Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 148 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

sirdennis said:
I have always thought we are a bit to arrogant for my liking. Does it go back to the Empire days when we thought it was a good idea to impose our "values" on the rest of the world ?
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A huge problem we have is our edicational system. We’re taught Britain won the war and Henry VIII was a historic leader who reformed the church.

China suffered 10x more deaths than the UK in the world war, I can’t even tell you how that happened from my education. Famines? No idea.

We (royal we) want an ideology that we don’t understand .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...d-the-british-empire-poll-finds-a6821206.html
 
How did John redwood get a knighthood ?

Surely it can't be an attempt to bribe an arch brexiteer into voting for the government on the brexit deal can it ?

Can't think of anything else this nasty piece of work has done to deserve it , apart from learning the Welsh national anthem so well of course.........
 
sirdennis said:
How did John redwood get a knighthood ?

Surely it can't be an attempt to bribe an arch brexiteer into voting for the government on the brexit deal can it ?

Can't think of anything else this nasty piece of work has done to deserve it , apart from learning the Welsh national anthem so well of course.........
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Defies belief doesn't it?
 
Deadwood has already intimated that he will be voting against the deal, so if the hapless prime minister was hoping to buy his support, she is sadly mistaken.

I totally agree that he is a nasty piece of work. I may have mentioned before once or twice that I have met the man and he is one of the most vile, inhuman creatures I have ever had the misfortune to come across in my life. A despicable man with despicable 'principles'.
 
I voted to leave, a very close call, arrived at after months of investigation and weighing up the pro's and cons of each and every aspect of the situation.
I have since changed my mind, due entirely to the inability of our governing party to do deal that is acceptable and knowing that there is external pressure being put on the Tories to accept a 'no deal' stance.
Normally a 'no deal' would be acceptable to me but, the Tories are being told by the Trump administration that a trade deal between the USA and the UK would be done immediately.
That idea is frightening, with the Tories in power.
We would, in essence, become a dumping ground for America's shoddy goods, while having to open up our own markets to American Health and Insurance companies. Our food standards would have to be aligned to theirs, where rat hairs and droppings are acceptable in their food.
We would end up being unable to afford our own Health care system because it would be sold to American big Pharma and insurance companies, our social security system would also be sold to the giant American insurance companies. Crime in this country would be at least 50% higher as a result.
We would, in effect, become, the 51st state of America.
After a deal was signed, it wouldn't be long before the USA broke it in some way, in an attempt to get a better deal for themselves.
 
Interesting that you've changed your mind 58. Not read many being honest enough to admit that. Everyone seems to entrenched.

It was one of my main arguments / points made to those looking to vote leave. Do you really trust our lot to negotiate for us? I never did, sadly I've been proved right. I wouldn't have trusted Labour either. Not that there is much difference, not when the old school tie brigade at Whitehall run so much.

I would love to know (and we will never be able to obviously!) how many youngsters voted leave and if it is right that not that many of the young bothered to vote (it's been said, but I can't see the evidence) and the % of the older generation voted out. I know a few who voted remain because that was what their kids/grandkids wanted (voting for their futures, not mine was one of the comments I was told) plus how many - either way - have changed their mind now.

As said, a good honest post 58, thanks.
 
sirdennis said:
How did John redwood get a knighthood ?

Surely it can't be an attempt to bribe an arch brexiteer into voting for the government on the brexit deal can it ?

Can't think of anything else this nasty piece of work has done to deserve it , apart from learning the Welsh national anthem so well of course.........
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What are the odds that at least one of the directors is an old school friend of those in power?
 
JuanPabloAngel said:
No comment.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1077311727342108675
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I thought the radio host was a bit of an arse but it does highlight some of the moronic reasons people voted to leave. I don’t necessarily blame those who voted as it is not their job to understand the intricacies of the whole legal and political system but it is the governments job to understand so they should never have allowed the public vote in the first place, at least not in the way it was done considering they must have known the chaos it was going to cause. No wonder Cameron left immediately after the results, he knew there was no way to actually implement the fucking thing even though it was his idea
 
@1958Villan that for me is exactly why I was against the idea of “negotiating our own trade deals”. A deal with the US would only ever be on one sides favour and we will just see American companies and products take over.

There was a case earlier this year where Boeing, a US company, took a Canadian company to court because they sold their aeroplanes to a US airline and they weren’t happy about it, and of course the US courts ruled in Boeing’s favour. The US is the most protectionist country there is, the grass is not greener by dumping the EU and joining up with them
 
david, to be honest I didn't consider Trump as President, when I made my decision.
I did consider American big Pharma and Insurance but, I thought we could do the hard negoiating to restrain their input.
I didn't think for one moment that Mrs May would be the complete opposite of Mrs Thatcher, the Iron Lady, The Lady Not For Turning.
Sadly to say Mrs May seems to be like, a female Trump, in that it depends on who the last person she spoke to was, as to her stance.

