Middlesboro match day thread | Page 4 | Vital Football

Middlesboro match day thread

Hardy Forest said:
I did say ' pretty much called for his head ' not that you actually came out and said it. So apologies for that confusion. I don' t think I was lying there. You didn't actually call for his head. However right from the start you didn't want him here and I think that did colour your judgement on him a bit. Though I guess that could be said about all of us at one time or the other.
I guess my point was that you were much more vocal and much sooner than you have been with AK. Despite his poorer record.
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Well, for the first 9 games their record was identical. However, MW had a pressing need to get better results in games that were, frankly, against fairly easy opposition last season. I have been far more forgiving of Karanka because his 9 games haven't required significantly more to avoid a last day escape, he has played some very tough sides , hasn't really had a striker like Warburton had and because I personally prefer the style that Karanka wants to play. CP and you yourself have been opposed to Karanka from the start for the same reasons of style.

MW lost me completely in the Blackburn game. I'm not going into detail on this again but losing that game was, for me, unforgivable.

The Barnsley game is the equivalent for me this season, especially if, as I suspect, we lose yet again at home to Brentford on Tuesday
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Well, for the first 9 games their record was identical. However, MW had a pressing need to get better results in games that were, frankly, against fairly easy opposition last season. I have been far more forgiving of Karanka because his 9 games haven't required significantly more to avoid a last day escape, he has played some very tough sides , hasn't really had a striker like Warburton had and because I personally prefer the style that Karanka wants to play. CP and you yourself have been opposed to Karanka from the start for the same reasons of style.

MW lost me completely in the Blackburn game. I'm not going into detail on this again but losing that game was, for me, unforgivable.

The Barnsley game is the equivalent for me this season, especially if, as I suspect, we lose yet again at home to Brentford on Tuesday
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Actually they were not quite identical. 8 points for AK and 11 for MW, so slightly better for MW as well as no transfer window. Not much in it to be fair. You did criticise MW for not addressing the defence, which is fair comment, so you can hardly then make not having a striker an excuse for AK. He was given a lot of freedom in January and could have strengthened that position if he had wanted to.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Actually they were not quite identical. 8 points for AK and 11 for MW, so slightly better for MW as well as no transfer window. Not much in it to be fair. You did criticise MW for not addressing the defence, which is fair comment, so you can hardly then make not having a striker an excuse for AK. He was given a lot of freedom in January and could have strengthened that position if he had wanted to.
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Picking a striker up (of repute) in january without paying through the nose is impossible. Karanka is still a striker short because of MWs inability to replace Britt properly in the summer.

Oh I forgot, MW's understanding was that the owners wanted us to be shit this year so he didnt bother getting one.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Actually they were not quite identical. 8 points for AK and 11 for MW, so slightly better for MW as well as no transfer window. Not much in it to be fair. You did criticise MW for not addressing the defence, which is fair comment, so you can hardly then make not having a striker an excuse for AK. He was given a lot of freedom in January and could have strengthened that position if he had wanted to.
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Both managers scored 11 points in their first 9 league games.

As Paplane correctly states, a top striker in January is near enough impossible. It cannot be compared to a full summer window with three months to prepare and a £15m transfer fee expected and recieved.
 
Let's just hope Tomlin scores from 25 yards in the next few games because that appears to be our game plan.
 
There's no doubt we were in a poor spell of form when MW was sacked but throughout his time it always felt like there was a bigger picture of what he was trying to achieve.

I appreciate passing, possession based attacking football isn't for all our posters but it was a worthy goal and one I was prepared to accept short term pain for in exchange for actually working towards something that resembled the tradition we were once famous for.

I don't want AK sacked but my God he needs results to justify his God awful approach to the beautiful game.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
There's no doubt we were in a poor spell of form when MW was sacked but throughout his time it always felt like there was a bigger picture of what he was trying to achieve.

I appreciate passing, possession based attacking football isn't for all our posters but it was a worthy goal and one I was prepared to accept short term pain for in exchange for actually working towards something that resembled the tradition we were once famous for.

I don't want AK sacked but my God he needs results to justify his God awful approach to the beautiful game.
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Your opinion, not fact.

I never felt there was any broader approach- just a bloke with no clue what he was doing arrogantly pretending he did and assuming he was right in everything, despite having never lasted anywhere more than 18 months.

