Racism in football/booing/the knee | Vital Football

Racism in football/booing/the knee

overlookedvillan

Vital Reserves Team
#1
The Fear: Moved posts on booing from the Euro thread to here:




I thought Mings did just fine. Not sure where all the criticism in his performances is coming from. Looks dominant to me (perhaps too much so in some circumstances...)

Cody worries me and Lingardinio is back to form. Can’t control or pass a football. I have no idea how he was so good for 5-10 games, and i suspect that’s the last we’ll ever see of him in an England shirt.

PS Lee Dixon talks a load of shite
 
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danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
#2
I wonder if Mings was affected by the booing before kick off. He’s quite prominent in the taking a knee ritual.
If that’s the case and as harsh as it sounds, Mings needs to forget a minority of idiots booing before a game.

England players who get too involved or worked up by the fans and the crowd, end up being distracted or worked up and it ends in tears when they don’t concentrate or make the right decisions. Rooney, Becks and joe Hart come to mind as good examples of that, amongst others no doubt.
 

JW1985

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
I wonder if Mings was affected by the booing before kick off. He’s quite prominent in the taking a knee ritual.

He managed ok when he had a stadium booing and making monkey noises at him in Bulgaria but I suppose its different when its your own fans.

Personally I thought he was ok. Especially compared to White who I thought seemed uninterested in actually defending meaning Mings had to be everywhere at once. He's still better than Maguire, Stones, Coady, White and Godfrey though. Not as good as Konsa though who should be starting in this tournament.
 

david-avfc

Vital Football Hero
#4
If that’s the case and as harsh as it sounds, Mings needs to forget a minority of idiots booing before a game.

England players who get too involved or worked up by the fans and the crowd, end up being distracted or worked up and it ends in tears when they don’t concentrate or make the right decisions. Rooney, Becks and joe Hart come to mind as good examples of that, amongst others no doubt.
I was at the game and it wasn’t a minority. It was absolutely disgusting how loud it was. I can’t imagine why anyone would be so passionately against an anti-racism message that they’d boo they’re own team, even their own country. It would surely impact and distract anyone with a working brain, even I was taken aback by it and I’m white and nowhere as engaged with it as Mings who has been prominent with the campaign.

The experience on Sunday has definitely changed my view of racism within the game and there’s simply no debate they need to keep sending the message through until it sinks into these idiots’ brains or they fuck off and stay away from football entirely
 
#5
I was at the game and it wasn’t a minority. It was absolutely disgusting how loud it was. I can’t imagine why anyone would be so passionately against an anti-racism message that they’d boo they’re own team, even their own country. It would surely impact and distract anyone with a working brain, even I was taken aback by it and I’m white and nowhere as engaged with it as Mings who has been prominent with the campaign.

The experience on Sunday has definitely changed my view of racism within the game and there’s simply no debate they need to keep sending the message through until it sinks into these idiots’ brains or they fuck off and stay away from football entirely
They aren't booing the anti-racism or kick it out they are booing BLM the political group and their Marxist stuff Absolutely nobody ever booed Kick it out, did they?
 

astonion2

Vital Squad Member
#6
I was at the game and it wasn’t a minority. It was absolutely disgusting how loud it was. I can’t imagine why anyone would be so passionately against an anti-racism message that they’d boo they’re own team, even their own country. It would surely impact and distract anyone with a working brain, even I was taken aback by it and I’m white and nowhere as engaged with it as Mings who has been prominent with the campaign.

The experience on Sunday has definitely changed my view of racism within the game and there’s simply no debate they need to keep sending the message through until it sinks into these idiots’ brains or they fuck off and stay away from football entirely
The problem is that the more they take the knee the more these and others will boo.
 

DeanoVilla

One Bloody Number
#9
They aren't booing the anti-racism or kick it out they are booing BLM the political group and their Marxist stuff Absolutely nobody ever booed Kick it out, did they?
Which proves they just don't understand. The taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM the political group. They are taking the knee to promote equality.

Some idiot on Facebook yesterday said to me that if they linked arms he'd applaud but if they take the knee he'll continue to boo. That's how thick these people are, they are literally booing body parts rather than understanding the message people are trying to instill, that all footballers and all humans are equal.
 
