Post Brexit (n/g) | Page 8 | Vital Football

Post Brexit (n/g)

GillsBluenose said:
Exactly. There is only one issue that both delayed Brexit in the first place and is still the fly in the ointment to both sides getting what they want, and it needs addressing maturely from both sides.

The word unilaterally is in Article 16 of the Treaty, it is there in black and white, so I can not see that the EU legal action can succeed.

Power sharing needs to be returned to Stormont and so the EU does need to show pragmatism for once (red and green lanes or technology, perhaps) and help restore the smooth movement of goods from the rest of the UK to NI and back.

The ROI is still an EU member and it impacts on them so a "not our problem" approach from the EU will not wash.
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what about if both sides made an effort and stopped blaming the other.
 
chris who said:
To what,what has Brexit achieved?
Where is the mountains of money we now save?
I already posted some of the drawbacks of Brexit nobody came up with any advantages?
What have we gained apart from a Prime Minister who can't comb his hair ?
Or do anything else apart from party.
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Perhaps you missed my Post #10

By all means say that you put little value on Freedom, for the ability to hold to account our Westminster MPs (instead of moaning at remote Eurocrats).

But please don't say:
"Nobody came up with any advantages".

Here, slightly re-ordered:
>>>
As Shotshy implied, measuring success in a way that suits EU fans may turn out to be difficult.
But to Leavers the freedom - which was the main point - is already evident.

>edited<


Covid: The UK found itself free to move ahead with vaccines.
So one Credit to the UK Govt.

And like many countries, the UK pursued Lockdown - and paid many people to stay at home.
So for the loss of (personal) freedom .....and a huge £ billion bill to be paid for
Debits to the UK Govt. (and other Govts'to varying degrees)

Ukraine: The UK's response has been a reminder that, even outside the EU, the UK can respond positively (some would argue "lead").
EU fans should accept that the UK is working with EU member states.
Not "pulling up the drawbridge". Not "insular, little England".
<<<
 
Gills 58 said:
I'd add that having the worst and most incompetent Government in my lifetime has made things worse.
They want to create permanent "enemies" to shore up their support. Classic fascist playbook.
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Is "fascist" the new "racist" ?

Assuming even for one moment that "creating permanent enemies" motivates the current government....
....what has the left been doing over the last few years....
.... if not creating "permanent enemies" through its Alphabet Identities and (Approved) "Communities" ?

"If you're not with us, you must be against us"

The current Activist Left are way more "fascist" - constantly telling people how to behave and what to think - and recruiting the State in support (where they can).
 
jokerman said:
There’s a bit of chicken going on on both sides with peace on the island of Ireland and the Irish government’s security budget at stake. The EU is in no mood to be flexible, figuring the balance of forces, reason and right lies on its side, even though all sorts of fudges could work. HMG is in a mess of its own making but might be just crazy/desperate enough to risk a harder border on the island. Dublin says, mess this up the pair of you, and you drop us right in it. Both sides seem to be replying, that’s a chance we’re prepared to take.
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The logical place to have an economic border between the UK and the EU was always the Irish Republic/N.Ireland border. But, some UK and other politicians, citing their preferred connotations from the GFI, scuppered a soft "technical economic border" on Irish soil and we somehow ended up with a more disjointed border (somewhere) in the Irish Sea.

In a time where nothing appears to be "off the table" , perhaps HMG should consider a more radical method of settling the issue ? I`m alluding to a referendum ! Not an exclusive referendum on where the EU/UK border should be, instead, let them insert the Big Question. Should there be a united Ireland, governed from Dublin ?

That would set the political cat among the pigeons.

If the people, improbable as some might suggest, actually voted to unite Ireland then Dublin would inherit a mega headache and a massive demand on its security budget. If the people voted to continue the status quo, then according to how the referendum was worded, HMG could infer support to act in the best interest of N/Ireland and put the border where it should have gone in the first place. There would be no need or desire for a hard border. The UK would no doubt prefer a physically "open" border and the EU (and Rep of Ireland) could be invited to decide the technical nature of the new "landmark".

Is that Hard Politics ? Would Dublin (and the EU) risk that particular referendum against settling for a less (understatement !) volatile Brexit outcome ? Am I simply being mischievous ?

BTW, I wasn`t initially for Brexit, but since it happened, I accept that it`s a long term project and I now support it.
 
MedwayModernist said:
Orrrrr.....
Johnson removed the whip from the mps that didn't agree with him, replacing them with yes men, to fudge a populist policy through that would not work long term.

It was one of his first acts of fascism, which we're seeing a lot more of now.
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And you too ?:(
Is "fascist" the new "racist" ?

If Assuming even for one moment that "removing the whip" is an act of "fascism", then what does that make Whips of all Parties - for centuries ?

The current Activist Left are way more "fascist"
- constantly telling people how to behave and what to think
- threatening people's jobs
- extending existing laws and seeking new ones to shut down dissent.

(Note: I'm not going to defend the Online Harms Bill - but Labour seem content with its censorship proposals.)


You disagree with a policy.
Why can't you just explain why and leave it at that ?:oops:
 
Tarian said:
Perhaps you missed my Post #10

By all means say that you put little value on Freedom, for the ability to hold to account our Westminster MPs (instead of moaning at remote Eurocrats).

But please don't say:
"Nobody came up with any advantages".

Here, slightly re-ordered:
>>>
As Shotshy implied, measuring success in a way that suits EU fans may turn out to be difficult.
But to Leavers the freedom - which was the main point - is already evident.

