Racism in football/booing/the knee | Page 9 | Vital Football

Racism in football/booing/the knee

Hifriedelity said:
It's not batshot crazy to suggest defunding the police in the UK. We have gone through a long period of increasing incarceration rates to the point where we have the highest rate in Europe. Police expenditure per capita is also relatively high. All issues have to be on the table. Dismissing it as non applicable means you are effectively saying expenditure should remain where it is or increase. That doesn't make sense.
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And what would that do to knife crime? Do you have an alternative if the police were to be defunded?
In my view this is an fanatical 'idea'.
All these ideas
 
Any gesture, however noble and well meaning, that carries on too long and too frequently, eventually becomes empty and it’s continuity counter productive. Once it becomes the done thing it’s hard to end it rather like the clapping for the NHS, wonderful gesture but it had to have an end date.
Personally I find the actual “taking of the knee” unseemly and would have preferred something like a circle holding hands or something. For some unknown reason even to myself, I don’t like the term, “taking the knee”. Isn’t it just kneeling? I’m sure there’s some historical significance but I’m there to watch a football match, be entertained, not to be preached to in a manner that seems to highlight differences rather than focus on our human nature in which we are all the same.
As for the booing, shocking but not surprising. I sit by what is by and large a decent bunch at VP but the cockeyed hate and bile I often see and hear in the ground is deeply rooted and I’m sure the England team followers have more than their fair share of narrow minded tossers.
 
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Wicked Messenger said:
Any gesture, however noble and well meaning, that carries on too long and too frequently, eventually becomes empty and it’s continuity counter productive. Once it becomes the done thing it’s hard to end it rather like the clapping for the NHS, wonderful gesture but it had to have an end date.
Personally I find the actual “taking of the knee” unseemly and would have preferred something like a circle holding hands or something. For some unknown reason, even to myself, I don’t like the term, “taking the knee”. Isn’t it just kneeling? I’m sure there’s some historical significance but I’m there to watch a football match, be entertained, not to be preached to in a manner that seems to highlight differences rather than focus on our human nature in which we are all the same.
As for the booing, shocking but not surprising. I sit by what is by and large a decent bunch at VP but the cockeyed hate and bile I often see and hear in the ground is deeply rooted and I’m sure the England team followers have more than their fair share of narrow minded tossers.
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Spot on mate, we go to watch the match and for me, it's become a day out with my Son and Granddaughter. I can do without a bunch of multi-millionaire footballers doing anything but play football.
 
Wicked Messenger said:
Any gesture, however noble and well meaning, that carries on too long and too frequently, eventually becomes empty and it’s continuity counter productive. Once it becomes the done thing it’s hard to end it rather like the clapping for the NHS, wonderful gesture but it had to have an end date.
Personally I find the actual “taking of the knee” unseemly and would have preferred something like a circle holding hands or something. For some unknown reason, even to myself, I don’t like the term, “taking the knee”. Isn’t it just kneeling? I’m sure there’s some historical significance but I’m there to watch a football match, be entertained, not to be preached to in a manner that seems to highlight differences rather than focus on our human nature in which we are all the same.
As for the booing, shocking but not surprising. I sit by what is by and large a decent bunch at VP but the cockeyed hate and bile I often see and hear in the ground is deeply rooted and I’m sure the England team followers have more than their fair share of narrow minded tossers.
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This is a very valid point WM.
Just take a look at what Brentford players decided on and then take a look at Ivan Toney looking at the Swansea players as they took the knee at the Play-off final - the look on his face said it all. he was thinking 'what a bunch of idiots'.
Just to clarify, Toney and his team mates don't disagree with anti-racism in any form - quite the contrary - but as Toney said, the taking the knee is not doing much to stop it and other methods are required. Perhaps the 'Kick it Out' logo should be on the front of every shirt like the NHS logo in the play offs as a standard and the montage of Kick it Out as shown on Sky should be continuously looped before and at half time in matches.
Sadly, 'Taking the Knee' is doing everything that is counterproductive to stopping racism - it is an act that is becoming divisive.
 
Gordonsleftboot said:
As a side issue, a friend was told that he could not call his wife, 'wife' as that term implied ownership. This week I read that the term mother is no longer acceptable and a mother should now be called 'a parent who gave birth'.
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Oh brilliant!! I can't wait to tell people in the future that I am no longer referred to as a 'father' but I am now 'a parent that provided sperm'.

Just to add to this argument, on June 20th, we will no longer have 'Father's Day' but 'Sperm Provider's Day'. I can't wait to tell my daughter that she has to go into W H Smiths and ask where these cards are on the display shelves :rofl:
 
colavfc said:
And what would that do to knife crime? Do you have an alternative if the police were to be defunded?
In my view this is an fanatical 'idea'.
All these ideas
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Er yes....that’s the whole point of the argument. Less spent on the police and more spent on underlying issues that lead to knife crime.
 
Platypus said:
Spiked are former communist revolutionary party, now extreme libertarian but usually just contrarian. In short, morons. Brendan O'Neil in particular seems to think the words "working class" only means white people.

Southgate's point is the players ARE role models but that means they have to be true to themselves. I thought Southgate's article stands on its own and definitely doesn't need Spiked's warped interpretation.
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You really have zero self awareness with your comments on this subject. Today 1st it was the Daily Telegraph now Spiked, previously it was Thomas Sowell, next i expect John Barnes and Sir Trevor Philips, basically anybody and everybody including people I suspect have far, far more relevant "lived Experience" than you . You should take yourself of Social Media and stop believing everything the Guardian tells you.

