Mauricio Pochettino

[Spursex]

We have been hearing this “we are in a process” stuff for a few years now...and ok yes we haven’t been able to build the greatest team/squad over the past 5 years due to financial constraints, but equally we play many teams in the Premier League that have worse teams than us and we struggle to beat them...this comes back to the tactics or lack of them that Poch deploys....a good example will be this week end against Newcastle...we are expecting them to park the bus but already we are concerned that we will struggle to break them down because of the way we play....the only process involved here is the lack of tactical evolution by Poch...it’s deja-vu all over again

You maybe concerned, I'm not.

As for 'worse' teams; tactically opposition teams are still professionals, they are Premier League players (although you wouldn't believe when you read some of the descriptions when we play them) and most will simply not roll over no matter how you or me or anyone else thinks they should.

They are tactically aware, that's why they have PL level coaches, staff and players - if they aren't they'll be relegated, but still most of them won't just roll over just as the season has started...

Poch's tactics have made us a top 4 team and got us to the final of a Champions League.

He's already stated that the aim this season is to win something - and still try and remain a Top 4 team.

These things we have only dreamed about far beyond his tenure.

Both N'demble and Lo Celso when fully fit will help us create in ways most still don't see, but they will.

A fit Dele will get more time and space as a consequence of both and Harry will get more quality chances to feed off.

So stating that there is a lack of tactical evolution doesn't tell the full story - having players that can positively affect a game changes tactics, so who knows what tactical changes Poch will make as the season unfolds?

As long as we get top 4, I couldn't care less what tactics he employs and I'd be doubly happy at his tactics if we bring home some/any silverware.

If we don't, then slag his tactics off then, and tell him where he went wrong and I'd probably join you, but before we have a settled side with three new additions in it, it's clear he's going to stick you what he believes in and what's been so successful so far.

 

[Harry-Kari]

You maybe concerned, I'm not.

As for 'worse' teams; tactically opposition teams are still professionals, they are Premier League players (although you wouldn't believe when you read some of the descriptions when we play them) and most will simply not roll over no matter how you or me or anyone else thinks they should.

They are tactically aware, that's why they have PL level coaches, staff and players - if they aren't they'll be relegated, but still most of them won't just roll over just as the season has started...

Poch's tactics have made us a top 4 team and got us to the final of a Champions League.

He's already stated that the aim this season is to win something - and still try and remain a Top 4 team.

These things we have only dreamed about far beyond his tenure.

Both N'demble and Lo Celso when fully fit will help us create in ways most still don't see, but they will.

A fit Delli will get more time and space as a consequence of both and Harry will get more quality chances to feed off.

So stating that there is a lack of tactical evolution doesn't tell the full story - having players that can positively affect a game changes tactics, so who knows what tactical changes Poch will make as the season unfolds?

As long as we get top 4, I couldn't care less what tactics he employs and I'd be doubly happy at his tactics if we bring home some/any silverware.

If we don't, then slag his tactics off then, and tell him where he went wrong and I'd probably join you, but before we have a settled side with three new additions in it, it's clear he's going to stick you what he believes in and what's been so successful so far.

Ok...so let’s see what happens from here on in, starting against Newcastle...just so we are clear...I don’t expect teams to just roll over but I do expect, after 5 years, that we have some effective tactics to overcome the bus Parker’s.

As for the Champions League....tactics had us sweating on other results to get us out of the group stage....VAR Got us to the semis and we were tactically overrun by Ajax in both first halves of the semi final...yes throwing on Llorente and Moura and lumping the ball forward changed the game but our goalposts and the individual brilliance of Moura got us to the final where once again no discernible tactics were on display.

Against Newcastle I’m predicting a first half of slow paced side to side and backwards possession football to wear them out and a second half of bashing our heads against a brick wall...maybe ND to have a moment of brilliance.

 

[Spursex]

Ok...so let’s see what happens from here on in, starting against Newcastle...just so we are clear...I don’t expect teams to just roll over but I do expect, after 5 years, that we have some effective tactics to overcome the bus Parker’s.

