Should Corbyn be national unity government pm | Page 9 | Vital Football

Should Corbyn be national unity government pm

Fact check. The individuals, who have delayed and stopped Brexit so far , are those who voted against each and every plan and the negotiated agreement. They are/were an assortment of Remainers, Leavers, ERG types and included members of every party.

Francois and co indicate that they would find other stuff to vote against if Johnson negotiaited the withdrawal of the back stop. There is no group large enough to to push any type of Brexit through parliament, which is how the plan to time out came about. It's a mess and we could at least admit that and stop accusing one another of sabotage, betrayal and the like.
 
Absolutely correct jogills.
When I voted to leave, it was on the assumption that we would leave sensibly.
Due to bad government, it was a total bodge from the start and almost inevitable that it would end in tears.

Would I prefer a WA.
Absolutely, but not this one that ties the UK in until the EU say we can go.
That is no way to start a trade negotiation.
 
Sad to say but basically we are not really much further forward than we were in June 2016 when the referendum was held. Thank you very much Mrs May and her cronies for wasting 3 years. Just remember it was her who said we needed "strong and stable government to deliver Brexit" - joke of the bloody century.
 
When the result came through, a few colleagues and I were enjoying a pre shift coffee in the morning sun in the station yard and I said then, and I quote "it means nothing really, I can't see us ever leaving the EU" and that was just a flippant throw away remark.............
 
I also agree with jogills.

I can believe that Francois and his hardliners actually wants a No Deal, in the same way that some of the remainers (LibDems, SNP, Grieve, Adonis) actually want to cancel Brexit without even the need for a second referendum.

The rest of us either want, or will accept, leaving with a deal.

The extent to which our MPs no longer follow the will of the electorate is shown in relation to the Corbyn debate. 12.8 million UK citizens voted for the Labour Party in the last election knowing that success would mean that Jezza would be PM and yet Swinson discounts him as not credible because not enough MPs like him. If I was him, I would wear that assessment as a badge of honour.

Similarly, if MPs had taken a leap of faith that we could have legally challenged the use of the Backstop as a bargaining tool in trade negotiations at a later date (the Attorney General said that could be done if the EU was shown as using it in bad faith), then Mays WA would have passed and we would only have been bound by its terms until the transition period was over. Those two years actually seem like a very short period in compared to how long our MPs are taking to sort it out.
 
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Wansalarf said:
Just heard that joke on Breakfast News - I didn't understand it then either!
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It is based up a Milton Jones joke:

"What's driving Brexit? From here it looks as if it is probably the Duke of Edinburgh"

The joke is the idea that the process is swerving all over the place until it crashes into something.
 
Arthurly said:
Cancelling Brexit without a 2nd referendum has NEVER been LibDem policy.
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Jo Coburn - what kind of brexit could you accept.
Jo Swinson - none.

Coburn - would you accept the result of a second referendum if the result was the same.
Swinson - no. I would carry on campaigning to stop it.

Liberal but certainly not a democrat
 
jogills said:
Fact check. The individuals, who have delayed and stopped Brexit so far , are those who voted against each and every plan and the negotiated agreement.
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I don't disagree with essence of what you wrote, but there is the conspiracy feeling that May (who campaigned weakly to remain) deliberately negotiated an agreement she knew was unlikely to be ratified in parliament. The DUP and other groups had already stated they opposed an open backstop agreement and would vote against any such agreement prior to May then agreed to an ongoing backstop.
 
Wansalarf said:
Wayne.Kerr said: What will you tell Spanish farmers whose goods will be hit with a 40% tariff when entering the UK?"

Bullocks!
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The government haven't announced what tariffs would be applied on goods, Wayne's figure of 40% tariff rate has simply been pulled out of his arse.

What is really reflective of the question of "what would you tell Spanish farmers" is the idea that the UK government has some sort of responsibility towards the Spanish despite the fact Spain is not part of the UK.
 
We can all pick holes in any agreement, or lack of one. We can argue forever about second votes and the rest but..... if May's deal had gone to a referendum it would have passed with room to spare. I am not saying it should have gone to a referendum just that it would certainly have been accepted. Events overtook that one and now a whole lot of people are wedded to no deal, renegotations from wonderland and stopping Brexit altogether.

Timing out is the worst possible outcome but it looks as if we are collectively incapable of doing much else. That's a cause for embarrassment all round in my book.
 
jogills said:
Fact check. The individuals, who have delayed and stopped Brexit so far , are those who voted against each and every plan and the negotiated agreement. They are/were an assortment of Remainers, Leavers, ERG types and included members of every party.

