Poch getting ready for the off? | Page 6 | Vital Football

Poch getting ready for the off?

All fair points Ex but out acquisitions have been poor even when we've spent. It's not like Janssen, Sissoko, Llorente and Aurier were cheap buys. I don't think the solution has to be "wait til we can pay 60-100M".
When you look at what Salah cost we definitely need more imagination in the 15-40M bracket.

Basically we need more Sons and less N'mistakes.
 
Oh and as for Poch possibly going we need to keep him at all costs imo.

Even if the reports that Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Jan and Hugo will only sign new deals if Poch does are exaggerated he's built the squad harmony and despite a couple big game defeats has imo changed the clubs mentality for the better. We're likely to go backwards if he leaves unless the next appointment is given much better resources to improve the squad.
 
freundorfoe said:
All fair points Ex but out acquisitions have been poor even when we've spent. It's not like Janssen, Sissoko, Llorente and Aurier were cheap buys. I don't think the solution has to be "wait til we can pay 60-100M".
When you look at what Salah cost we definitely need more imagination in the 15-40M bracket.

Basically we need more Sons and less N'mistakes.
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LOL. Good line.

I actually think we need less imagination. Buy what we know works, not what we think we can turn into gold.
 
If MP departs...we need to sign someone very good quickly! If we do not, say goodbye to Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Jan, Hugo...etc...

And mid-table here we come!!!

Hope the front office has a handle on this possibly shit-storm!
 
freundorfoe said:
Oh and as for Poch possibly going we need to keep him at all costs imo.

Even if the reports that Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Jan and Hugo will only sign new deals if Poch does are exaggerated he's built the squad harmony and despite a couple big game defeats has imo changed the clubs mentality for the better. We're likely to go backwards if he leaves unless the next appointment is given much better resources to improve the squad.
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Changed the clubs mentality? We were losers when he took over and we are still losers. He's changed absolutely nothing.
 
freundorfoe said:
All fair points Ex but out acquisitions have been poor even when we've spent. It's not like Janssen, Sissoko, Llorente and Aurier were cheap buys. I don't think the solution has to be "wait til we can pay 60-100M".
When you look at what Salah cost we definitely need more imagination in the 15-40M bracket.

Basically we need more Sons and less N'mistakes.
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We've been in the 'buy before everyone else wants them' for a long time now - and one of my biggest criticisms of Poch's/Levy regime is how many acquistions we appear to have got wrong.

That said, I watched Janssen many times before we bought him, and did say that we were forced to take a punt on him a year before we wanted to - many seasoned scouts/punidts thought he would be World beating Dutch player (Jolly Jol said so for one - but there were many others) I agreed he had the potential but knowing full well he'd was taking a massive step up and needed to prove it...

Sissoko, shook me - I never believed he'd shown any consistency at the top level, but think we were blinded by two good games in the French squad when it mattered. I always thought we'd been mugged, that said, he's shown some worth lately, but he's never going to be the first class player that so many thought he was/would be.

I have real faith in Aurier - I think he will confound all his critics next season.

As for Salah, lets not forget two top clubs really didn't see in him what he's now doing at the bin dippers - and that might well be a testament to kloop rather than anything else.

As for Salah. I think it was a phenonomal piece of business and Chelsea and Roma must be banging their heads of their respective decision makers with very large mallets on a daily basis.

out scouting was turned upside down again last summer - I'm hoping that will stop the N'mistakes and we'll keep improving in that dept.

But when we are in a position to spend big on one or two quality recruits and pay much larger base salaries - then the @project can then be expected to pay off - if it doesn't/isn't then and only then in my book can we say it's eithering failing or failed.

Until then, the evdience of our progress todate under Poch tells me exactly the opposite.
 
ScottDaYid said:
Changed the clubs mentality? We were losers when he took over and we are still losers. He's changed absolutely nothing.
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That's an absolute, but it's NOT the full picture. The progress we have made recently is a massive over-performance against our financial standing, and becoming a Top 4 competitor and winning that top 4 slot and our progress from drop outs at first group to knock out against top opposition in the CL shows our progress - even if I do think we displayed a niavity about our game management and tatcial focus when it matters., and that I do put down to Poch.
 
I still struggle to place much blame on some guys we have brought in to back up Kane. Janssen, etc...never really had a chance to get going. No consistent minutes with the first team. I mean when you are only playing in slop time...what exactly are you able to do...
 
ScottDaYid said:
Changed the clubs mentality? We were losers when he took over and we are still losers. He's changed absolutely nothing.
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I disagree. We've lost a handful of big games, won a larger handful of big games. We've bounced back numerous times too, first leg against Juve if we'd have had a weak mentality it would have been game over at 2-0 down so quickly against one of the best sides in world football, but we showed we're not pushovers and fought to get back in. You can't win every fight (hence the 2nd leg) but that doesn't mean we don't have a much stronger mentality now than before.

I don't remember us being battered too often either, whereas it was a semi regular occurrence for most of my Spurs supporting years.
 
I am pretty confident even with more money to spend on transfer fee's and wages we won't improve under Poch. What we have seen in the last 4 years is as good as it gets.

Be honest here. Poch has had one of the best Keepers in Europe, the best wing backs, the best CB's, the best DM's, the best AM's and the best CF at his disposal for at least 3 years and he still hasn't won anything. A few more million here and there isn't going to change anything.

I doubt we will pay the mega money either, even after being in the new stadium for years. Wishful thinking. 40-50m will be the maximum. There will always be an excuse. Been plenty in nearly 20 years of ENIC's ways.

I can see sense in keeping him for a few years just to keep a steady ship but that is as far as it should go.

He won't ever change as he is stubborn. His ego is way to big. Hence why he is sulking in Press Conferences when he gets questioned.

