McParlandTheGreat
Vital Champions League
Are they fixing any pre-season games? Can't see the lads getting their "training" sunfest in Arizona or somewhere this year. Or even a beerfest along the Rhine. Maybe just a bash with Blues. Or maybe not ...
The Official Dean Smith Thread
- Thread starter Melon Donkey
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JuanPabloAngel
Alert Team
david-avfc
Vital Football Hero
They had a few closed door friendlies before the restart so assume it would be the same this time, friendlies against local teams. Can’t see any overseas training bases this year
crimsondonkey
Vital 1st Team Regular
Hope this is Deano showing he's learned from last year and will be going into this season with a new approach, rather than just stating the bleedin' obvious!
https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...dean-smith-i-was-a-bit-naive-in-first-season/
https://www.expressandstar.com/spor...dean-smith-i-was-a-bit-naive-in-first-season/
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Yeah, was mentioned somewhere the other day, maybe the 'who is coming and going thread' I can't keep up!
Thing is, it just looks ridiculous to me, we had players, coaches and of all positions, the manager learning on the job. This is meant to be a big club with big ambitions and we have inexperience everywhere.
Are the lessons over now, can we get down to business?!
Not exactly the way to be taken seriously if we want to attract top players is it?!
crimsondonkey
Vital 1st Team Regular
Not my choice of how to do things but this is the road the owners have taken us down.
I still think it’s the wrong strategy but have no say in the matter in any case.
All we can hope is that it doesn’t backfire and we see enough progress this season.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
We need a manager who doesn't take up to the last 4 games to realise you have to be pragmatic, one that can attract higher quality players, one not learning on the job.
Get what you are saying, but it is a bit sad it took him that long to realise isn't it?
I'm not sure how we can continually accept this crap really. The caveat is the transfer window isn't done yet, and it is obvious he is staying, so no good riling against it, however, you look at who Ancelloti is going for at a club nowhere near the potential of Villa ground, fans, training facilities wise.
I bet Ancellotti doesn't have selfies taken with the players and talk about going out for a few pints with their star after scraping survival. A little point perhaps, and one some of you will think petty, but top managers and indeed, winners, don't act like this. Then again, top clubs don't celebrate survival like they've won the league, they just do it privately, re-group and plan never to be so shit again.
#unpopularopinion
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Oh yes he does! PMSL A quick Google search showed he even photobombed Gareth Bale! lol
Everton are a more interesting comparison. They went with Koeman, Fat Sam, Silva and then Ancellotti. They've already spent big for each of those managers minus Carlo until this summer I think.
In a similar league position they keep pivoting on manager and still ending up lower half - having spent well double what we did in 3 seasons they were only 15 odd points ahead of us.
I'd actually say they are proof of how not to do it with their overspend, with the caveat I'd kill for Digne at left back as he was a snip at £25m.
Everton are a more interesting comparison. They went with Koeman, Fat Sam, Silva and then Ancellotti. They've already spent big for each of those managers minus Carlo until this summer I think.
In a similar league position they keep pivoting on manager and still ending up lower half - having spent well double what we did in 3 seasons they were only 15 odd points ahead of us.
I'd actually say they are proof of how not to do it with their overspend, with the caveat I'd kill for Digne at left back as he was a snip at £25m.
buggyvillan
Vital Reserves Team
It was embarrassing.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
You wouldn't have Ancelotti over Smith MF? Or another top line manager?
the point remains, a club of our size could set its stall out. If it doesn't want to, that is ok, stop talking about putting the club back to the top and competing. The one does not fit the other. The talk is only any good when you back it up.
We are just as much proof, on spending money, how not to do it. Everton have been poor, we've been relegated and in the wilderness, then came back and circled the drain again. I'd take the average return by Everton over what we've done.
We have actually spent a kings ransom over the last 10 years or so, but what we have never done is build a solid foundation, that starts with the right people at the top, the right playing style decided and the right managers.
Now if Ancelloto goes in for a top player, they will know who he is.
