Poch getting ready for the off?

[Resrocspur]

My point is that we have had as good a first 11 as Arsenal Man U Chelsea or Liverpool during the last 4 years and they have won things and we haven't. We should be qualifying for CL with our squad. Do you think with these players Mourinho, Wenger, Pep would have won something? Of course they would.

If you are still around in 2 years time, I can assure you we will still be trophy less.

 

[Spursex]

My point is that we have had as good a first 11 as Arsenal Man U Chelsea or Liverpool during the last 4 years and they have won things and we haven't. We should be qualifying for CL with our squad. Do you think with these players Mourinho, Wenger, Pep would have won something? Of course they would.

If you are still around in 2 years time, I can assure you we will still be trophy less.

As you said, as good as first 11...trouble is, far too often after injuries and suspensions our depth hasn't been to the same standard - so you're quite right 'on our day' we can beat anyone, but what is clear not when we're missing key players or they're underpar when they're coming back from injury...

All you're doing is making the case for why you're looking unreasonable.

 

[Topspur1]

Pochettino has truly moved us from the top of the middle tier to the middle of the top tier.

Obviously, the significance of that is lost on many.

In these days of instant gratification on steroids and opinions swinging from tweet to tweet it doesn't surprise me that the accomplishments this year against the adversity of playing away all season are lost in short-term temper tantrums that turn into managerial lynch mobs.

It doesn't surprise me but it does piss me off.

Well said

 

[Walthamstow wanderer]

Much further? Despite the fact that you don't think it's a big deal, 2, potentially 3, successive years in the CL is extremely helpful in player acquisition and retention. Not to mention bonus payments.

I will say one thing. 25 naffing years is a long time to wait and I can completely understand why people have little or no patience. However, it is what it is whether any of us like it or not.

So you have 2 choices:

1) Measure the club from whence it came.

2) Measure the club from where YOU think it should be.

#2 will cause you nothing but agony.

Completely agree 80.
In my humble opinion we were happy to bumble along being Spursy , winning the the odd league cup , most of us happy to have reached the 40 point mark by Easter , rejoicing in the thought that we put
5 goals past the gooners and buying t shirts and scarfs with 5-1 on it .
Buying DVDs with a 4-4 scoreline , watching Harry leaning out of the window on deadline day , welcoming VDV. it was all so hit and miss , but we were Spurs . It's what we did . Harry showed us what could be done but we were going about it slapdash . We all know the results of that .
My one gripe is that the "Project" didn't start back then . Was AVB the start of the project ?
I have no way of knowing when the project was masterminded , or implemented, .
I had no idea what the project was until Poch started to ramble on about it .
I was content in being fed 40 points , 5-1s , watching 4-4s down the pub .
Levy (eventually ) and Poch have changed all that .
I have , unknowingly , bought into the project because I like what I see . Suddenly the 40 point Mark doesn't even enter my thought process.
.
Nobody ,but nobody , can tell me we haven't improved , moved on , become a club that is recognised and feared across Europe , .
I know there are people that want instant success , cups , trophies , superstars ,
Aim for the stars ,we might eventually get to the moon . It's a bloody good base .
I've lost count of how many times I've said it . Pochettino is working miracles. He , like us , is on a learning curve to success.
He probably doesn't even know himself what success he/we are capable of .
If he wants to go , I will take my hat off to him . If he is staying , I'm right behind him

 

[ScottDaYid]

Going by everyone's comments I'd say people are split.

I don't think many are calling for his head but realise he isn't the man to win us things, whilst the rest seem to be trying to convince themselves he is the man. I think this time next season it will be more than split though, if he is still here.

 

[Topspur1]

For me the most important goal this season was ensuring we had CL football moving into the new stadium, if we achieve that then it's been a good season in my books.
With the extra £50m plus CL football brings we will hopefully now be in a position to start paying our best players the £150k that will be needed to keep them.
Keep making the CL and trophies will follow, of this I have no doubt.

 

[ScottDaYid]

For me the most important goal this season was ensuring we had CL football moving into the new stadium, if we achieve that then it's been a good season in my books.
With the extra £50m plus CL football brings we will hopefully now be in a position to start paying our best players the £150k that will be needed to keep them.
Keep making the CL and trophies will follow, of this I have no doubt.