As for the Champions League....tactics had us sweating on other results to get us out of the group stage....VAR Got us to the semis and we were tactically overrun by Ajax in both first halves of the semi final...yes throwing on Llorente and Moura and lumping the ball forward changed the game but our goalposts and the individual brilliance of Moura got us to the final where once again no discernible tactics were on display.

Against Newcastle I’m predicting a first half of slow paced side to side and backwards possession football to wear them out and a second half of bashing our heads against a brick wall...maybe ND to have a moment of brilliance.

Start judging us when our new players (at least two of the three) are up, running and embedded - because the one frustration I have with Poch today is playing Eriksen, which I suspect is only because Deli and Sony weren't available.

Until then, I reserve judgment.

 

[Critical_Spur]

How does one argue such an open ended debate?. IMO, the examples cited at time don't ring right for me.

I am inclined to side with Harry on this, I would do if I am to be Critical!

Ex tells us this is continuous improvement and wait till the new signings and injured returning get up to speed. How about the holes, that are and will be, left by potential departures?. Surely, not being like for like replacements, would requires tactics juggling to get the engine purring. If not, we'll blame the euro TW for the unsettling effect.

I also do not believe we've been entirely punching above our weight because of Poch. IMO over 50% of what we have achieved is down to the individuals' brilliance. Did Poch really throw Moura in just in time for a corner because of his heading prowess?. Had it been Llorente, perhaps I would've given Poch the credit. Does Poch deserve the credit for Moura's hat trick v Ajax?...if so, he must also deserve the criticism for the abysmal showing in CL final.

80's view that "Personally, I think this year will be a leap forward. ", I can't see how the circumstances brought upon ourselves will see us achieve that. I'd welcome it though. Pardon the pun, but IMO, more a 'sideways' step and we're unlikely to get going properly until next season. This is the START of the NEW project, expect a lot of teething issues and excuses.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

How does one argue such an open ended debate?. IMO, the examples cited at time don't ring right for me.

I am inclined to side with Harry on this, I would do if I am to be Critical!

Ex tells us this is continuous improvement and wait till the new signings and injured returning get up to speed. How about the holes, that are and will be, left by potential departures?. Surely, not being like for like replacements, would requires tactics juggling to get the engine purring. If not, we'll blame the euro TW for the unsettling effect.

I also do not believe we've been entirely punching above our weight because of Poch. IMO over 50% of what we have achieved is down to the individuals' brilliance. Did Poch really throw Moura in just in time for a corner because of his heading prowess?. Had it been Llorente, perhaps I would've given Poch the credit. Does Poch deserve the credit for Moura's hat trick v Ajax?...if so, he must also deserve the criticism for the abysmal showing in CL final.

80's view that "Personally, I think this year will be a leap forward. ", I can't see how the circumstances brought upon ourselves will see us achieve that. I'd welcome it though. Pardon the pun, but IMO, more a 'sideways' step and we're unlikely to get going properly until next season. This is the START of the NEW project, expect a lot of teething issues and excuses.

In the past we have predicted a tough season ( including me ) and we have overperformed or punched above our weight. I guess there will be a season when we don't and we sink down the table. We have had it good for quite a while IMO.

 

[Harry-Kari]

I would have thought with overseas bond issues being floated to reduce debt we can’t afford to slip backwards if we are to maintain and increase our global brand....so Poch will have to deliver if he can.

We have acquired a couple of potentially excellent MF players if Poch can adapt his style to leverage their apparent abilities to move forward at every opportunity...ND seems to excel when he has forward runners to work with and we haven’t seen much of that style of play yet....the addition of Son should improve those options.

Other teams have also made changes in personnel and style...Chelsea have a lot of pace and have been playing good football, Utd look to have adopted a high energy game and look much improved from last season, and City and Liverpool seem to have carried on from last season in terms of form so it’s going to be tough and the project needs to hit some positive milestones sooner rather than later.

