Match Thread: Blades Vs Forest sponsored by the latest next manager thread | Page 12 | Vital Football

Match Thread: Blades Vs Forest sponsored by the latest next manager thread

Basha73 said:
Go on other teams sites and I am sure you will find their fans saying exactly the same and quoting examples. It’s the persecution complex of every football fan.
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I'm sure I would, and in most cases it would be.

But this season has been unusual.

I have been a regular at the CG for a long time now (20 years+) and in our time outside the PL certain decisions still stand out. Wolves away in 2000. The performance of Phil Dowd in both Coventry games in 2001-2. Walsall away in 2005 in L1. The Huddersfield sending off in 2007 (I think). At least one of Pereira's still rankles. The Hull handball winner a few of years ago under SOD.

But this season has seen a whole glut on that are on that level. The sending off yesterday and Colback's ridiculous card being just two examples.

We have had a very bad year for refs decisions- I believe the worst I have seen in the last 20 years by quite some way.

Like I say, normally it does more or less even out but certainly not this year
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I don't think anyone is claiming that

Personally I doubt that our young players have been taught to cheat but I would be surprised if there were many academies that did. The odd coach maybe. They don't need to be coached in that, they just have to watch Neymar play a single game and they'll see him dive about 8 times and still be lauded as one of the best in the world.

But they also have to watch Joe Lolley be honest at West Brom and get fuck all while Dwight Gayle earns a penalty for diving.

If referees got those right then you wouldn't have the likes of Osborn (one time that I recall) making a show of being tackled in the area to get a penalty.

Maybe VAR will help, I don't know. Not sure whether we'll ever get it at our level
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Pebble was.

Clough used to claim, with some justification, that we got more decisions from refs through being easy to manage on the field than we ever would by being difficult.

Not sure whether that would translate into today’s game as the relationship with refs is different but I wouldn’t mind us trying it while making the fact known to refs.
 
Basha73 said:
I said before the season started that top ten would be reasonable with us flirting with the playoffs for a while.

Manager aside the main thing that has killed us is our complete inability to get back to back wins or a decent run going.

It has certainly felt like we have been hammered with bad decisions but as you say I doubt they would have really changed whether we challenged for promotion.
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Not getting back to back wins has actually been a big responsibility of some of these decisions.

But I think it is a bigger problem. We have no finishing ability. Grabban can finish, Lolley can score a worldie but that's it. Start of the season Cash was scoring for fun but he's lost that instinct for where to be and looks so average and powderpuff now. Osborn never gets near to goal.

By killing us off as a counter attacking side, that quality we had under Karanka of always having a goal/ equaliser in us has gone and we are hardly scoring now. In the last 4 games we have only scored from a Rotherham mistake and a Blackburn own goal.

All season too few shots on target, too few clear cut chances created.
 
Basha73 said:
Pebble was.

Clough used to claim, with some justification, that we got more decisions from refs through being easy to manage on the field than we ever would by being difficult.

Not sure whether that would translate into today’s game as the relationship with refs is different but I wouldn’t mind us trying it while making the fact known to refs.
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All we'll and good, but there is a big space in our trophy cabinet where a UEFA cup should be. Our being "easy" just helped others to successfully cheat
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Not getting back to back wins has actually been a big responsibility of some of these decisions.

But I think it is a bigger problem. We have no finishing ability. Grabban can finish, Lolley can score a worldie but that's it. Start of the season Cash was scoring for fun but he's lost that instinct for where to be and looks so average and powderpuff now. Osborn never gets near to goal.

By killing us off as a counter attacking side, that quality we had under Karanka of always having a goal/ equaliser in us has gone and we are hardly scoring now. In the last 4 games we have only scored from a Rotherham mistake and a Blackburn own goal.

All season too few shots on target, too few clear cut chances created.
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Not going to disagree with any of that.

What worries me is how this squad will be brought on with limited funds and a complete change of philosophy.

The change hasn’t just ended this season but probably next too.
 
Basha73 said:
That was more down to a ref actually being bribed by a club though.
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Yes- cheating.

We were well known as being easy on referees. Didn't help there did it?

Besides, the game has moved on. We have all seen the "big" sides that harangue the referee get the decisions.

I remember Alan Shearer years ago moaning at the referee every couple of minutes. Literally everything we did, "England captain" Shearer was in the referees face. The result was a penalty and a red card for forest and a Newcastle away win. This would have been '99.
 
Basha73 said:
Not going to disagree with any of that.

What worries me is how this squad will be brought on with limited funds and a complete change of philosophy.

The change hasn’t just ended this season but probably next too.
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Going to state this now- I think we are in prime territory for relegation next season.

Lolley is likely to go and it sounds like so is Carvalho. That removes most of Grabbans goals even if he stays

Ask Ipswich what happens when you take the main sources of goals out of an average side.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Yes- cheating.

We were well known as being easy on referees. Didn't help there did it?

Besides, the game has moved on. We have all seen the "big" sides that harangue the referee get the decisions.

I remember Alan Shearer years ago moaning at the referee every couple of minutes. Literally everything we did, "England captain" Shearer was in the referees face. The result was a penalty and a red card for forest and a Newcastle away win. This would have been '99.
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It was never going to when a ref had been paid off though was it?

The thing is it doesn’t happen in rugby because the referees are under specific instructions and so are the players. Would only take a fifa directive for it to go away very quickly - at our level and above at least. Have always wondered why that directive has never been made...
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Going to state this now- I think we are in prime territory for relegation next season.

