Match Thread: Blades Vs Forest sponsored by the latest next manager thread

[pebble]

'Our disciplinary record comes from persistent fouling, time-wasting, mistimed tackles, haranguing refs etc. along with the odd attempt at blatant cheating'.

Persistent fouling? No.

Time-wasting? Pantilimon under AK took ages, better under MON.

Mistimed tackles are by definition not a preconceived dark art!

Haranguing refs? Would prefer us not to, but if everyone else does it...

The odd attempt at blatant cheating? Suggests you realise that other sides are coached to cheat while we aren't.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Didn’t realise the CP line was copyrighted. And nobody is saying that teams haven’t cheated us out of points. They have. But we have attempted to do the same at times so can hardly get on our high horse about it.

Take off the rose tinted specs and the examples are not hard to find. Grabban, Cash and Robinson for starters have all tried their luck with varying degrees of success.

Our disciplinary record comes from persistent fouling, time-wasting, mistimed tackles, haranguing refs etc. along with the odd attempt at blatant cheating. No conspiracy, no fudging of figures - over ten years our disciplinary record has been crap.

We may not be a physical team a la Cardiff or Sheff Utd of old etc but that is a different issue.

Plenty of players across all teams try to blatantly cheat. Some successfully, some less so. To suggest we don’t is naive at best and moaning that other teams ‘get away with it’ is missing the point in its entirety.

VAR has its issues but I will be more than happy when it comes in and it will be interesting to see how that affects the disciplinary table.

Spot on.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

'Our disciplinary record comes from persistent fouling, time-wasting, mistimed tackles, haranguing refs etc. along with the odd attempt at blatant cheating'.

Persistent fouling? No.

Time-wasting? Pantilimon under AK took ages, better under MON.

Mistimed tackles are by definition not a preconceived dark art!

Haranguing refs? Would prefer us not to, but if everyone else does it...

The odd attempt at blatant cheating? Suggests you realise that other sides are coached to cheat while we aren't.

So for a decade we've been a victim of a giant conspiracy plus we just innocently misstime tackles lol ho hum.

 

[Basha73]

'Our disciplinary record comes from persistent fouling, time-wasting, mistimed tackles, haranguing refs etc. along with the odd attempt at blatant cheating'.

Persistent fouling? No.

Time-wasting? Pantilimon under AK took ages, better under MON.

Mistimed tackles are by definition not a preconceived dark art!

Haranguing refs? Would prefer us not to, but if everyone else does it...

The odd attempt at blatant cheating? Suggests you realise that other sides are coached to cheat while we aren't.

Colback is a master of the persistent and niggly fouling and that is just for starters.

Time wasting is not limited to Pantilimon.

Haranguing refs is embarrassing and ‘if other teams do it..’ is no excuse. The great man himself fined players for haranguing and back chatting refs and he believed we got treated better for it.

Didn’t say mistimed tackles were a dark art. They are however a foul that players can be booked for and therefore an issue of discipline.

Other teams are coached to cheat and we aren’t? Are you for real? Do you really believe that? If you do then you really need to take off those rose tinted specs.

Apologies but that line is just downright hilarious in its naivety.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Colback is a master of the persistent and niggly fouling and that is just for starters.

Time wasting is not limited to Pantilimon.

Haranguing refs is embarrassing and ‘if other teams do it..’ is no excuse. The great man himself fined players for haranguing and back chatting refs and he believed we got treated better for it.

Didn’t say mistimed tackles were a dark art. They are however a foul that players can be booked for and therefore an issue of discipline.

Other teams are coached to cheat and we aren’t? Are you for real? Do you really believe that? If you do then you really need to take off those rose tinted specs.

Apologies but that line is just downright hilarious in its naivety.

The problem in my view is the failure in judgement of referees.

It is up to the referee to notice that Kemar Roofe has handballed it into the net. He has a linesman and a fourth official. It was bloody obvious.

It is up to a referee to know that Joe Lolley's goal at Preston was fine. Instead, he took the easy decision, noticed the keeper rolling on the floor (cheating) and assumed it should be disallowed. He didn't know there was a foul in the build up (he couldn't because there wasn't) and if he doesn't know the benefit goes to the attacking side.