You should have doubt because our best players will start leaving 1 by 1. Toby and Rose will be gone in the summer. Wouldn't surprise me if there was another shock departure as well. Next season if we win nothing again then surely Lloris, Jan Eriksen, Kane and Dele will look to leave. They ain't going to keep sticking with us in the hope 'next year will be our year', players have short careers and when you have their talent who can be playing for teams that guarantee trophies they ain't going to stick around.

 

[Spursex]

You should have doubt because our best players will start leaving 1 by 1. Toby and Rose will be gone in the summer. Wouldn't surprise me if there was another shock departure as well. Next season if we win nothing again then surely Lloris, Jan Eriksen, Kane and Dele will look to leave. They ain't going to keep sticking with us in the hope 'next year will be our year', players have short careers and when you have their talent who can be playing for teams that guarantee trophies they ain't going to stick around.

You know, I'm not that bothered about Toby or Rose, both have had injuries that will haunt them and maybe even limit them for the rest of their careers - that's a cruel assessment, but accurate and we've been pretty good at moving on crooked players when people here have screamed about it only to late breath a sigh of relief - I think we'll be doing that with both of them.

The only shock departure (because I know the agents his agent works with) that I think could come and bite us in the arse is Eriksen...but all we can do is wait and see.

And IF it does happen, I think it will be a move by Bayern Munich, not from Spain.

 

[Topspur1]

You should have doubt because our best players will start leaving 1 by 1. Toby and Rose will be gone in the summer. Wouldn't surprise me if there was another shock departure as well. Next season if we win nothing again then surely Lloris, Jan Eriksen, Kane and Dele will look to leave. They ain't going to keep sticking with us in the hope 'next year will be our year', players have short careers and when you have their talent who can be playing for teams that guarantee trophies they ain't going to stick around.

That is a risk for sure, this transfer window is crucial for us. If we lose Rose to M.U. and can get Shaw as part of the deal I would be happy.
In my view we do not have competition for Eriksen, that needs to be addressed.
We also need more attacking flare out wide, those areas are where I would be focusing.
CB is not a major concern to me for next season, Sanchez will be a year wiser as will Foyth. And we need to see how CCV has developed.

 

[freundorfoe]

But 2nd, 3rd, 4th doesn't really make a difference. Those games that I mentioned are the games that matter. To be a successful team those are the games you need to be winning. Mancs, gooners and chavs I doubt have gone more than 2 years without winning a trophy in the last 10 years. We are now at their level and can easily compete with them yet we are the only one out of the lot to have nothing to show for it.

Arsenal went several years without a trophy before their more recent impressive semi regular FA Cup trophies.

Feels like you only see games as big if we lose them, which I suppose I can understand to an extent as it's a sign of a missed opportunity, but I'd argue there have been several HUGE games that we've won/drawn against the odds.

 

[Real Deal]

You know, I'm not that bothered about Toby or Rose, both have had injuries that will haunt them and maybe even limit them for the rest of their careers - that's a cruel assessment, but accurate and we've been pretty good at moving on crooked players when people here have screamed about it only to late breath a sigh of relief - I think we'll be doing that with both of them.

The only shock departure (because I know the agents his agent works with) that I think could come and bite us in the arse is Eriksen...but all we can do is wait and see.

And IF it does happen, I think it will be a move by Bayern Munich, not from Spain.

I have come to terms with Rose and Toby leaving. Rose has made it clear. Toby has been treated the way Walker was last season. So if either leave nobody can be surprsied.

We will need a new LWB and CB when they go. Over the last 2-3 years both have been the best players in the league in their position. So we can't rely on youth to step up.

Losing Eriksen will really be a blow. If he goes we will drop down the league sharpish. Other big names will soon follow.

Always the risk when you don't pay the monies and don't win trophies. Another reason why us not winning a trophy this season has really pissed me off. I saw it as the last chance for a long time.

 

[Resrocspur]

As you said, as good as first 11...trouble is, far too often after injuries and suspensions our depth hasn't been to the same standard - so you're quite right 'on our day' we can beat anyone, but what is clear not when we're missing key players or they're underpar when they're coming back from injury...

All you're doing is making the case for why you're looking unreasonable.