I still think that Europe is in danger of eating itself.
It is growing far too quickly to continue being able to handle it all.
Maybe if instead of having country's join so quickly, they could do a decade as a kind of associate, that would make any transition a lot easier.
The thing Europe must do, for it to continue working, is to ease the trade restrictions with outside country's.
For a 'Democratic' institution, Europe is hugely undemocratic at the top.
For example; when was the last time any of you had a vote on the European President or chairmen who rule the boards that rule European institutions.
 
1958Villan said:
david, to be honest I didn't consider Trump as President, when I made my decision.
I did consider American big Pharma and Insurance but, I thought we could do the hard negoiating to restrain their input.
I didn't think for one moment that Mrs May would be the complete opposite of Mrs Thatcher, the Iron Lady, The Lady Not For Turning.
Sadly to say Mrs May seems to be like, a female Trump, in that it depends on who the last person she spoke to was, as to her stance.

I still think that Europe is in danger of eating itself.
It is growing far too quickly to continue being able to handle it all.
Maybe if instead of having country's join so quickly, they could do a decade as a kind of associate, that would make any transition a lot easier.
The thing Europe must do, for it to continue working, is to ease the trade restrictions with outside country's.
For a 'Democratic' institution, Europe is hugely undemocratic at the top.
For example; when was the last time any of you had a vote on the European President or chairmen who rule the boards that rule European institutions.
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I think EU expansion is over for the foreseeable future. They bit off more then they could chew with the last expansion.

I fully agree about the EU being undemocratic but would you really want to have to vote for the EU President and then have further elections for the Finance Minister etc?
 
BodyButter said:
I think EU expansion is over for the foreseeable future. They bit off more then they could chew with the last expansion.

I fully agree about the EU being undemocratic but would you really want to have to vote for the EU President and then have further elections for the Finance Minister etc?
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I'd rather have to get educated about each candidate than live in a totalitarian state.
Thats the trouble with most folks BB, they want democracy but don't want to do the work needed to protect it.
Gaining a democratic existence is easy.
The hard work comes in trying to stop it being stolen.
 
I do agree with a lot of the above points, I like the idea of a transition/association into the EU as I’d be all for levels of membership.

On the point of the EU being democratic - I think I’m stating the obvious but correct me if I am wrong - in the UK we vote for a local MP, the highest number of seats won means that party gains power (simplistically), and the leader of that party wins the hot seat. It’s down to the MPs to choose & their leader. So we don’t actually vote for a PM directly, although that’s probably how a fair proportion of the electoral do vote.
 
danvilla2 said:
I do agree with a lot of the above points, I like the idea of a transition/association into the EU as I’d be all for levels of membership.

On the point of the EU being democratic - I think I’m stating the obvious but correct me if I am wrong - in the UK we vote for a local MP, the highest number of seats won means that party gains power (simplistically), and the leader of that party wins the hot seat. It’s down to the MPs to choose & their leader. So we don’t actually vote for a PM directly, although that’s probably how a fair proportion of the electoral do vote.
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This is the thing that I don’t get, maybe I just done understand it all, which in itself is part of the EU’s problem - we all vote on MEPs, don’t they then decide on all European matters with the new laws and the president etc? How is that less democratic than when we vote for MPs who then decide on all the UK laws and who is prime minister? Maybe I am missing something in how the EU operates but I never understood the undemocratic part, apart from that fact french and German etc politicians also get a say

@1958Villan I agree though about growing too quickly and it’s obvious that having second tier economies like Poland join is going to cause some issues due to the huge disparity in economic position between those countries and the top economies, hence the excessive immigration from those places. That is a failure of the EU to recognise that as an issue
 
david-avfc said:
This is the thing that I don’t get, maybe I just done understand it all, which in itself is part of the EU’s problem - we all vote on MEPs, don’t they then decide on all European matters with the new laws and the president etc? How is that less democratic than when we vote for MPs who then decide on all the UK laws and who is prime minister? Maybe I am missing something in how the EU operates but I never understood the undemocratic part, apart from that fact french and German etc politicians also get a say

@1958Villan I agree though about growing too quickly and it’s obvious that having second tier economies like Poland join is going to cause some issues due to the huge disparity in economic position between those countries and the top economies, hence the excessive immigration from those places. That is a failure of the EU to recognise that as an issue
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I suspect that the en mass expansion of the EU was designed to do exactly that. Well, primarily it was designed to give Western European manufacturers a low cost base to operate from and remain inside the EU. Migration suppressing wages across Western Europe was a bonus and so too was the expansion of the EU/NATO into Russia's back garden.
 
david-avfc said:
This is the thing that I don’t get, maybe I just done understand it all, which in itself is part of the EU’s problem - we all vote on MEPs, don’t they then decide on all European matters with the new laws and the president etc? How is that less democratic than when we vote for MPs who then decide on all the UK laws and who is prime minister? Maybe I am missing something in how the EU operates but I never understood the undemocratic part, apart from that fact french and German etc politicians also get a say
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Well if you’re wrong, stupid or missing then I am too brother, because that’s also my understanding or I too am missing something.

So when Farage calls the EU un-democratic that to me is exactly the same principle that made it un-democratic in his eyes for him to be elected as UKIP leader several times.
 
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