I can't see him going anywhere so we should use him now. Give him very little money, make him promote and give youth a chance, then when we can pay more money go for a proven winner.
 
freundorfoe said:
I disagree. We've lost a handful of big games, won a larger handful of big games. We've bounced back numerous times too, first leg against Juve if we'd have had a weak mentality it would have been game over at 2-0 down so quickly against one of the best sides in world football, but we showed we're not pushovers and fought to get back in. You can't win every fight (hence the 2nd leg) but that doesn't mean we don't have a much stronger mentality now than before.

I don't remember us being battered too often either, whereas it was a semi regular occurrence for most of my Spurs supporting years.
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I'd say that all of our big games he's lost them:

League Cup Final 2015 - Lost
Europa League 2015 knockout v Fiorentina - Lost
Europa League 2016 knockout v Dortmund - Lost
Europa League 2017 knockout v Gent - Lost
FA Cup Semi Final 2017 - Lost
FA Cup Semi Final 2018 - Lost
Champions League 2018 knockout v Juve - Lost

The reason I put them games is because we could have easily won all of those (and gone onto to win the tournament) okay the CL was a bit of a bonus but given the position we were in we never should have lost that game.

He's done very well for us in the league but with our current squad we should really have had a couple of trophies in the cabinet by now. No more excuses
 
Real Deal said:
I am pretty confident even with more money to spend on transfer fee's and wages we won't improve under Poch. What we have seen in the last 4 years is as good as it gets.

Be honest here. Poch has had one of the best Keepers in Europe, the best wing backs, the best CB's, the best DM's, the best AM's and the best CF at his disposal for at least 3 years and he still hasn't won anything. A few more million here and there isn't going to change anything.

I doubt we will pay the mega money either, even after being in the new stadium for years. Wishful thinking. 40-50m will be the maximum. There will always be an excuse. Been plenty in nearly 20 years of ENIC's ways.

I can see sense in keeping him for a few years just to keep a steady ship but that is as far as it should go.

He won't ever change as he is stubborn. His ego is way to big. Hence why he is sulking in Press Conferences when he gets questioned.

I can't see him going anywhere so we should use him now. Give him very little money, make him promote and give youth a chance, then when we can pay more money go for a proven winner.
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Bang on, I think more and more people are finally feeling the same way as well, it's a shame as I do really like Poch and he has done a good job for us but I just can't see him taking us any further. In his last interview I think even he realises it.
 
Heyzeus naffing christmas.........one season without a home base and we're on suicide watch.
 
Real Deal said:
Give over some are just calling it as it is. Shove it. :Fingers::grinning:
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They're not calling it. They just can't see the bigger picture, are ignoring or denigrating the progress and are half-empty people as opposed to half-full people.

If people can't see the progress off and on the pitch in the last three/four years, then I think they've simply stopped looking and have switched off.

I think we are on the cusp of our biggest leap forward in decades and that the preparation and progress to dates has been substantial - that doesn't mean that I'm happy about hitting a semi-final brick wall - but I can segment and see the reasons for it, who I think needs to own the responsibility for it - but it doesn't make me think our progress has been halted or that I need to jump in the pit of despair as some have chosen to.
 
ScottDaYid said:
I'd say that all of our big games he's lost them:

League Cup Final 2015 - Lost
Europa League 2015 knockout v Fiorentina - Lost
Europa League 2016 knockout v Dortmund - Lost
Europa League 2017 knockout v Gent - Lost
FA Cup Semi Final 2017 - Lost
FA Cup Semi Final 2018 - Lost
Champions League 2018 knockout v Juve - Lost

The reason I put them games is because we could have easily won all of those (and gone onto to win the tournament) okay the CL was a bit of a bonus but given the position we were in we never should have lost that game.

He's done very well for us in the league but with our current squad we should really have had a couple of trophies in the cabinet by now. No more excuses
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Given that the Mancs , gooners , chavs are several years ahead of us ,with a lot more money at their disposal , I'm pretty confident that you could write a very similar list of lost matches for them over a three year period .
We really are not as bad as some are trying to portray. Poch has said our slow starts to the season is causing us damage . Imagine that three games we didn't win at the start of this season had been three pointers then we would be in second place now . It's a very fine line
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
Given that the Mancs , gooners , chavs are several years ahead of us ,with a lot more money at their disposal , I'm pretty confident that you could write a very similar list of lost matches for them over a three year period .
We really are not as bad as some are trying to portray. Poch has said our slow starts to the season is causing us damage . Imagine that three games we didn't win at the start of this season had been three pointers then we would be in second place now . It's a very fine line
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But 2nd, 3rd, 4th doesn't really make a difference. Those games that I mentioned are the games that matter. To be a successful team those are the games you need to be winning. Mancs, gooners and chavs I doubt have gone more than 2 years without winning a trophy in the last 10 years. We are now at their level and can easily compete with them yet we are the only one out of the lot to have nothing to show for it.
 
The simple truth is, we are no closer to winning a trophy despite having a better starting 11 than both Man U and Arsenal and yet in the last few years, both of those sides have consistently won things.

The CL final could be between Liverpool and Real, sides we have beaten 4-1 and 3-1 respectively this season. Man U with a transitional poor side won 2 trophies last season and are back in a final this year.

I'm sorry, but this stupid 'project' is a farce that will produce nothing in the way of trophies. Our record is a joke.
 
Spurdon's point is dead on.

Success for the club is financially driven and being in the CL is a big part of that.

Success for the supporters is trophies. Even cup trophies.

The project is another 3-5 years from being in a position to yield the results both want.

If we win something in the interim, great. But it isn't imperative to Levy.
 
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