If Smith goes for a top player, they will not.
Who would you choose? Seriously. As a player with no affiliation or real knowledge of either club?
And I do take your point re Everton not achieving much, but then, he's not long since got his teeth into them. They have drifted a long time.
If I was an outsider looking in, I'd look at Villa as a far bigger club. But I'd look at our manager and their manager and easily bet on them being higher in the league than us.
We will see, but a manager that didn't know he had to be pragmatic in the PL, and openly admitting that during the re-start, is not the sort of manager I'd expect to be in a job at a big club.
MAYBE... if I try to tap some semblance of positivity - but this yanks my fucking chain every single time I think about it (and you all know it isn't hindsight, I was fuming last summer at this talk as well!) .. he has finally learned. Maybe the coaches have, and certainly Shakespeare coming is positive, I've had that from a few former players who know him as well, good move, phew. So maybe we can push on a little.
I just see the inevitable happening though, not many games in, fans turn again, and off we go again.
It seems to be the Villa way.
the point remains, a club of our size could set its stall out. If it doesn't want to, that is ok, stop talking about putting the club back to the top and competing. The one does not fit the other. The talk is only any good when you back it up.
We are just as much proof, on spending money, how not to do it. Everton have been poor, we've been relegated and in the wilderness, then came back and circled the drain again. I'd take the average return by Everton over what we've done.
We have actually spent a kings ransom over the last 10 years or so, but what we have never done is build a solid foundation, that starts with the right people at the top, the right playing style decided and the right managers.
Now if Ancelloto goes in for a top player, they will know who he is.
If Smith goes for a top player, they will not.
Who would you choose? Seriously. As a player with no affiliation or real knowledge of either club?
And I do take your point re Everton not achieving much, but then, he's not long since got his teeth into them. They have drifted a long time.
If I was an outsider looking in, I'd look at Villa as a far bigger club. But I'd look at our manager and their manager and easily bet on them being higher in the league than us.
We will see, but a manager that didn't know he had to be pragmatic in the PL, and openly admitting that during the re-start, is not the sort of manager I'd expect to be in a job at a big club.
MAYBE... if I try to tap some semblance of positivity - but this yanks my fucking chain every single time I think about it (and you all know it isn't hindsight, I was fuming last summer at this talk as well!) .. he has finally learned. Maybe the coaches have, and certainly Shakespeare coming is positive, I've had that from a few former players who know him as well, good move, phew. So maybe we can push on a little.
I just see the inevitable happening though, not many games in, fans turn again, and off we go again.
It seems to be the Villa way.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Being flippant more than anything but you know me lol.
I'd say Everton's business has been atrocious since Moshiri took over. I much prefer the way we are trying to do it with a plan and for now that means sticking through the bad with Smith.
But that doesn't obviously mean we haven't been atrocious as well, we're at least just not lurching.
The only real difference (for little in league position based on supposed ambitions) is Everton have gone for named managers and appointed a Sporting Director with a proper name and success behind him.
I wouldn't call Suso that, but Lange is roughly similar on success to Marcel Brands (Denmark v Holland) and yes, Shakespeare coming in does also change things (in a way Terry couldn't because of his own experience).
Regardless, a bad start and I think we have a newbie come January.
I also don't buy into the named manager as much when it comes to targets, 12-18 month shelf life for everyone other than Wenger in many ways, short of a player physically wanting to work for a set manager, I don't think these days the name matters because no player signs a 3yr deal expecting the same gaffer to still be in charge. The experience might help a younger player, but the wages overrule the lot.
Again, there's lots of agreement I think, just a slight differing on current priorities to get us to where we want to be.
I'd say Everton's business has been atrocious since Moshiri took over. I much prefer the way we are trying to do it with a plan and for now that means sticking through the bad with Smith.
But that doesn't obviously mean we haven't been atrocious as well, we're at least just not lurching.
The only real difference (for little in league position based on supposed ambitions) is Everton have gone for named managers and appointed a Sporting Director with a proper name and success behind him.
