Should Corbyn be national unity government pm | Page 10 | Vital Football

Should Corbyn be national unity government pm

Baghdad_Rob said:
The government haven't announced what tariffs would be applied on goods, Wayne's figure of 40% tariff rate has simply been pulled out of his arse.

What is really reflective of the question of "what would you tell Spanish farmers" is the idea that the UK government has some sort of responsibility towards the Spanish despite the fact Spain is not part of the UK.
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This the website from my arse - 38% sorry

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-will-sheep-farmers-suffer-in-a-no-deal-brexit
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
Nothing has been offically agreed or confirmed by the government at this moment in time. That article is speculation only.

For someone who gets upset when people speculate, you are happy to offer speculation as proof when it agrees with you.
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Then look at the WTO website
 
mehmets_curlies said:
In 2017, 17.4 million people had the chance to get the brexit they wanted, by voting UKIP. Less than 600,000 did so. You all bottled it. Sunderland, for example, voted overwhelmingly to leave, and backesd that up this year in the euro elections, but in 2017, they voted in 3 labour MP's, all staunch remainers. Leavers need to look in the mirror to see why we are where we are with brexit
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In 2017 voters believed that May's Tories were on track to deliver Brexit 9 months later.
In June 2017 little did they know that Civil Service Remainers were drafting "Chequers" (July 2017 ?), that became May's "Withdrawal Agreement".

So voters focused on domestic Manifestos.
Despite a dire Tory offering, they still won ..... because UKIP many voters feared a Labour/SNP coalition and voted Tory (thinking Brexit was "done").
 
markinkent said:
Isn't the more related to concerns over delays rather than blocking. If any form of customs checks are performed then that adds minutes per lorry which when added together result in massive queues according to some. Any delay at Dover (or Calais) quickly mounts as we have seen with bad weather / strikes.

I suspect the concern is more on perishable foods. If we can all live off tins of spam it really will be the blitz spirit that Boris thinks will get us through this.
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Even "delays" are vastly exaggerated.
I've done Eurotunnel again ...... and NO-ONE* gets to drive straight through to the train. Everyone gets delayed, either in the car park, or the waiting lanes.
A half-minute paper check or barcode scan barely be noticed.

*Theoreticallly possible to dive straight on after midnight.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
Wrong. We can actually pick and choose what rate of tariff we want to apply. The only requirement under WTO rules is that the tariff rate applies to all.
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Indeed that is the case but the EU has to apply the same tariffs on its UK imports as it does on imports from other non-EU countries. plus, when the UK Govt decides on tariff rates, it has to consider what level might be required in order to protect home industry, commerce and agriculture.
 
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Tarian said:
Even "delays" are vastly exaggerated.
I've done Eurotunnel again ...... and NO-ONE* gets to drive straight through to the train. Everyone gets delayed, either in the car park, or the waiting lanes.
A half-minute paper check or barcode scan barely be noticed.

*Theoreticallly possible to dive straight on after midnight.
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In a car as a tourist or in a freight vehicle importing/exporting goods ?

I suspect, but will be honest enough to say that I don't know, that customs clearance will be more than a 30 second check. Maybe if we had implemented the required infrastructure that's all it should need. Thing is we haven't.
 
Tarian said:
Even "delays" are vastly exaggerated.
I've done Eurotunnel again ...... and NO-ONE* gets to drive straight through to the train. Everyone gets delayed, either in the car park, or the waiting lanes.
A half-minute paper check or barcode scan barely be noticed.

*Theoreticallly possible to dive straight on after midnight.
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What about the cost to industry, traders and farmers etc in producing/dealing with customs declarations, payment of VAT and tariffs on entry or simply installing systems to cope with all the foregoing none of which existed with the single market? In addition, the Govt is employing thousands [up to 8,000 in various forecasts] of extra customs officials to deal with matters post-Brexit.
 
markinkent said:
In a car as a tourist or in a freight vehicle importing/exporting goods ?

I suspect, but will be honest enough to say that I don't know, that customs clearance will be more than a 30 second check. Maybe if we had implemented the required infrastructure that's all it should need. Thing is we haven't.
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The vast majority of shipments (98%) go through on the basis of pre-notification by registered (trusted) shippers and hauliers.

Checkout the Rotterdam website, (largest container port in Europe), handling imports from "WTO" countries.
Container seals are checked and barcodes scanned - in seconds.
Upon leaving, containers lorries drive through arches "sniffing" for dodgy substances or unexpected heat (stowaways?).
Only "red flags" get pulled over.