I'm yet to be convinced of this 'god awful' approach. When we have been good under Karanka we have been very good. When we have been bad we have been very bad.

That was the same for MW. It is down to individual opinions for the balance, but under MW I felt it was weighted heavily to the latter. There were probably three full games I enjoyed and a handful of halves.

It's difficult to say with Karanka as we have played a lot more away games and haven't been at home for ages. I haven't seen the team in a month
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Both managers scored 11 points in their first 9 league games.

As Paplane correctly states, a top striker in January is near enough impossible. It cannot be compared to a full summer window with three months to prepare and a £15m transfer fee expected and recieved.
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Pretty sure MW had one more win according to the stats I looked at. Only 8 points for Karanka.
A top striker maybe; but he didn't bring any one in and put two of ours out on loan.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
There's no doubt we were in a poor spell of form when MW was sacked but throughout his time it always felt like there was a bigger picture of what he was trying to achieve.

I appreciate passing, possession based attacking football isn't for all our posters but it was a worthy goal and one I was prepared to accept short term pain for in exchange for actually working towards something that resembled the tradition we were once famous for.

I don't want AK sacked but my God he needs results to justify his God awful approach to the beautiful game.
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Not sure quite what contrast you see. Seems to me AK tightened up the defence but now we've gone back to where we were under MW. Plenty of possession but no end product and always liable to concede from set pieces.
 
paplane said:
Picking a striker up (of repute) in january without paying through the nose is impossible. Karanka is still a striker short because of MWs inability to replace Britt properly in the summer.

Oh I forgot, MW's understanding was that the owners wanted us to be shit this year so he didnt bother getting one.
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No, what your forgetting is that MW understanding was that it was all about the long term, bringing through the youth and looking to bring in lower cost players with potential. As clearly illustrated by the chairman's pre season letter. I'm not saying he got those signings right, however their priorities have clearly changed with AK s appointment and the type of players he has been allowed to target.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Pretty sure MW had one more win according to the stats I looked at. Only 8 points for Karanka.
A top striker maybe; but he didn't bring any one in and put two of ours out on loan.
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No, 3 wins and two draws in the first 9 league games for both. 9 league games includes the wins at Wolves and QPR and at home to Birmingham

Our two strikers out on loan are currently playing for Bolton U23s
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Your opinion, not fact.

I never felt there was any broader approach- just a bloke with no clue what he was doing arrogantly pretending he did and assuming he was right in everything, despite having never lasted anywhere more than 18 months.

I'm yet to be convinced of this 'god awful' approach. When we have been good under Karanka we have been very good. When we have been bad we have been very bad.

That was the same for MW. It is down to individual opinions for the balance, but under MW I felt it was weighted heavily to the latter. There were probably three full games I enjoyed and a handful of halves.

It's difficult to say with Karanka as we have played a lot more away games and haven't been at home for ages. I haven't seen the team in a month
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Before today AKs win ration was around 20%, compared to MWs 41%. We lost again today, so now slightly worse. So it is clearly worse under AK at the moment and not really down to opinion.
 
pebble said:
Not sure quite what contrast you see. Seems to me AK tightened up the defence but now we've gone back to where we were under MW. Plenty of possession but no end product and always liable to concede from set pieces.
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Exactly.

60% possession today but shite from two set pieces and unable to turn around a deficit.

Where's the change?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No, 3 wins and two draws in the first 9 league games for both. 9 league games includes the wins at Wolves and QPR and at home to Birmingham

Our two strikers out on loan are currently playing for Bolton U23s
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Nope, only 2 wins. Villa was his first game. Beat Wolves and QPR.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Nope, only 2 wins. Villa was his first game. Beat Wolves and QPR.
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Apologies, just noticed a cup game against Hull in there. Though they are still a championship side and we lost.
Anyway, MWs starting position was far worse than AKs. Downward spiralling team and no window.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Apologies, just noticed a cup game against Hull in there. Though they are still a championship side and we lost.
Anyway, MWs starting position was far worse than AKs. Downward spiralling team and no window.
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Yes, but he had a goalscorer, which proved crucial. The league position was worse but I wouldn't say the team inherited was.

The recent form Warburton inherited was better- Brazil's team had taken 8 points from the previous 8 matches compared to just 5 points from 8 that Karanka inherited (and that includes the point scored by Brazil at Leeds)
 
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