#11
Which proves they just don't understand. The taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM the political group. They are taking the knee to promote equality.

Some idiot on Facebook yesterday said to me that if they linked arms he'd applaud but if they take the knee he'll continue to boo. That's how thick these people are, they are literally booing body parts rather than understanding the message people are trying to instill, that all footballers and all humans are equal.
I think it's that Sky still uses the BLM logo, not sure ITV/BBC do but just saying it's nothing to do with politics whilst still using their BLM logo is not a great idea.
Use the Kick it Out anti-discrimination logos and talk about kick it out rather than BLM.
Kick it out has seemingly disappeared in favour of BLM.

The was No booing when it was Kick it Out as I remember.
Kick it out was against anti-discrimination of all people
 

astonion2

Vital Squad Member
#12
It's not a problem. It's just embarassing for those doing it.
Its a problem for the players and the idiots that are doing it will keep on doing it. I might be wrong but is it only us that take the knee or are there players from other countries doing it. We could end up with the fans from other countries joining in making it even worse for the players. My concerns are for the players.
 

Platypus

Vital Squad Member
#13
Kick it out was against anti-discrimination of all people
And conveniently really easy to ignore for people who didn't agree with it.

The booing is counter-productive as it intensifies and prolongs the public debate, especially as it gets dragged onto the international stage of the Euros.

If the squad and management play it right, it will only bring them closer together and bring a siege mentality.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#14
Which proves they just don't understand. The taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM the political group. They are taking the knee to promote equality.
As you know, I wouldn't boo. But it is no good taking a political gesture and then giving it another definition. It was clearly attributed to BLM. So now you see the reaction to them is mixed, why not change, like other teams/other sports have, so that the message isn't lost amongst all this nonsense? Especially the fist gesture.

It is 6 of one, half a dozen of another and in the meantime, the message is totally lost.

You can clearly see the message is lost, because most of the debate is about the knee, not the underlying problem.

So no, maybe they don't understand, due to the mixed messages it sends. And you could say, maybe the authorities that backed BLM, as opposed to the much more effective kick racism out, also don't understand the use of the gesture.
 
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#15
And conveniently really easy to ignore for people who didn't agree with it.

The booing is counter-productive as it intensifies and prolongs the public debate, especially as it gets dragged onto the international stage of the Euros.

If the squad and management play it right, it will only bring them closer together and bring a siege mentality.
I was just explaining why they boo mate, really don't think football grounds are full of racists like we saw in the '70s when I was young. We've all move on from those days. I have.
 

Platypus

Vital Squad Member
#16
Taking the knee pre-existed Black Lives Matter, both the slogan and the organisation. BLM the organisation choose to organise themselves as Marxists but they are merely fundraisers for promoting the wider message of anti-racism. The "It's Marxism" argument is simply the latest reason found by racists who don't want anti-racism campaigning to be successful, but don't want to admit publicly that they are in fact racists. Anyone felt threatened by the old Marxism recently? Too much Marxism about in this country going into the 11th year of a Conservative government? It's a bigger problem than racism right now?

Abandon this and move onto the next anti-racism campaign and, if it starts to become remotely successful, just wait for the latest reason to come out that we should drop that one as well.
 

JW1985

Vital 1st Team Regular
#17

Page 1 of Das Kapital if I remember correctly.

I don't agree with people booing the players for kneeling but obviously they are free to do so. I don't think these people are booing because of some objection to Marxism or some rubbish. Do people really think Mings or Rashford are Marxists ffs. No they don't think that.

I've seen the types of twats in the media getting their knickers in a twist over this. The great "free speech advocates" like Lawrence Fox, Farage and a conveyor belt of Tory MPs including one bloke who campaigned on creating concentration camps for jobless people. I'm sorry but if they are the people arguing against something then whatever it is they hate can't be all that bad in my opinion.

As for keeping politics out of sport. Bollocks. If England win the Euros how long will it take for Boris to try to get a photo op with the team? Politicians want to use sport to bolster them but heaven forbid a sportsman be anything other than compliant. To see wankers like Farage telling a man like Mings, who has come from being a semi pro in non league to playing in a major tournament to pipe down after what he went through in Bulgaria last year certainly pisses me off.