>edited<


Covid: The UK found itself free to move ahead with vaccines.
So one Credit to the UK Govt.

And like many countries, the UK pursued Lockdown - and paid many people to stay at home.
So for the loss of (personal) freedom .....and a huge £ billion bill to be paid for
Debits to the UK Govt. (and other Govts'to varying degrees)

Ukraine: The UK's response has been a reminder that, even outside the EU, the UK can respond positively (some would argue "lead").
EU fans should accept that the UK is working with EU member states.
Not "pulling up the drawbridge". Not "insular, little England".
<<<
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i believe that not one of the those items could not have been done whilst still in the EU.
maybe you could state which EU rule would have stopped us or how the EU could have stopped us.

there are many things that we might be able to do now we are 'free' but cannot think of any carried out so far.
 
Gills 58 said:
??? You sign an agreement
Tell people how marvellous it is and fhen say it is it is no good. Wtf?
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Between saying it is a good deal and saying it's not working, we have an obstructive EU operating at NI entry ports, stopping and turning back vehicles not even trying to enter the EU. Brussels has shown no intention of making the protocol work. The UK government were left with no alternative.
 
LancsGordoRoad said:
The logical place to have an economic border between the UK and the EU was always the Irish Republic/N.Ireland border. But, some UK and other politicians, citing their preferred connotations from the GFI, scuppered a soft "technical economic border" on Irish soil and we somehow ended up with a more disjointed border (somewhere) in the Irish Sea.

In a time where nothing appears to be "off the table" , perhaps HMG should consider a more radical method of settling the issue ? I`m alluding to a referendum ! Not an exclusive referendum on where the EU/UK border should be, instead, let them insert the Big Question. Should there be a united Ireland, governed from Dublin ?

That would set the political cat among the pigeons.

If the people, improbable as some might suggest, actually voted to unite Ireland then Dublin would inherit a mega headache and a massive demand on its security budget. If the people voted to continue the status quo, then according to how the referendum was worded, HMG could infer support to act in the best interest of N/Ireland and put the border where it should have gone in the first place. There would be no need or desire for a hard border. The UK would no doubt prefer a physically "open" border and the EU (and Rep of Ireland) could be invited to decide the technical nature of the new "landmark".

Is that Hard Politics ? Would Dublin (and the EU) risk that particular referendum against settling for a less (understatement !) volatile Brexit outcome ? Am I simply being mischievous ?

BTW, I wasn`t initially for Brexit, but since it happened, I accept that it`s a long term project and I now support it.
Click to expand...

I have tried to put that point across a couple of times. Your post was more detailed and succinct than either of mine, A good post hit the nail on the head.
 
The Roone said:
I have tried to put that point across a couple of times. Your post was more detailed and succinct than either of mine, A good post hit the nail on the head.
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The ERG set up a working group to come up with these easy to implement technical solutions on the North/South NI border. Strangely, they never reported their findings. In the meantime the UK hasn’t implemented any checks on goods incoming from the EU as we’d literally run out of food. (ps they have to start at some point as we‘d be in breach of WTO rules and subject to claims from every other country that we import from that we must drop checks on their goods as well). Are you part of the 16% (current polling) that thinks Brexit is going well ?
 
The fact is that only a very small element are still talking brexit.

the electorate expect their elected government to actually sort it out.

This does take a bit of competence i know but on the border and trade checks ...

Once handed out to a dedicated group with financial or political penalties great projects happen and this should be handled in the same way.
Obviously we will incur a higher cost and some delays as the government will go to the same failed suppliers but thats how they work. The IT element is simple and cheap if given to the right people. Just handle it like the London olympics.
 
Therealwaldo said:
The ERG set up a working group to come up with these easy to implement technical solutions on the North/South NI border. Strangely, they never reported their findings. In the meantime the UK hasn’t implemented any checks on goods incoming from the EU as we’d literally run out of food. (ps they have to start at some point as we‘d be in breach of WTO rules and subject to claims from every other country that we import from that we must drop checks on their goods as well). Are you part of the 16% (current polling) that thinks Brexit is going well ?
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Run out of food in the time it takes to do a customs check? Are you sure?

We can of course streamline our checks and use technology as we are not adding tens of thousands of new laws, restrictions and directives every week to justify our existence. It is called practicality, pragmatism and flexibility. A new dawn.
 
GillsBluenose said:
Run out of food in the time it takes to do a customs check? Are you sure?

We can of course streamline our checks and use technology as we are not adding tens of thousands of new laws, restrictions and directives every week to justify our existence. It is called practicality, pragmatism and flexibility. A new dawn.
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Why are we not doing the checks then ? Given that they’re a WTO requirement why delay them. They’ve been put back at least twice. Come on genius, what’s the answer ? Those in the logistics industry are entirely clear. If we introduced the checks using current systems, our flow of food would be strangled. But sorry, I forgot, you don’t believe in experts.
 
HullGills said:
On a happier note here in Portugal we have just received a letter saying our electricity prices are going down by 2.9%.
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What company you with? Can we get a discount each of you refer a friend, my long time mate 🙂
 
Therealwaldo said:
Why are we not doing the checks then ? Given that they’re a WTO requirement why delay them. They’ve been put back at least twice. Come on genius, what’s the answer ?
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I could similarly ask you why the WTO are allowing it and not raising any objections?

I would guess that they have given us time to set up our systems and make them much more user friendly and streamlined than the EU uber bureaucracy towards any non member.
 
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