Both of these cases are rank bad judgement. Absolutely nothing to do with our disciplinary record, as neither were disciplinary issues. The referees in both cases need to do their fucking jobs and know better.

Today is another case in point. There were covering defenders, Benalouane is not remotely the last man and there is no real contact. It looks like McGoldrick cheated. It is the referees job to know that, not to guess based on a ten year stats record

 

[pebble]

Colback is a master of the persistent and niggly fouling and that is just for starters.

Time wasting is not limited to Pantilimon.

Haranguing refs is embarrassing and ‘if other teams do it..’ is no excuse. The great man himself fined players for haranguing and back chatting refs and he believed we got treated better for it.

Didn’t say mistimed tackles were a dark art. They are however a foul that players can be booked for and therefore an issue of discipline.

Other teams are coached to cheat and we aren’t? Are you for real? Do you really believe that? If you do then you really need to take off those rose tinted specs.

Apologies but that line is just downright hilarious in its naivety.

So a Preston defender and keeper rolling around holding their heads for no reason to help convince a ref to disallow a perfectly good goal isn't coached? just players spontaneously deciding to cheat? You're the one with rose tinted specs.

And didn't you notice two Villa players, one in each half, doing the same to disrupt the game and try to con the ref a few weeks ago? Or their choreographed players going down every ten minutes feigning injury in the second half? You seem a little naive.

 

[pebble]

So for a decade we've been a victim of a giant conspiracy plus we just innocently misstime tackles lol ho hum.

As I've said I find the fair play tables surprising and shocking but I still don't believe that in real life we've been the dirtiest side in the Championship for ten years.

And as I've said, Roofe and Gayle cost us 4 points through clear, deliberate cheating, but it won't show in the FPL stats as the ref didn't book them for it. The FPL tables may not be quite as reliable as you assume.

 

[Basha73]

The problem in my view is the failure in judgement of referees.

It is up to the referee to notice that Kemar Roofe has handballed it into the net. He has a linesman and a fourth official. It was bloody obvious.

It is up to a referee to know that Joe Lolley's goal at Preston was fine. Instead, he took the easy decision, noticed the keeper rolling on the floor (cheating) and assumed it should be disallowed. He didn't know there was a foul in the build up (he couldn't because there wasn't) and if he doesn't know the benefit goes to the attacking side.

Both of these cases are rank bad judgement. Absolutely nothing to do with our disciplinary record, as neither were disciplinary issues. The referees in both cases need to do their fucking jobs and know better.

Today is another case in point. There were covering defenders, Benalouane is not remotely the last man and there is no real contact. It looks like McGoldrick cheated. It is the referees job to know that, not to guess based on a ten year stats record

Am not saying you are wrong but there are different issues at play in there.

Referees get decisions wrong. That’s just something we have to accept and it’s why VAR is being brought in to try and limit the impact.

Some refs are better than others and that’s an issue for them to sort.

All referees have decisions to make when things happen in the field and they will have numerous considerations, one of which will be what they have seen. Another will be what they know of the players involved.

All this is before we come to players cheating.

You say it’s down to the referee but ultimately it’s not. It’s down to the players and clubs to stamp it out but they won’t because they have too much riding on it. We are just as guilty of it as any other club.

 

[pebble]

Am not saying you are wrong but there are different issues at play in there.

Referees get decisions wrong. That’s just something we have to accept and it’s why VAR is being brought in to try and limit the impact.

Some refs are better than others and that’s an issue for them to sort.

All referees have decisions to make when things happen in the field and they will have numerous considerations, one of which will be what they have seen. Another will be what they know of the players involved.

All this is before we come to players cheating.

You say it’s down to the referee but ultimately it’s not. It’s down to the players and clubs to stamp it out but they won’t because they have too much riding on it. We are just as guilty if it as any other club.

I think if we were as guilty (and as good at cheating) we'd have a few more points, but I agree that VAR would help a lot.

 

[Basha73]

So a Preston defender and keeper rolling around holding their heads for no reason to help convince a ref to disallow a perfectly good goal isn't coached? just players spontaneously deciding to cheat? You're the one with rose tinted specs.