 

[Spursex]

I would have thought with overseas bond issues being floated to reduce debt we can’t afford to slip backwards if we are to maintain and increase our global brand....so Poch will have to deliver if he can.

We have acquired a couple of potentially excellent MF players if Poch can adapt his style to leverage their apparent abilities to move forward at every opportunity...ND seems to excel when he has forward runners to work with and we haven’t seen much of that style of play yet....the addition of Son should improve those options.

Other teams have also made changes in personnel and style...Chelsea have a lot of pace and have been playing good football, Utd look to have adopted a high energy game and look much improved from last season, and City and Liverpool seem to have carried on from last season in terms of form so it’s going to be tough and the project needs to hit some positive milestones sooner rather than later.

There is no question in my mind that those around us have strengthened and we cannot take long to get into our stride - this season is going to be tougher than ever as we still have no idea how much losing Eriksen is going to affect us.

 

[10Hoddle]

[QUOTE="Spursex, post: 1967457, member: 1292" this season is going to be tougher than ever as we still have no idea how much losing Eriksen is going to affect us.[/QUOTE]

Could be the shot in the arm we've needed.

Will be great to be playing with 11 again.

 

[Spursex]

[QUOTE="Spursex, post: 1967457, member: 1292" this season is going to be tougher than ever as we still have no idea how much losing Eriksen is going to affect us.

Could be the shot in the arm we've needed.

Will be great to be playing with 11 again.[/QUOTE]

And that's a fair comment too - he switched off last season in the second half apart from the odd game here and there, so yes you have to wonder what difference a committed creative attacking midfielder like Lo Celso could do to our game.

 

[muttley]

[/QUOTE]And that's a fair comment too - he switched off last season in the second half apart from the odd game here and there, so yes you have to wonder what difference a committed creative attacking midfielder like Lo Celso could do to our game.[/QUOTE]

The bigger picture is intriguing actually. With the senior players, the older U23's and the development squad releases you get the feeling that about 15 players could have left the club this summer. That's not including the loanees.

What's Poch has left is already lean. If Wanyama and Eriksen leave then we probably have no choice but to leverage guys like Tanganga and Parrott just to get to 25 players. Poch will be working with a squad including 5 os 6 U21's and then have a high dependency on a group of players aged 22-24 like KWP, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Dele etc.

I always get the feeling that Poch works best in this kind of setup. I hope he does it again next year with the substitution of Toby, Jan, Rose, Sissoko etc. I'm feeling we're in a 2 year refresh of the squad and that probably means it will be tough to have too high expectations this season.

 

[Departed]

We are a joy to watch with Harry out of the line up.

 

[Critical_Spur]

And that's a fair comment too - he switched off last season in the second half apart from the odd game here and there, so yes you have to wonder what difference a committed creative attacking midfielder like Lo Celso could do to our game.[/QUOTE]

The bigger picture is intriguing actually. With the senior players, the older U23's and the development squad releases you get the feeling that about 15 players could have left the club this summer. That's not including the loanees.

What's Poch has left is already lean. If Wanyama and Eriksen leave then we probably have no choice but to leverage guys like Tanganga and Parrott just to get to 25 players. Poch will be working with a squad including 5 os 6 U21's and then have a high dependency on a group of players aged 22-24 like KWP, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Dele etc.

I always get the feeling that Poch works best in this kind of setup. I hope he does it again next year with the substitution of Toby, Jan, Rose, Sissoko etc. I'm feeling we're in a 2 year refresh of the squad and that probably means it will be tough to have too high expectations this season.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure on much of that Muttley. We'll see. But IMO, this is Poch's 1st job where he's lasted this long, so no track record to compare with, no trophies and winning mentality to compare with. IMO, what you've listed and talk about another two years for a refresh WILL of course suit Poch to the ground because it takes away the pressure of having to win a trophy and all of Levy's remits are met! Essentially instead of continuous improvement, we have continuous excuses (some financial) to keep moving the goal posts. At some point we may just have enough talent all round to get us over the line to land a trophy.