Not really Ex. I think the jury is still out on Poch. You are obviously a big fan, I'm simply questioning how far we have come and what we have achieved under him. With our team, we should be qualifying regularly for CL. But we should also have won something by now. The team is in danger of splitting up due to our failure to win things. Walker saw it, so have Rose and Toby. It's not just about the money. Kane will stay for another year, but if he wants to go next Summer to actually win something, then he has my blessing. He ain't going to win anything with Poch.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Qualifying for the CL is a big achievement out of the PL. Possibly harder than some of the Euro leagues. Just because we have qualified gives no expectancy of winning it or the Europa from me anyway. Winning the PL against the big teams is unlikely. So that leaves the de valued FA cup to go for realistically. We have reached the semis two years running and gone out against the PL champions last year and against an expensive Man U team with possibly the best manager in the world. I don't get where the expectation of winning trophies is coming from , even for scraps competitions 4th and 5th rung which I'm not that fussed about . Neither indicate a teams true ability.

 

[Spursex]

Not really Ex. I think the jury is still out on Poch. You are obviously a big fan, I'm simply questioning how far we have come and what we have achieved under him. With our team, we should be qualifying regularly for CL. But we should also have won something by now. The team is in danger of splitting up due to our failure to win things. Walker saw it, so have Rose and Toby. It's not just about the money. Kane will stay for another year, but if he wants to go next Summer to actually win something, then he has my blessing. He ain't going to win anything with Poch.

"with our team"...the classic illogical star point.

"Our team" was made / formed integrated by Poch, so that's an illogical circular argument.

As for the rest, your assumptive conclusions are driven by subjective opinion, not evidential fact, it's clear where your bias lays.

I on the otherhand and as other have already done can clearly point to key moments of absolute progress.

The fact is we've over-performed against our financial base-line yet again under him - no mean feat in the most competive league in the World, and whilst playing away from home - most especially when so many were predicting Wembley would be were the dream of a top 4 or progression in the CL was certain to die....

As for the rest, all you're doing is making pure uninformed idle speculation.

 

[freundorfoe]

Take the financial resources gap out of it though and which manager has consistently out performed Mourinho, Pep and Klopp anyway? If we're talking of replacing Poch for falling short against 3 of the best managers in the world when it comes to trophies.

Simeone is probably the one with the best record (although still loses to them more than he wins) but his brand of football would go down like a led balloon here.

 

[Departed]

I'm with RD. If Pochettino does go I would take Benitez in a heart beat.

 

[Spursex]

I'm with RD. If Pochettino does go I would take Benitez in a heart beat.

Rafa was my preferred option even before Poch.

 

[Resrocspur]

"with our team"...the classic illogical star point.

"Our team" was made / formed integrated by Poch, so that's an illogical circular argument.

As for the rest, your assumptive conclusions are driven by subjective opinion, not evidential fact, it's clear where your bias lays.

I on the otherhand and as other have already done can clearly point to key moments of absolute progress.

The fact is we've over-performed against our financial base-line yet again under him - no mean feat in the most competive league in the World, and whilst playing away from home - most especially when so many were predicting Wembley would be were the dream of a top 4 or progression in the CL was certain to die....

As for the rest, all you're doing is making pure uninformed idle speculation.

Lol . You really buy into the 'project'. You talk about facts. The fact is Poch has won nothing in 4 years. I know you are bias because of your links to the club but you haven't got any argument that holds up.

Poch has taken us forward, but not as much as he or you thinks he has. When he has won something, then come back with a valid response.

 

[Spursex]

Lol . You really buy into the 'project'. You talk about facts. The fact is Poch has won nothing in 4 years. I know you are bias because of your links to the club but you haven't got any argument that holds up.

Poch has taken us forward, but not as much as he or you thinks he has. When he has won something, then come back with a valid response.

You can ignore the financial facts and the over-performance as much as you like, but equating success to 'only' being judge by silverware only shows your limitations.

Silverware is important, but step-change progression both on and off the pitch will underpin the club's progress for years.

Poch himself in his pre-match comments, has just pretty much said what I said a few days ago about the sea-change in our project key milestones and the fact that it has been achieved.

So stay half-empty, stay negative, play the troll, be one of 'those' 'supporters' - it really doesn't matter to me.

 

[Real Deal]

Rafa was my preferred option even before Poch.

Our list was Benitez, Van Gaal, Poch.