Ever heard of "Critical Thinking"? People like you seem to assume it means being extra critical of people you laughably think your "debating" with and childish with your predictable replies to each and everyone of the people who see any argument of an issue such as this as nuanced.

Lastly and I promise as there really is no point in trying to get through to the likes of you with your closed mind to anything that doesn't confirm your biases. I asked you earlier whats the end game of all of this kneeling? Naturally you deflected and didn't answer. In a lot of people I know of all colours and religions and none ,who grew up in Birmingham during the 60's, 70's and 80's it is "night and day" to what happens today. Off course 2 wrongs don't make a right, but since those days so may things have been done both legally and educationally to try and rectify the historic and present day rascism, in this country which for some like you and it appears the England Football team its never enough.
Platypus said:
Do you read your posts back to yourself? Do you expect a polite reply?
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No but a coherent one would be good.
 
We need more police on the streets. Not less. We need more stop and searches not less. We need horrible people being bought to justice.
We need police patrolling more. High visibility. Manning scanning machines in entrances to high volume. Like they did in New York when they had a massive problem.
But let me guess.... People will preach about human rights, being controlled and being unlawfully targeted.
Well it's a teenagers human right not to be buried 6 foot under.
 
Stuvilla1705 said:
You really have zero self awareness with your comments on this subject. Today 1st it was the Daily Telegraph now Spiked, previously it was Thomas Sowell, next i expect John Barnes and Sir Trevor Philips, basically anybody and everybody including people I suspect have far, far more relevant "lived Experience" than you . You should take yourself of Social Media and stop believing everything the Guardian tells you.

Ever heard of "Critical Thinking"? People like you seem to assume it means being extra critical of people you laughably think your "debating" with and childish with your predictable replies to each and everyone of the people who see any argument of an issue such as this as nuanced.

Lastly and I promise as there really is no point in trying to get through to the likes of you with your closed mind to anything that doesn't confirm your biases. I asked you earlier whats the end game of all of this kneeling? Naturally you deflected and didn't answer. In a lot of people I know of all colours and religions and none ,who grew up in Birmingham during the 60's, 70's and 80's it is "night and day" to what happens today. Off course 2 wrongs don't make a right, but since those days so may things have been done both legally and educationally to try and rectify the historic and present day rascism, in this country which for some like you and it appears the England Football team its never enough.
No but a coherent one would be good.
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Lol. You swing between condescension, banal evidence-free assertion and flat out insults and I'll just leave you to it. Be sure to keep saying "nuance" like you know what it means.

Spiked. Absolutely brilliant...
 
colavfc said:
We need more police on the streets. Not less. We need more stop and searches not less. We need horrible people being bought to justice.
We need police patrolling more. High visibility. Manning scanning machines in entrances to high volume. Like they did in New York when they had a massive problem.
But let me guess.... People will preach about human rights, being controlled and being unlawfully targeted.
Well it's a teenagers human right not to be buried 6 foot under.
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I totally agree with you. We need more police funding *and* more funding for youth and community services in the UK.

"Defund the Police" is a totally legitimate thing in the US where the police have so much of public funding for fucking tanks and military equipment, yet there's almost no other public infrastructure or support, but it doesn't really translate here.
 
Villan57 said:
Like I said nobody boos Respect or Kick it out .

BLM is causing us to fall out, which is what it does. Fellow Villans falling out because of BLM when none of us and I mean none of us has any issue with Respect or Kick it out.
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I don't fall out with people who disagree with me. I fall out with people who condescend to and insult me because they think it makes them look like an intellectual.

I think the disagreement and resulting discussion is good and important.
 
The Fear said:
Oh right, the official term for that... ****s !

I'll remove the link, don't want to give that sort of shite any page impressions. Cheers.
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Is there any other publication/person that this poster disagrees with that we should not see, is there an approved list of publications/people? So far I've been "informed" by insinuation to take no notice of the Daily Telegraph, Thomas Sowell and Spiked, what next John Barnes because it appears he's in need of "education" according to Southgate & Co? In my 59 years I have learned to read and hear all sorts of views, some I agree with, some I don't, but through it all and having lived and worked in countries as diverse as China and the States plus a few others have found reading or listening to different opinions, rather than ignoring them helps. F#ck I even read comics like the Guardian and Daily Mail, but then again I don't feel threatened by different opinions or indeed people booing. I'm genuinely worried by the way ""debate " is going in this country, so if you see fit and the duck billed one approves ban me, won't change owt though. UTV
 
Who's talking of banning anything or anyone? You're not a martyr, you're a silly Billy.

What a drama queen.
 
Platypus said:
I totally agree with you. We need more police funding *and* more funding for youth and community services in the UK.

"Defund the Police" is a totally legitimate thing in the US where the police have so much of public funding for fucking tanks and military equipment, yet there's almost no other public infrastructure or support, but it doesn't really translate here.
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More of both.....the argument is about allocation of finite resources amongst different agencies to achieve an objective. More of everything is what politicians sell. I'm not sure quoting somebody essentially ranting is meaningful.
 
Platypus said:
Lol. You swing between condescension, banal evidence-free assertion and flat out insults and I'll just leave you to it. Be sure to keep saying "nuance" like you know what it means.

Spiked. Absolutely brilliant...
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Your last sentence just sums you up im afraid, where did I say I agree with anything on Spiked? Is John Barnes on your "condescending faux intellectual list " yet?
 
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