Racism in football/booing/the knee | Page 7 | Vital Football

Racism in football/booing/the knee

danvilla2 said:
The government - the people employed to lead the country - only a couple of months ago came to the conclusion that there is no systematic racism in the U.K.. (spoiler alert, I don’t agree with that conclusion, it can’t possibly be true even in a near perfect world).

The most important people in the country, think that no such thing exists (I’m not going to pretend to know what the report covered) - yet just look at baby mortality and black babies over index in terms of such tragedies. I’m not going to speculate why, could be genetics, could be lack of trust in the public services, it could be that white people get better care and attention, who knows. Long and short of it, the vast majority of people would probably suspect such systematic racism does exist in some form, even minor.

It’s a strange phenomenon to me that football is more emotive than what the government think. Football has more positives for inclusion and diversity than pretty much anything around the world despite an under current of idiots who send or shout abuse. Social media seems to be the hotbed for problems currently, yet they seem reluctant and slow to help stem the flow of awful messages being sent.

So to sum up - the government don’t think there is a problem, Facebook won’t stop the problem, but all football fans are the problem.

Football fans and football does more for equality as football significantly over indexes with black players who are on average better than white players. Even at grass roots level, it’s being different people together in a wonderful way which other sports don’t do as well.

There’s also a soundbite this is about getting rid of all racism. Racism in sport, in the country and across the globe is a much more complicated thing to understand and resolve than probably most people who are surrounded by a culture of their own to understand. In my experience, some of those cultures who suffer the most racism are also those who are the most racist.

These things are always a bit of a pendulum, when the momentum swings too far one way (eg the hard left BLM protests), only being out the other side and tempt people who are more on one side to become more extreme.

I don’t get the knee, to me it’s not clear as I perceive it as a US gesture against their
Platypus said:
You're just arguing with thin air here, but you did tell me to not bother replying so I'll leave you to rant in peace.[/QUOTE ] Absolute unadulterated nonsense im afraid, you said a Government report, check again who compiled the report and what its conclusions it came to. What do you think "systematic " means. Then I guess if you didn't read the report or the bits that don't conform with your biases , you won't know.
problems along with being political. I know many argue it’s about “equality” but it isn’t in my opinion. Booing however is moronic, and fans should stop the distraction.

But these powerful footballers and stars such as Mings or Joshua, should avoid getting into to preaches around “black people supporting black business” and that nonsense (as someone who is from a stereotype who pays a lot of money to support both stars financially), and start boycotting the social media sites who won’t improve their procedures and start lobbying government harder to further square up the country in terms of opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Platypus said:
You're just arguing with thin air here, but you did tell me to not bother replying so I'll leave you to rant in peace.
Click to expand...
Another lazy reply from someone who clearly can't answer the other questions and on it goes on and on and on. Apart from nuanced argument what else should I help you with?
 
danvilla2 said:
I’m waiting for the day when I can’t say “you guys...” at work when referencing a group of men and women.

Even though in that context to me, “guys” is pretty gender neutral like the name Blake or Morgan.
Click to expand...

Is Morgan a gender neutral name? I'd be suspicious of a woman called Morgan.
 
Stuvilla1705 said:
Another lazy reply from someone who clearly can't answer the other questions and on it goes on and on and on. Apart from nuanced argument what else should I help you with?
Click to expand...
Well not really. a) You literally said in your reply for me to not bother replying, and b) You then started bringing in loads of strawmen, which neither I, nor to my knowledge, any of the players have said in relation to their on-pitch protest.

But let's give it a go anyway...

The Equality Act only covers direct discrimination, but not institutional and other forms of indirect discrimination arising from unconscious decisions, which of course you've already decided aren't a real thing.

Facts and figures exist. Black people on average get paid less for the same jobs, get stopped and searched more, get tougher sentences for then same crimes, even get given less anaesthetic for the same operations, just to pick a few at random.

Maybe in this instance "Educate yourself" isn't such bad advice after all?
 
gmvillan said:
It is stunning to me how people will label another person or group simply because they disagree with an opinion that may or may not have race or skin colour involved. The "new normal" doesn't account for character or knowledge, just make an assumption because they have difference of opinion.
Click to expand...

It's one of the ills of generalising without meaning to and making the assumption others know exactly what you mean when you're not quite clear.

We all do it at points, I know I certainly do lol

Again it's why I'd never get involved in chats like this on anything other than a forum basis as you can qualify, explain better etc etc - you don't stand a cat in hells chance of doing that on social media, particularly with the vitriol that carries anyway.
 
Hifriedelity said:
I think Mike might be calling it crazy as he assumes it means completely defunding rather than a budget cut.
Click to expand...

Nope, I meant it was crazy to propose it in the UK as we have a completely different Policing system and Community Care/Support setup. Defund makes all the sense in the world for the US in their setup, but we're already light years ahead of them, so it just doesn't apply here + as you reference, most of our Police budget doesn't go on stockpiling firearms that will never get used unless the aliens invade.

Should've made that clearer mate :thumbup:
 
Tom Cat said:
I could just as well say that you shouldn't call your dog a dog, because it might want to be a cat. If a paper picked up on it, it'd become a national outrage - when in truth it just came from the lips of some nutter on vital villa and isn't representative of what people actually want for equality.
Click to expand...

But you're our nutter Tom, don't feel too bad mate.:sorry:
 
Tom Cat said:
I could just as well say that you shouldn't call your dog a dog, because it might want to be a cat. If a paper picked up on it, it'd become a national outrage - when in truth it just came from the lips of some nutter on vital villa and isn't representative of what people actually want for equality.
Click to expand...

Was so tempted to change your username to Tom Dog then... I've resisted.

Go me!
 
