Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 113 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

Yup, I voted remain, leaving and the benefits people think are coming baffles me. I really means baffles, totally discombobulated and worried for the economy that isn't properly out of choppy waters from the recession and the ensuing austerity philosophy of the Tories.

SO. To me, it should have been an easy sell and one that should have been split to talk to the different generations, not just on their worries (as you say the negative talk) but also the positives.

Immigration was allowed to be the main talking point because of the Daily Mail Line and the despicable shite from Farage (the poster alone was enough for me, but also his bullshit on NHS tourism) but he was able to attract a certain audience, knew how to peddle what he was selling and it was bought.

It was project fear for remain, a lot of the brexit stuff was project xenophobia and project lies. It was also political manoeuvring from the likes of Johnson who is just a chancer.

Remain could have swung it targeting the youth, tell them what could happen to the currency/exchange and spell it out 'that is your holidays 20% more expensive'. Explain the phone tariffs and spell out 'this is your future, not ours, get our and vote, or don't moan once done'

The £350m lie on the bus could have been dispelled and stability and 30 years of integration could have been a counter argument. They could also have told the story of the massive % of those 'bloody foreigners' who help run our NHS, hotels, catering industry etc.

I guess they could even have said if they aren't here to do our jobs, I hope those of you who can't be arsed to work realise you will have to!

How is it all going? I agree Merlin, no one can say, it's still being negotiated.

I hold to my original argument though, I wouldn't trust these people to organise a piss up in a brewery, so I sure as hell don't trust them to negotiate a good deal for Britain.

Oh and I'd have also challenged those who think the law has been taken out of our hands to list the exact laws taken from us that they are worried about, how they would repeal them and how that would be for the betterment of the country.

Your average Joe Blog would no doubt have cited the myth about the law on bananas. I'm sure Farage used it during the campaign.

Fear on the one side, lies and xenophobia on the other side.

What a mess

*not saying all were racially motived, that would be totally untrue, but it was a major theme that Farage managed to whip up to even include refugees who as anyone with an education should have been able to realise, were not European

I hope those who voted for Brexit, in good faith, are rewarded by the right outcome being delivered. With the fact no one seems to be able to come out with a unified idea of what Brexit even means, I'm sorry but I very much doubt that will happen.

I hope the lies are properly exposed at some point and the likes of Farage and Johnson get their just rewards. Although, just for balance, now it is happening, I hope it all works out brilliantly and we don't all have to pay a high price.

It'll be interesting. Or maybe it won't !

I fully appreciate your arguments Jonathan let me say it was far from an easy decision to make my family was split down the middle on this vote (although we did not allow ourselves to fall out over it.) Strangely when I voted it was not with myself in mind but more my grandchildren. I do agree that immigrants by and large keep the NHI running, for me its not about colour,race or creed but about numbers with an infrastructure that cannot cope.
Any one with half a brain would not have been taken in by Farage or Johnstone and come to that Osborne or Cairney . I expected 4/5 hard years after brexit for the economy. As for the single market and customs union Cameron made it crystal clear we would come out of both. I Do know it does not help the remain cause to hear some billionaire is pumping millions into stopping brexit. if big money is so against it the man in the street is going to be even more for it.

Personally I think the worse thing that could happen would be to remain in the single market and customs union. I would much rather stay in the E.U. and have a vote. As I put in my earlier post this could have been avoided with a bit of foresight by German & French premiers. If they had given Cameron something it would have stopped brexit dead. Worse still is seeing the rise of the far right in Europe for all the worst kind of reasons,this really worries me.
 
As I put in my earlier post this could have been avoided with a bit of foresight by German & French premiers. If they had given Cameron something it would have stopped brexit dead. Worse still is seeing the rise of the far right in Europe for all the worst kind of reasons,this really worries me.

Yup. Arrogance by Cameron 'they will all follow me' and complacency from the EU. Totally right.

Any one with half a brain would not have been taken in by Farage or Johnstone and come to that Osborne or Cairney .

Ah... yes. Awkward isn't it? Because I think so many did just follow like sheep and were taken in. Sadly, then those of us (on either side of the argument) who actually take the time to scratch beneath the bullshit veneer and research get stuck with the decisions made from the lies and spin.
 