Francois and co indicate that they would find other stuff to vote against if Johnson negotiaited the withdrawal of the back stop. There is no group large enough to to push any type of Brexit through parliament, which is how the plan to time out came about. It's a mess and we could at least admit that and stop accusing one another of sabotage, betrayal and the like.
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Factcheck.
The W.A. was not "Leaving" in any true sense.
It meant being subject to EU laws old and new (which even Remain MPs didn't like) and the ECJ, until such time as the EU had agreed that the Irish border alleged "problem" had been resolved ....... and £ 39 billion.
Which, with the EU export surplus carrying on "business-as-usual", meant that the EU had no incentive to end the supposedly "temporary" W.A.

And of course the big lie, unchallenged on the MSM, is that the Leave campaign said we expected to leave with this "deal", i.e. the Withdrawal Agreement.
We expected to leave with a Trade Deal.

Can anyone find a mainstream commentary from 2016 talking about a "Withdrawal Agreement" ?
 
jogills said:
We can all pick holes in any agreement, or lack of one. We can argue forever about second votes and the rest but..... if May's deal had gone to a referendum it would have passed with room to spare. I am not saying it should have gone to a referendum just that it would certainly have been accepted.
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That's just an assertion.
3-way polls (Leave vs W.A. vs Remain) consistently had Leave with no W.A. over 30%.
A fair campaign could easily have pushed that higher.
Even without a Referendum, last week's poll had 44% "just get out".
People have been getting wise to the awfulness of the W.A. - as well as disbelieving "shortages of food and medicine"
(Who is going to block incoming food and medicine - and "why"?)
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
So you dismiss the idea that Remainers have done what they can to either delay or stop brexit? So Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP saying they will do what they can to stop brexit is fake news? Or the likes of Gina Miller going to court to make it legally more difficult to brexit without terms equivalent to terms we'd need to follow if we remained in the EU? Gina Miller is a right wing conspiracy that never existed? Or what about the remain MPs who have demanded a 2nd referendum where people vote if they wish to now remain or if to leave then what sort (with no Deal not an option)?

Definitely the brexiteers doing the delaying /insert eye rolling smilie
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In 2017, 17.4 million people had the chance to get the brexit they wanted, by voting UKIP. Less than 600,000 did so. You all bottled it. Sunderland, for example, voted overwhelmingly to leave, and backesd that up this year in the euro elections, but in 2017, they voted in 3 labour MP's, all staunch remainers. Leavers need to look in the mirror to see why we are where we are with brexit
 
Tarian said:
(Who is going to block incoming food and medicine - and "why"?)
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Isn't the more related to concerns over delays rather than blocking. If any form of customs checks are performed then that adds minutes per lorry which when added together result in massive queues according to some. Any delay at Dover (or Calais) quickly mounts as we have seen with bad weather / strikes.

I suspect the concern is more on perishable foods. If we can all live off tins of spam it really will be the blitz spirit that Boris thinks will get us through this.
 
mehmets_curlies said:
In 2017, 17.4 million people had the chance to get the brexit they wanted, by voting UKIP. Less than 600,000 did so. You all bottled it. Sunderland, for example, voted overwhelmingly to leave, and backesd that up this year in the euro elections, but in 2017, they voted in 3 labour MP's, all staunch remainers. Leavers need to look in the mirror to see why we are where we are with brexit
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Those traditional Labour voters would have seen the election as being a couple of years of Brexit and then three years of UKIP supported Tories. I suspect that a proportion of the Labour leavers were looking beyond Brexit in their vote in the expectations that Brexit would be finished in one way or another.
 
markinkent said:
Isn't the more related to concerns over delays rather than blocking. If any form of customs checks are performed then that adds minutes per lorry which when added together result in massive queues according to some. Any delay at Dover (or Calais) quickly mounts as we have seen with bad weather / strikes.

I suspect the concern is more on perishable foods. If we can all live off tins of spam it really will be the blitz spirit that Boris thinks will get us through this.
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Even with perishable foods like fruit and veg you can keep them in the fridge for close to a week without the food becoming a poisonous mush. There are only a few things like prawns where you need to chuck them out after their use by date.

One of the great scams in terms of food wastage is convincing people they need to dispose of food the day after the best before or use before date. The amount of wasted food could easily go to help the sort of people who rely on food handouts. Of course, the likes Tescos would be happy with people buying food, chucking stuff out earlier and then buying more.
 
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