Lolley is likely to go and it sounds like so is Carvalho. That removes most of Grabbans goals even if he stays

Ask Ipswich what happens when you take the main sources of goals out of an average side.
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That is my fear as well, particularly as most of the rest of the squad aren’t suited to MoNs tactics such as they are.
 
I agree. MoN will get us relegated. Most of the points he has achieved have been lucky. Swansea should have beat us for certain. We have been terrible since he took over. Much worse than Karanka. During AK's first six months we had a lot of draws which could have been wins. I am sorry to say we need a new manager as soon as possible.
 
This side and this manager aren't going to get us anywhere. There's a deal of doubt in my mind about our managers future and whether he's here or not we need more and better players, not a lot but in the right positions. And some of them won't come cheap. Not sure where that would leave us with FFP but we've obviously got to get rid of some in any case.
When this season ends we'll be left in a sticky mess and unless some rebuilding is done will be facing possible relegation.
I hope that our owner pulls his finger out and decides to take a bit of PROPER advice, this isn't Greece and by now he should have found that out.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I don't think anyone is claiming that

Personally I doubt that our young players have been taught to cheat but I would be surprised if there were many academies that did. The odd coach maybe. They don't need to be coached in that, they just have to watch Neymar play a single game and they'll see him dive about 8 times and still be lauded as one of the best in the world.

But they also have to watch Joe Lolley be honest at West Brom and get fuck all while Dwight Gayle earns a penalty for diving.

If referees got those right then you wouldn't have the likes of Osborn (one time that I recall) making a show of being tackled in the area to get a penalty.

Maybe VAR will help, I don't know. Not sure whether we'll ever get it at our level
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It's exactly what Pebble was claiming and has been for a while. He refused to acknowledge any gamesmanship or cheating by us believing it's part conspiracy, part simply just the odd mistimed tackle.

I do think we've been unfortunate with decisions this season but I don't think we help ourselves at all. Perception is important and we can't of been a pleasure to referee for a long time.

I'm not interested in other clubs behaviour, only ours, because it's only ours that we can control.

VAR is a mixed blessing, I have reservations and I don't believe it would of helped us much yesterday.

Contact is irrelevant to the law, the question is did his lunge stop Goldie from having a goal scoring opportunity. The answer looks like a clear yes. Harsh? Definitely. To the letter of the law? Yes.

The Colback situation, I'd probably have given a penalty and booked him lol
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I'm sure I would, and in most cases it would be.

But this season has been unusual.

I have been a regular at the CG for a long time now (20 years+) and in our time outside the PL certain decisions still stand out. Wolves away in 2000. The performance of Phil Dowd in both Coventry games in 2001-2. Walsall away in 2005 in L1. The Huddersfield sending off in 2007 (I think). At least one of Pereira's still rankles. The Hull handball winner a few of years ago under SOD.

But this season has seen a whole glut on that are on that level. The sending off yesterday and Colback's ridiculous card being just two examples.

We have had a very bad year for refs decisions- I believe the worst I have seen in the last 20 years by quite some way.

Like I say, normally it does more or less even out but certainly not this year
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The Wolves one - is that where they scored after we put the ball out so one of their players could get treatment?

Nothing wrong with that from a refereeing point of view, but didn't Beasant get booked after booting the ball out of the stadium the next time that scenario occurred in the game?
 
ZedRed said:
The Wolves one - is that where they scored after we put the ball out so one of their players could get treatment?

Nothing wrong with that from a refereeing point of view, but didn't Beasant get booked after booting the ball out of the stadium the next time that scenario occurred in the game?
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I'm pretty sure we had a couple of red cards in that game
 
Pope John XXIII said:
All we'll and good, but there is a big space in our trophy cabinet where a UEFA cup should be. Our being "easy" just helped others to successfully cheat
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No it didn't, it created a contrast and showed up the cheating from other teams. We had a reputation for being a good footballing side and not arguing with refs. It probably earned us quite a net haul of 50 - 50 decisions from refs who thought "this is Forest so that was probably not a foul / dive / time wasted etc" when the ref had to make a call and he was not sure.

The opposite happens now and the modern ref probably thinks "this is Forest so they probably did foul / dive / timewase etc. And I'm fed up with them fucking complaining about every decision I make."

And the uefa cup gap is due to the ref being paid, not us being too F-ing nice!
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I'm sure I would, and in most cases it would be.

But this season has been unusual.

I have been a regular at the CG for a long time now (20 years+) and in our time outside the PL certain decisions still stand out. Wolves away in 2000. The performance of Phil Dowd in both Coventry games in 2001-2. Walsall away in 2005 in L1. The Huddersfield sending off in 2007 (I think). At least one of Pereira's still rankles. The Hull handball winner a few of years ago under SOD.

But this season has seen a whole glut on that are on that level. The sending off yesterday and Colback's ridiculous card being just two examples.

We have had a very bad year for refs decisions- I believe the worst I have seen in the last 20 years by quite some way.

Like I say, normally it does more or less even out but certainly not this year
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I would agree with that. We have had some awful decisions.

The other major factor, for me, is the horrendous injuries we've had, particularly in defence and over the second half of the season. Yes all teams get injuries, but not like we do - Byram, Hefele, Dawson, Figueirdo, Soudani, Grabban to name a few. We just never had a settled side.
 
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