Anyway that's my view on it. I'm not going to be changing it and I'm not looking to debate anyone. To get back on topic Super Jack is going to win England the Euros which unfortunately means at least another 2 years of Southgate.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
#18
Which then begs the question, if the fans don't understand and it can't be about Marxism and anti-capitalism, then why was the original promotion all about BLM/the fist with the group heavily promoted in the process where they raised millions.

Shouldn't the players educate themselves on what the knee has been associated with or is that fans fault as well?
 

gmvillan

The Shackles Are Off!
#19
As you know, I wouldn't boo. But it is no good taking a political gesture and then giving it another definition. It was clearly attributed to BLM. So now you see the reaction to them is mixed, why not change, like other teams/other sports have, so that the message isn't lost amongst all this nonsense? Especially the fist gesture.

It is 50 of one, half a dozen of another and in the meantime, the message is totally lost.

You can clearly see the message is lost, because most of the debate is about the knee, not the underlying problem.

So no, maybe they don't understand, due to the mixed messages it sends. And you could say, maybe the authorities that backed BLM, as opposed to the much more effective kick racism out, also don't understand the use of the gesture.
Sports has always been a (temporary) escape from politics and in my opinion it should remain just that.
For the record, I don't agree with the booing, and feel very strongly that actual action needs to be taken to curb discrimination/abuse. This taking of the knee is nothing but a gesture, and does nothing other than cause further division and resentment, and as such is actually achieving the goals set forth by their politically and financially motivated organization.
Labeling people as racists because they disagree with sports teams/leagues knowingly taking a political stance is misguided, at best. At worst it's just as discriminatory. We cannot possibly know why each individual was booing. We can speculate that some/many of them are racists, but I'd bet that some are also sick and tired of the empty gestures, hypocrisy and politics.
I completely understood the initial reaction, twelve months ago, but the sport has always steered clear of politics, and have actually set rules for, and punished individual players for displays of any political nature. By continuing to align with this particular cause in this manner, they are opening a can of worms for future protests on any issue, with very little recourse available now that the standard is established.
Taking a knee could continue for the next 1000 years, but it will do the sum total of nothing to change an individual's feelings or words. However, actual measurable action, will leave that same individual with no choice.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#20
Taking the knee pre-existed Black Lives Matter, both the slogan and the organisation. BLM the organisation choose to organise themselves as Marxists but they are merely fundraisers for promoting the wider message of anti-racism. The "It's Marxism" argument is simply the latest reason found by racists who don't want anti-racism campaigning to be successful, but don't want to admit publicly that they are in fact racists. Anyone felt threatened by the old Marxism recently? Too much Marxism about in this country going into the 11th year of a Conservative government? It's a bigger problem than racism right now?

Abandon this and move onto the next anti-racism campaign and, if it starts to become remotely successful, just wait for the latest reason to come out that we should drop that one as well.
"Taking the knee pre-existed Black Lives Matter, both the slogan and the organisation"

Of course. But it was sky, pl, fl et al who brought that very mixed movement into it and attached it to the gesture. It takes two minutes to look into their history to see some of the shaky ground they are on. So why were Kick Racism Out sidelined for it, instead of pushed even more prominently forwards.

Maybe some booing don't know what they are booing but just join like sheep. Maybe some are racist, in fact, I'm sure some will be. These ignorant ****s are in all walks of life after-all.

But as said, never saw Kick Racism campaigns booed. This one, for a myriad of reasons (not just the dismissive reason you give, that is only part of it, I am not denying it is a part of it please note) has been divisive.

That is my point. Instead of talking about the problem, people are talking about the form of protest and the authorities, including those doing it and the manager of England, are having to explain their definition and reasons.

That does not make for a good protest and shows the message has become subverted. Other sports and indeed athletes seem to have cottoned onto that.

You can dismiss all of those who are confused, angry, anti, or those booing as all racists. That is not the way to get the message through and educate or get rid of these plebs though.

I don't agree with the booing, it starts every match off on a ridiculously divided footing.

And I think that is the last I have to say on this, it is meant to be a football thread.