocus and I think I'm quoting 'a squad to match the stadium' was all about. He was bored of the 'punching above their weight' cracks and he wants silverware.

It's why I'm a massive supporter of us going balls and bollocks out for him (even though I'm back in the stick with DS camp but there are questions) but I'm more likely to grow a vagina this weekend than it happening.

We are not what he's after unless he seriously has no other option - and in that case, would we want him anyway?
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Well your first paragraph would rule him out then Mike, he won't be winning anything quickly with Villa unless we give him a blank cheque.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Ok. Been keeping my own counsel because I didn’t want to come across as rude but I need to get this off my chest.

In my humble, at this current time in our supposed ‘development‘ back to any sort of powerful club people are totally deluded if they think Poch will come to us.
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You kept your counsel and I've been saying it for weeks! lol

I'd still love him though.

(I'd still love him though - I put that in brackets)
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
Well your first paragraph would rule him out then Mike, he won't be winning anything quickly with Villa unless we give him a blank cheque.
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And we can't give a blank cheque....but we could promise maximum investment season on and on and on...and that is our only hope (if we have a hope of Poch).

Again, I reference him as the type of step up we need (no disrespect to DS) but he's built Saints and Spurs and won nothing - and that's all people talk about. He wants to win, our only shot genuinely is 'you spend our break-even and we'll spend what debt we have to give you more'.

He won't take it, as it's still a project with no guarantee. You don't get to the CL final and bitch your squad isn't good enough to win and fans should be happy they are there.
 
mike_field said:
And we can't give a blank cheque....but we could promise maximum investment season on and on and on...and that is our only hope (if we have a hope of Poch).

Again, I reference him as the type of step up we need (no disrespect to DS) but he's built Saints and Spurs and won nothing - and that's all people talk about. He wants to win, our only shot genuinely is 'you spend our break-even and we'll spend what debt we have to give you more'.

He won't take it, as it's still a project with no guarantee. You don't get to the CL final and bitch your squad isn't good enough to win and fans should be happy they are there.
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He also inherited two decent squads at Saints and Spurs, it's a lot easier when you already have the players there.

I do agree we need that type of step up eventually, but I still think we should give DS better to work with, give him a few months and see where we are.
 
At Saints Poch had a squad which had just scraped promotion. And he left Spurs with a much improved squad, albeit one growing stale because of lack of money for new blood from Levy.

Just my point of view, but I think most of our young squad have potential and would improve in the right hands. And based on this season I don't think those are DS's hands, although I'd love to be proved wrong. The squad needs adding to and developing, not ripping apart.
 
mike_field said:
It's why I'm a massive supporter of us going balls and bollocks out for him (even though I'm back in the stick with DS camp but there are questions) but I'm more likely to grow a vagina this weekend than it happening.

We are not what he's after unless he seriously has no other option - and in that case, would we want him anyway?
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mike_field said:
You kept your counsel and I've been saying it for weeks! lol

I'd still love him though.

(I'd still love him though - I put that in brackets)
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You need to spend time with @ASPINALL :wub::love::love1:
 
mike_field said:
You kept your counsel and I've been saying it for weeks! lol

I'd still love him though.

(I'd still love him though - I put that in brackets)
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Yes. I wouldn’t say no.

Although my head now says Smith deserves more time as he got the job done (just) . But we need to progress and I need to see progression from Smith. It is perfectly reasonable to argue that Smith has done a fantastic job in the last 18 months, promotion with squad that was not his, complete rebuild and that rebuild being done while trying to make headway in the toughest of leagues. I admit time wavering in the heat of the relegation shit show we were in but the job was completed . As much as I dreaded a season of durge following our unexpected promotion, in my heart I knew it would be thus. So I would say it is job done but it cannot happen again next season. Progression is the name of the game for me now , whether with or without Smith. Don’t care.
I think it’s massively harsh to throw the ‘championship manager’ at Smith when he has achieved promotion and survived (just) in the premier league. It’s certainly not a view shared outside these 4 walls with other fans I speak to and what I read in the punditry world. If there is no progression next season and we are again having this conversation then I think the harsh ‘championship manager’ will not be so harsh. Lots of creaming over Chris Wilder on here over the season. Rightly so in some respects but what happens if he gets relegated this coming season?. More creaming on here ?. What is he then premier league or championship?.Think we have to hold our horses a bit before we label a manager one thing or another after such a short time. We do judge some players and managers too quickly . Fcuk me we are now needing to get Gueye back after he appeared in the shit show of 2016, and Adama is not a crap as was thought , Veretout, Amavi even sulky chops Ayew are not doing too badly.

I am however too long in the tooth to get my knickers in a twist about Smith staying or going. With the level that Poch has operated at if he came in at the expense of Smith how could I not be anything but enthused by that. So I would be completely cut throat and say thanks but goodbye to Smith.

But I am also a realist. We are in our predicament because of the amateur way Lerner treated the club and before him Ellis. As said Poch is a level above where we are currently , like it or not , we are not in a position to attract him whether we have the finances or not. This is not the way if the footballing world of 2020. That’s not to say I deem the owners as unambitious, it’s too early for that aswell in my humble. If the owners are the real deal then they have a heck of alot of years of shite to reverse. It’s like the Titanic doing a 3 point turn.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Ok. Been keeping my own counsel because I didn’t want to come across as rude but I need to get this off my chest.

In my humble, at this current time in our supposed ‘development‘ back to any sort of powerful club people are totally deluded if they think Poch will come to us.
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And whilst people like you dismiss people like me as deluded, this club will forever remain small time.

Bang average.
 
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And it isn't a supposed development.

This is Aston Villa. A big club that always acts small. If they wanted to act big, they would be able to, it has the potential amongst others, but very few others.

You spend the money on the top managers, if the Barca's and Real Madrid types don't come in for you, you take the best other job you can get. Not sure how many clubs have a vacancy but I do know there are a lot of managers after very few jobs.

Sorry to be rude, but those who can't see it are simply deluded. :grinning::Fingers::lol:
 
So What is a top manager? Someone who has won the PL , only 10 people have managed that with No Englishman amongst them, Two Scots Sir Alex and Kenny Dalglish.

Sir Alex Ferguson – Manchester United (1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13)

Arsene Wenger – Arsenal (1997-98, 2000-01, 2003-04)

Jose Mourinho – Chelsea (2004-05, 2005-06, 2014-15)

Pep Guardiola – Manchester City (2017-18, 2018-19)

Kenny Dalglish – Blackburn Rovers (1994-95)

Roberto Mancini – Manchester City (2011-12)

Manuel Pellegrini – Manchester City (2013-14)

Antonio Conte – Chelsea (2016-17)

Claudio Ranieri – Leicester City (2015-16)

Jurgen Klopp - Liverpool (2019-20)

Top Managers or Top clubs with loads of money?

Pellegrini is available, don't see a queue for him as he's past it as are some of the others

Do we measure managers by trophies or by how big a club they have managed or what they have done at smaller clubs on a budget, do we see top 4 or 6 places as acceptable or good depending on the size of the club they have been at?

How do we know that if Dean Smith managed Man city they wouldn't win the PL or that Pep could manage Villa to promotion then safety, neither have done it nor had to do it in Peps case?
So is Pep a good manager or just a very lucky man to have managed 3 big clubs, who were already up the top when he got the nod.

Everton has a so-called top manager, he's not made much impact despite the cost of the players he's had at his disposal,. A top manager or Meal ticket manager on the slide.
Looks like top managers are only top managers when they are at top clubs?
 
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