Platypus said:
Well not really. a) You literally said in your reply for me to not bother replying, and b) You then started bringing in loads of strawmen, which neither I, nor to my knowledge, any of the players have said in relation to their on-pitch protest.

But let's give it a go anyway...

The Equality Act only covers direct discrimination, but not institutional and other forms of indirect discrimination arising from unconscious decisions, which of course you've already decided aren't a real thing.

Facts and figures exist. Black people on average get paid less for the same jobs, get stopped and searched more, get tougher sentences for then same crimes, even get given less anaesthetic for the same operations, just to pick a few at random.

Maybe in this instance "Educate yourself" isn't such bad advice after all?
Click to expand...
"The Equality Act only covers direct discrimination but not Institutional" Really? Therefore by your "logic" such as it is are not things like Courts, Education, Health, Social Services, Housing etc etc are not Institutions!!! As for your delusional "facts and figures" they are nothing more than an emotional ignorant knee jerk reaction to being challenged reasonably on your "sloganeering " , nuance free arguments which included having the uncanny ability to read the minds of "complete strangers" , what their motivation is , and why it may or may not be the same as yours. "Educate Yourself" ha ha indeed!
 
My point remains, reading this thread, many threads across many forums, the interview with a fan rep on sky and so on, that the cause has been lost in the nuance of all this.

The campaign has therefore, to me, backfired. I thought the first time, done by us as most know, at Villa Park, was dramatic. To keep doing it, and pitting an us v them, when it should be all of us together against the ignorant few (I hope it is a few) seems ridiculous.

Still wouldn't be going to a ground to boo my team though.
 
Stuvilla1705 said:
"The Equality Act only covers direct discrimination but not Institutional" Really? Therefore by your "logic" such as it is are not things like Courts, Education, Health, Social Services, Housing etc etc are not Institutions!!! As for your delusional "facts and figures" they are nothing more than an emotional ignorant knee jerk reaction to being challenged reasonably on your "sloganeering " , nuance free arguments which included having the uncanny ability to read the minds of "complete strangers" , what their motivation is , and why it may or may not be the same as yours. "Educate Yourself" ha ha indeed!
Click to expand...
PS as is the way with "debaters " of your ilk you said that I said "don't bother to reply" that was a statement in the first paragraph about where you get your information from, not the whole post as I'm sure your quiet aware.
 
The Fear said:
My point remains, reading this thread, many threads across many forums, the interview with a fan rep on sky and so on, that the cause has been lost in the nuance of all this.

The campaign has therefore, to me, backfired. I thought the first time, done by us as most know, at Villa Park, was dramatic. To keep doing it, and pitting an us v them, when it should be all of us together against the ignorant few (I hope it is a few) seems ridiculous.

Still wouldn't be going to a ground to boo my team though.
Click to expand...
It’s clear the players need to distance themselves as far as possible from “BLM” as an organised structure, which to be fair they have tried to do with the “no room for racism” campaign and comments and explanations made in the media. But I think some people want it to be “lost in the nuance” as you fairly describe it as many people either don’t want to have to care about it or because they are directly racist (not aimed at anyone specific on here btw). Personally I thought the BLM organisation and the riots which they fuelled were toxic but it’s clear racism is an issue which should be addressed in a public context which is what these players are doing so credit to them in my eyes. As per my original post on the topic, being in the ground and experiencing the reaction first hand, it’s clear more has to be done to bring people in line. I doubt all those booing are “racist” in a deliberate sense but that reaction proves a lot of people just still don’t get it.
 
So if the message isn't getting through, change the message?

I have seen - you might have - a counter to the taking the knee, via something doing the rounds on social media, saying 'the last time politics were brought into the sport' with pictures of the hitler salutes.

Seems to me, that the majority (and I think the majority if not all on here) want to be united but there are those on the far extremes of both sides of politics, who are loving the division.
 
Stuvilla1705 said:
PS as is the way with "debaters " of your ilk you said that I said "don't bother to reply" that was a statement in the first paragraph about where you get your information from, not the whole post as I'm sure your quiet aware.
Click to expand...
Do you read your posts back to yourself? Do you expect a polite reply?
 
BodyButter said:
Is Morgan a gender neutral name? I'd be suspicious of a woman called Morgan.
Click to expand...

Now we're talking. Never mind racial equality where are the transsexual players? Would they take a knee for that or take something else? Maybe lay face down on the floor for 10 seconds then get up take the knee and then kick off?
 
It's obvious this taking the knee Moto is full of mixed messages.
I don't know why they don't revert back to racism kick it out... And maybe just have the players applauding for 10 seconds or whatever.
I don't get this obsession with taking the knee.... Especially everything it's attached to.
The taking the knee really really took off as a sign for how George Floyd died. And that's what everyone sees it as.
Not everyone has the time or the passion to look into the history and meaning of taking a knee or research about anything else.
People see players taking the knee.... Automatically think of Floyd and a Marxist poisonous movement.... So they boo.
Because people don't want this rammed down our neck when we've paid 50quid for a ticket.
We've had this agenda rammed down our necks for th last 15 months. We don't want it during our enjoyment time really do we.
Kick it out is against ALL racism. Taking the knee does not in my eyes automatically equate to all racism.
Just my view.
 
BLM an idea? Ohhhhh. Great.
I will come up with an 'idea' then.... Maybe I will come out with mansions, book deals and film contracts.
Wow. Didn't know it was that easy.
Better get my thinking cap on
 
Bikini Inspector said:
Now we're talking. Never mind racial equality where are the transsexual players? Would they take a knee for that or take something else? Maybe lay face down on the floor for 10 seconds then get up take the knee and then kick off?
Click to expand...

Exactly. What about the blind? Why aren't the players doing anything the the blind. They should pull on blindfolds to show their support for the blind while the are lying on the ground for the transgenders.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.