And didn't you notice two Villa players, one in each half, doing the same to disrupt the game and try to con the ref a few weeks ago? Or their choreographed players going down every ten minutes feigning injury in the second half? You seem a little naive.

So what you are saying is that we are the only team in the Championship, if not the entire football league who don’t coach our team to cheat. Ok.

Like every other team our players feign injury, commit the foul that relieves pressure or stops an attack.

Regardless of whether it’s coached or spontaneous all teams cheat to some degree or another and if you think we don’t then there is nothing more that can really be said.

 

[Basha73]

I think if we were as guilty (and as good at cheating) we'd have a few more points, but I agree that VAR would help a lot.

Not necessarily. Being guilty of it doesn’t make us good at it.

We obviously aren’t very good at it as we haven’t gained many points from it and have had players caught doing it. Doesn’t mean we aren’t guilty of trying it.

 

[Basha73]

As I've said I find the fair play tables surprising and shocking but I still don't believe that in real life we've been the dirtiest side in the Championship for ten years.

And as I've said, Roofe and Gayle cost us 4 points through clear, deliberate cheating, but it won't show in the FPL stats as the ref didn't book them for it. The FPL tables may not be quite as reliable as you assume.

Gayles retrospective ban will count on it but how many of those type of instance will each club have per season? Not enough to have a significant effect on the tables I would suggest.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Brereton, Cash, Osborn. All relatively recent academy graduates, all love a good dive but that's nothing to do with how they've been taught to play by us?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Brereton, Cash, Osborn. All relatively recent academy graduates, all love a good dive but that's nothing to do with how they've been taught to play by us?

It's endemic amongst young players across the championship, not just ours. The younger players are much worse for it and that is symptomatic of what they see growing into the game

 

[pebble]

Not necessarily. Being guilty of it doesn’t make us good at it.

We obviously aren’t very good at it as we haven’t gained many points from it and have had players caught doing it. Doesn’t mean we aren’t guilty of trying it.

I think Pope has made the point that any examples you could find of Forest players cheating have had no impact on results. We have gained no points at all from stuff like Robinson's dive at Boro. Other sides have taken points off us through cheating.

 

[pebble]

Brereton, Cash, Osborn. All relatively recent academy graduates, all love a good dive but that's nothing to do with how they've been taught to play by us?

Osborn? Not sure where you get that from.

And I don't think Cash dives, just turns too sharply and falls over. Not good, but not cheating.

 

[pebble]

Gayles retrospective ban will count on it but how many of those type of instance will each club have per season? Not enough to have a significant effect on the tables I would suggest.

So how will Gayles's retrospective ban be shown on the FPL? I thought it was purely based on red and yellow cards.

 

[Basha73]

I think Pope has made the point that any examples you could find of Forest players cheating have had no impact on results. We have gained no points at all from stuff like Robinson's dive at Boro. Other sides have taken points off us through cheating.

Not sure what you are trying to say there.

Just because we haven’t gained a significant advantage and/or have been caught doesn’t mean we aren’t guilty of cheating.

The fact that other teams have taken points off us is galling and we can be rightly annoyed.

What we can’t do is take the moral high ground because given the same circumstances we can’t say our players wouldn’t do the same.

And moaning because other teams are better than us at cheating is hypocritical. You are effectively saying it’s ok for us to cheat but not others.

 

[Basha73]

So how will Gayles's retrospective ban be shown on the FPL? I thought it was purely based on red and yellow cards.

My understanding is bans also come into it even if they are given retrospectively.

 

[pebble]

Not sure what you are trying to say there.

Just because we haven’t gained a significant advantage and/or have been caught doesn’t mean we aren’t guilty of cheating.

The fact that other teams have taken points off us is galling and we can be rightly annoyed.

What we can’t do is take the moral high ground because given the same circumstances we can’t say our players wouldn’t do the same.

And moaning because other teams are better than us at cheating is hypocritical. You are effectively saying it’s ok for us to cheat but not others.

No - all I'm saying is that some other sides seem to systematically cheat and get away with it.

I would expect any examples of our players cheating to be treated on merit, but I don't believe our managers tell players to cheat,