Five years of stability is a long time to NOT have got more than top 4 out of a talented squad. We are being sold the same story of another project over the next 5 years. Let's see how he tinkers in the cups this season and shows he means it when he talks about the trophies.

 

[Spursex]

How does one argue such an open ended debate?. IMO, the examples cited at time don't ring right for me.

I am inclined to side with Harry on this, I would do if I am to be Critical!

Ex tells us this is continuous improvement and wait till the new signings and injured returning get up to speed. How about the holes, that are and will be, left by potential departures?. Surely, not being like for like replacements, would requires tactics juggling to get the engine purring. If not, we'll blame the euro TW for the unsettling effect.

I also do not believe we've been entirely punching above our weight because of Poch. IMO over 50% of what we have achieved is down to the individuals' brilliance. Did Poch really throw Moura in just in time for a corner because of his heading prowess?. Had it been Llorente, perhaps I would've given Poch the credit. Does Poch deserve the credit for Moura's hat trick v Ajax?...if so, he must also deserve the criticism for the abysmal showing in CL final.

80's view that "Personally, I think this year will be a leap forward. ", I can't see how the circumstances brought upon ourselves will see us achieve that. I'd welcome it though. Pardon the pun, but IMO, more a 'sideways' step and we're unlikely to get going properly until next season. This is the START of the NEW project, expect a lot of teething issues and excuses.

So the endless debate goes on....

As for the 'holes', as I've said until we have what would demonstrably be our first team all fit available and playing, the holes we / you think we have may not be holes at all. At the moment, I'm entirely comfortable with our RB 'hole' and think he will only improve, so it may not be a hole at all...where else? hmmm..

As for Moura; the strategic planning of game management is clealry that you send on a fast nippy player when the opposition are worn down/tired/ not paying the marking attention they should be; so yes absolutely yes, especially when Moura has struggled to make these sorts of impacts when starting.

Poch gets a pat on the back for getting the timing right for both the games you mention, but he also gets a slap around the back of the head for his team selection in the final (which he has taken responsibility for).

The art of management is getting it more right than you do wrong; he's unquestionably done that - hence our ascendency - the bigger question will be is he the coach to now kick us on and achieve the ambitions of the club, and of course the fans.

 

[Spursex]

And that's a fair comment too - he switched off last season in the second half apart from the odd game here and there, so yes you have to wonder what difference a committed creative attacking midfielder like Lo Celso could do to our game.

The bigger picture is intriguing actually. With the senior players, the older U23's and the development squad releases you get the feeling that about 15 players could have left the club this summer. That's not including the loanees.

What's Poch has left is already lean. If Wanyama and Eriksen leave then we probably have no choice but to leverage guys like Tanganga and Parrott just to get to 25 players. Poch will be working with a squad including 5 os 6 U21's and then have a high dependency on a group of players aged 22-24 like KWP, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Dele etc.

I always get the feeling that Poch works best in this kind of setup. I hope he does it again next year with the substitution of Toby, Jan, Rose, Sissoko etc. I'm feeling we're in a 2 year refresh of the squad and that probably means it will be tough to have too high expectations this season.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure on much of that Muttley. We'll see. But IMO, this is Poch's 1st job where he's lasted this long, so no track record to compare with, no trophies and winning mentality to compare with. IMO, what you've listed and talk about another two years for a refresh WILL of course suit Poch to the ground because it takes away the pressure of having to win a trophy and all of Levy's remits are met! Essentially instead of continuous improvement, we have continuous excuses (some financial) to keep moving the goal posts. At some point we may just have enough talent all round to get us over the line to land a trophy.

Five years of stability is a long time to NOT have got more than top 4 out of a talented squad. We are being sold the same story of another project over the next 5 years. Let's see how he tinkers in the cups this season and shows he means it when he talks about the trophies.[/QUOTE]

I don't think we're being 'sold' anything; it's crystal clear to almost everyone that over the next year or so, key old guards will have gone - and the new replacements have to create and emulate their success.