I wouldn't call Suso that, but Lange is roughly similar on success to Marcel Brands (Denmark v Holland) and yes, Shakespeare coming in does also change things (in a way Terry couldn't because of his own experience).
Regardless, a bad start and I think we have a newbie come January.
I also don't buy into the named manager as much when it comes to targets, 12-18 month shelf life for everyone other than Wenger in many ways, short of a player physically wanting to work for a set manager, I don't think these days the name matters because no player signs a 3yr deal expecting the same gaffer to still be in charge. The experience might help a younger player, but the wages overrule the lot.
Again, there's lots of agreement I think, just a slight differing on current priorities to get us to where we want to be.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Well, I can out flippant you..
{Flippant mode on:}
What, the way we do it... buy shit, expect them to turn from a sows ear to a silk purse, realise they are still shit, have the manager learning on the job, coaches not coaching, and circling the drain the entire season? Bore the fans to death with awful football and the feeling we couldn't even buy a win.
Celebrate like we'd won something at the end of the season to kid the fans that we had, indeed, won something.
I'm no expert, looked a poor policy to me though.
Not to worry, we used to be a big club.
I think I'll keep the flippant mode on a while if that is ok?
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Well, I want to be back challenging to win things. The current policy points towards lower league and/or confusing the Champions League with The Championship doesn't it?
{flippant mode now off}
{Fear also now off}
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Just spotted the edit, or I'm blinder than I thought (which given I thought we were in the transfer thread is entirely possible! lol).
No, I don't actually rate Ancellotti. One of those managers that gets the plum jobs and is remembered for mild successes with them when in many ways you could stick a monkey in charge and they'd still end up with a trophy.
ie Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea, Pep etc.
They do what they do well but unless you give them the perfect squad and spend squillions they are midtable fodder on top 4 wages. No doubt good blokes, but someone like Smith/Klopp/Silva have a drive that Mourinho/Pep/Ancellotti no longer have because they've already had success.
And yes I also take the point Smith didn't change quick enough to have much confidence, but at least he changed having I presume - stepped back from being wrapped up in wanted 'his club' to sprint before it could crawl.
Re spending, I'd also say no as we had to rebuild the squad, Everton didn't. We agree the balance could've been better, but at least we didn't spunk £50m on a rarely scoring winger from Watford to then play him through the middle.
No, I don't actually rate Ancellotti. One of those managers that gets the plum jobs and is remembered for mild successes with them when in many ways you could stick a monkey in charge and they'd still end up with a trophy.
ie Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea, Pep etc.
They do what they do well but unless you give them the perfect squad and spend squillions they are midtable fodder on top 4 wages. No doubt good blokes, but someone like Smith/Klopp/Silva have a drive that Mourinho/Pep/Ancellotti no longer have because they've already had success.
And yes I also take the point Smith didn't change quick enough to have much confidence, but at least he changed having I presume - stepped back from being wrapped up in wanted 'his club' to sprint before it could crawl.
Re spending, I'd also say no as we had to rebuild the squad, Everton didn't. We agree the balance could've been better, but at least we didn't spunk £50m on a rarely scoring winger from Watford to then play him through the middle.
"Merd"
Vital Football Hero
My take, for what it is worth (not a lot), is that relegation and the financial implications, together with Xia bleeding money on players with no resale value, is costing us dearly. We are not in a position yet to pay the wages of a top quality manager and the demand from him for top quality players.
We are kind of in limbo and accepting that we are playing a dangerous game, while improving the player profile. Transfrmkt has the squad valued at over £200m currently whereas when we came up the squad was worth less that £100m. The positive is that we have players worth something and if we can get Hogan et al out of the door we will have more room for growth.
It is a slow process, but a necessary evil.
We are kind of in limbo and accepting that we are playing a dangerous game, while improving the player profile. Transfrmkt has the squad valued at over £200m currently whereas when we came up the squad was worth less that £100m. The positive is that we have players worth something and if we can get Hogan et al out of the door we will have more room for growth.