IIRC, Eurotunnel has around 8000 lorries per day. (4000 each way)
HMRC boss, Jon Thomson has no plans to inspect more shipments.
For the first 6 months, EU lorries arriving without pre-registration will be waived through and told what to do next time. (see website).
If 1% are inspected, that would be 2-3 an hour. Inconvenient for the truckers pulled over ( which can happen now) - but not an obvious cause of general delay.

Of course there will be some extra admin - behind the scenes - but border delays seem vastly exaggerated.
And many shippers already do import/export admin anyway - so no surprises or "cliff edges".
Lastly, even some EU shipments have admin - for EU's Intrastat.

Eurotunnel HAS implemented infrastructure.
Not only on the ET website, but one can see the many empty truck lanes by the entry gates.
 
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Wayne.Kerr said:
What about the cost to industry, traders and farmers etc in producing/dealing with customs declarations, payment of VAT and tariffs on entry or simply installing systems to cope with all the foregoing none of which existed with the single market? In addition, the Govt is employing thousands [up to 8,000 in various forecasts] of extra customs officials to deal with matters post-Brexit.
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The cost of employing a Customs Broker is rarely more than €120 for the first container. Regular shippers pay (IIRC) €60-70.
Frequent shippers can DIY for less.(.... and I know a very small business that DIYs customs admin)

For many businesses customs admin (non-EU) exists TODAY - so the only change is volume.

So no-one is saying "no cost" - but hardly a "catastrophe" .
 
I don't claim to know much about this but surely bug container ship ports like Rotterdam and Southampton are subtly different to roll on roll off ports like Dover.

Those container ships have been at sea for weeks. Loads of time to get the paperwork in place. Lorries could turn up at Dover with minimal pre-notice.

Are you comparing like with like between dover and southampton/Rotterdam?
 
Tarian said:
That's just an assertion.
3-way polls (Leave vs W.A. vs Remain) consistently had Leave with no W.A. over 30%.
A fair campaign could easily have pushed that higher.
Even without a Referendum, last week's poll had 44% "just get out".
People have been getting wise to the awfulness of the W.A. - as well as disbelieving "shortages of food and medicine"
(Who is going to block incoming food and medicine - and "why"?)
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Assertions eh... "A fair campaign could easily have pushed that higher". Which poll of last week, they contradicted one another. "Getting wise to the awfulness of the WA", rather my point that today we are all settling into bunkers. There was a moment when we might easily have left with an agreement.

And your assertion about people getting wise to shortages is the greatest assertion of all. In my limited experience there are two camps: the doomsday brigade and the British miracle brigade. They are now both determined to believe what they want to believe. You dug your trench very early on, that is all.
 
jogills said:
Assertions eh... "A fair campaign could easily have pushed that higher". Which poll of last week, they contradicted one another. "Getting wise to the awfulness of the WA", rather my point that today we are all settling into bunkers. There was a moment when we might easily have left with an agreement.

And your assertion about people getting wise to shortages is the greatest assertion of all. In my limited experience there are two camps: the doomsday brigade and the British miracle brigade. They are now both determined to believe what they want to believe. You dug your trench very early on, that is all.
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Yougov have support for no deal at 48%.

I posted the link before , but just in case you missed it ..


https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...ebsite_article&utm_campaign=no_deal_no_corbyn
 
Tarian said:
The cost of employing a Customs Broker is rarely more than €120 for the first container. Regular shippers pay (IIRC) €60-70.
Frequent shippers can DIY for less.(.... and I know a very small business that DIYs customs admin)

For many businesses customs admin (non-EU) exists TODAY - so the only change is volume.

So no-one is saying "no cost" - but hardly a "catastrophe" .
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In either of your replies you have not considered the thousands of small businesses and farmer who trade with the EU who have never had to do anymore than a shipping invoice/airway bill and not much else. Of course, many exporters will probably go out of business once their goods are subject to the addition of a tariff when landing in the EU.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
It's an irrelevance mainly because you have clearly not understood the basis of the poll.
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I think it was pretty straight forward and the result was conclusive.

If you had to choose, would you rather have ?

Personally I'd rather have Brexit with an agreement and then Corbyn as PM, but that wasn't what was asked.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
In either of your replies you have not considered the thousands of small businesses and farmer who trade with the EU who have never had to do anymore than a shipping invoice/airway bill and not much else. Of course, many exporters will probably go out of business once their goods are subject to the addition of a tariff when landing in the EU.
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And of course, not a single EU exporter will be affected because they have a market of 500 million.
Doh ! and there was me thinking that there was a £90 billion + trade deficit.
 
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