 

[Critical_Spur]

Ex, can you have a word with the admin about the 'reply' and 'quote' please. The site has gone haywire!

Your second post apparently responding to MY post is actually NOT my quote!...Lol!

 

[Spursex]

Ex, can you have a word with the admin about the 'reply' and 'quote' please. The site has gone haywire!

Your second post apparently responding to MY post is actually NOT my quote!...Lol!

Ha ha - I think they're working on it!

 

[muttley]

I am not sure on much of that Muttley. We'll see. But IMO, this is Poch's 1st job where he's lasted this long, so no track record to compare with, no trophies and winning mentality to compare with. IMO, what you've listed and talk about another two years for a refresh WILL of course suit Poch to the ground because it takes away the pressure of having to win a trophy and all of Levy's remits are met! Essentially instead of continuous improvement, we have continuous excuses (some financial) to keep moving the goal posts. At some point we may just have enough talent all round to get us over the line to land a trophy.

Five years of stability is a long time to NOT have got more than top 4 out of a talented squad. We are being sold the same story of another project over the next 5 years. Let's see how he tinkers in the cups this season and shows he means it when he talks about the trophies.

I see it as follows. What we witnessed was a pathetic 2-3 years after we had so much to build upon after the superb 16/17 season (87 points?). We regressed horribly as a squad despite kidding ourselves because we got to a CL final. We fell back to 71 points and that's what we deserved compared to the rest of the quality on other Prem teams.

So something had to happen in the summer of 2019. That doesn't make it a new 5 year project. What it made it was a major overhaul with 15 or so players at all levels leaving the club and 4 coming in and some younger players getting promoted to the 1st team squad. What I then see is one more iteration in the next 12 months. That will see more of the same with players like Rose, Sissoko, Vertonghen and Toby leaving and younger guys coming in if they're not already here. Fast forward 12 months and it will look different again.

That's no excuse for this season though. Some of the players might be in their final years but they need to continue to play at the highest level. The squad is admittedly lean, but very talented. No new 5 year project though. We have to have higher expectations whether Poch completes the journey with us or gets replaced. He simply has to get it right as the less time he has on his contract the more expendable he becomes. He won't make 10 years without a trophy. I doubt he'll make 8 years without one.

 

[Real Deal]

I see it as follows. What we witnessed was a pathetic 2-3 years after we had so much to build upon after the superb 16/17 season (87 points?). We regressed horribly as a squad despite kidding ourselves because we got to a CL final. We fell back to 71 points and that's what we deserved compared to the rest of the quality on other Prem teams.

So something had to happen in the summer of 2019. That doesn't make it a new 5 year project. What it made it was a major overhaul with 15 or so players at all levels leaving the club and 4 coming in and some younger players getting promoted to the 1st team squad. What I then see is one more iteration in the next 12 months. That will see more of the same with players like Rose, Sissoko, Vertonghen and Toby leaving and younger guys coming in if they're not already here. Fast forward 12 months and it will look different again.

That's no excuse for this season though. Some of the players might be in their final years but they need to continue to play at the highest level. The squad is admittedly lean, but very talented. No new 5 year project though. We have to have higher expectations whether Poch completes the journey with us or gets replaced. He simply has to get it right as the less time he has on his contract the more expendable he becomes. He won't make 10 years without a trophy. I doubt he'll make 8 years without one.

Exactly and why should he? He has had some very good players at his disposal over the years so him going year after year and not winning trophies is getting a tad old.

6th season in charge now he has to deliver.

 

[Critical_Spur]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...no-interview-refreshing-the-tottenham-project

 

[Real Deal]

I don't have any issues with the academy guys getting some game time but they have to be good enough.

I do think we over hype our younger guys.

With the squad being thinned out and will probably become even thinner, I suppose we don't have a choice but to promote from within.