It is a slow process, but a necessary evil.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Hope so merd, maybe after decades, I'm just impatient. I don't really buy we can't attract better, but when it comes to Villa acting small, I always will be the angry guy in the room, I've shout for years about us being a big club, big potential and frankly, I'm hoarse...!
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
Well, I can out flippant you..
{Flippant mode on:}
What, the way we do it... buy shit, expect them to turn from a sows ear to a silk purse, realise they are still shit, have the manager learning on the job, coaches not coaching, and circling the drain the entire season? Bore the fans to death with awful football and the feeling we couldn't even buy a win.
Celebrate like we'd won something at the end of the season to kid the fans that we had, indeed, won something.
I'm no expert, looked a poor policy to me though.
Not to worry, we used to be a big club.
I think I'll keep the flippant mode on a while if that is ok?
You'll keep your flippant hands off me, we aren't that kind of friends!
Mings is now an international, as is McGinn, as is Grealish (somewhat! lol), as is Wesley, as is Luiz - I think Engels received a call up pre injury and so on. Guilbert impressed for some, as did Konsa, as did Nakamba (although my jury is still out).
We aren't batting a 100 but no club does. Going into lockdown it was boring as we weren't learning, but prior to that it was frustration as we all know we should've had more points outside of cock ups etc and we didn't have an open top parade for survival, so I don't mind that relief coming out either. And we also weren't in the relegation zone for that long and had 4/5 clear opportunities to get out once we were.
Given how we started the season, as poor as it sounds, that's a success in relative terms under new owners - especially if you then factor in the wasted last decade under previous ones.
Smith learnt - not quick enough, maybe not enough, but he's earned to start the season and I want him to succeed. I have my doubts, but even if he doesn't, again referencing Everton and their far greater wasted spend, we won't be the only ones with mis-steps.
As for other post, you know that's what I want as well (we all do). I just expect a transition through survival/midtable/top ten/top six/top four/title. It won't be overnight and Smith won't be with us for all of it, but we need to finally build a foundation and a style of play whilst watching the finances and although Purslow is right in the sense FFP shouldn't be a problem for any PL club - that doesn't mean we can chuff £500m in a window, which is what would be needed to skip two steps ahead - and even then no guarantees. Look at Arse, Everton, Man U etc the way they have spent chasing.
I'll say again, 14th or above this year, no relegation battle - anything but that is failure based on the Board's own words in my humble. That would be growth but I hope we strengthen in a manner that says we are already at least aiming for top ten - if not more.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
I agree with that insofar as it applied to last season.
Survival saw us wipe the slate clean in basic terms (for the most part). This year we have to step up, as does Smith in terms of showing what he can do from the sidelines possibly in a more impartial way than he spend most of last season - given we are his club.
"Merd"
Vital Football Hero
We still have a financial hangover. Purslow alluded to us having to be PL for a few years before we can pay PL wages - hence the signing of younger player from the Juniper League.
JW1985
Vital Champions League
Can't say I'm a huge Ancelloti fan. I think he's been on auto pilot for years and it'll show this season, unless his passion has been reignited with a new challenge at Everton.
They have been splashing cash around for half a decade now with absolutely zero to show for it bar a bunch of "big name" managers they're probably still paying off and a lot of expensive flops. Again perhaps this season it'll be different for them and the big names will work out.
As for Smith he's obviously staying for another season barring a disaster of some kind, which is entirely possible if we don't get a move on and get some players in. I wouldn't have minded if we'd said goodbye and brought in someone else, depending on who it was of course.
They have been splashing cash around for half a decade now with absolutely zero to show for it bar a bunch of "big name" managers they're probably still paying off and a lot of expensive flops. Again perhaps this season it'll be different for them and the big names will work out.
As for Smith he's obviously staying for another season barring a disaster of some kind, which is entirely possible if we don't get a move on and get some players in. I wouldn't have minded if we'd said goodbye and brought in someone else, depending on who it was of course.
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