When you think it couldn't get more batty- Rees-Mogg speaks

...................................

Britain could rejoin the European Union after Brexit, says Jacob Rees-Mogg

..........

Britain could rejoin the European Union in the future, Jacob Rees-Mogg has admitted.

The leading Eurosceptic said any decision to reverse Brexit “would be a matter for the electorate”.

However, he said the result of the 2016 EU referendum “must be respected and it must be implemented” as he resisted calls for the Government’s Brexit deal to be put to a “peoples' vote”.

Meanwhile, he expressed caution about UK officials being invited to take part in a new round of EU budget negotiations for the period up to 2027

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...n-european-union-brexit-says-jacob-rees-mogg/
 
Any one with half a brain would not have been taken in by Farage or Johnstone and come to that Osborne or Cairney . I expected 4/5 hard years after brexit for the economy.

Jesus you are giving people far too much credit.

I just think its amazing people still think leaving is a great idea when the people who lead the charge seem to have done it on a whim with zero plans and concrete evidence how it will benefit anyone. I don't profess to know much about it and I think long term you will be fine but you would have been no matter what. Really just seems like a pointlessly putting a temporary strain on the economy just so a few people can say 'fuck you EU'.
 
We will always survive, but Brexit has done damage already.

There were only ever two outcomes of leaving - retain open borders for open trade, or work under WTO rules. The former is the same as we had, with no say. The latter is unthinkable.

You are so right, CDX, they had no plan, along with unrealistic expectations. They were never going to keep the trade advantages unless they gave something back, like open borders. They hoodwinked the voters in leading them to think otherwise.
 
Maybe the government should start putting the infrastructure in place for Brexit and start turning the M20 motorway into a lorry park.
 
We will always survive, but Brexit has done damage already.

There were only ever two outcomes of leaving - retain open borders for open trade, or work under WTO rules. The former is the same as we had, with no say. The latter is unthinkable.

You are so right, CDX, they had no plan, along with unrealistic expectations. They were never going to keep the trade advantages unless they gave something back, like open borders. They hoodwinked the voters in leading them to think otherwise.

Sorry this misconception that the leave campaign should have had a plan ready is wrong. They were not the government of the day but a cross party campaign group and as we are all aware Cameron had no plan in place for leaving. Regardless we can thank our current politicians
for the continued mess instead of working together for the good of the country they are more interested in scoring points off each other and in Corbyns case saying anything that might get him into power. Despite
the feeling that brexit will be negated by a combination of the lords and
the coalition of remainers + labour in the commons.

I will say again rather than remain in the single market & customs union
without a vote in Europe,I would rather stay in the E.U.
Will I feel cheated by Brexit being stopped by the above combination
to be honest I feel a good deal was there to be made the E.U. wants our cash but because of the lack of unity in parliament they have no reason
to offer us a decent deal.
 
The misconception is Leave had a plan.

If you're going to campaign for people to jump of buildings just so 'they have the choice to jump of buildings' you need to offer more than 'it's your choice and no foreigner makes it for you'.

There isn't 350million quid waiting when you land.

The same applies to Remain.
 
to be honest I feel a good deal was there to be made the E.U. wants our cash but because of the lack of unity in parliament they have no reason
to offer us a decent deal.

Fair enough Merlin on your position.

But was there ever a good deal to be had? The EU has been holding all the cards since day one - we want to leave the club so they are happy to wave goodbye. Anything else - any concessions, pandering, special rules - would just encourage others to leave, or at least, talk about leaving.

The EU position, as you say, has been greatly strengthened by our shambolic parliament. The worst thing that could have happened in the wake of the referendum was a ridiculous general election which returned no overall majority. And what happened? Yup.

And our negotiations have not been helped by having Davis, Johnson and Fox involved, three of the the most talentless and intellectually vacuous members of parliament in the history of the grand old institution.

I'm SO looking forward to the next 10 years.
 
.If you're going to campaign for people to jump of buildings just so 'they have the choice to jump of buildings' you need to offer more than 'it's your choice and no foreigner makes it for you'.

There isn't 350million quid waiting when you land.

The same applies to Remain.[/QUOTE]

Usually when you jump off a building and you land, your dead so 350 million is no good to you anyway! I think the jumping off the building analogy is a very good one for what will happen when we do jump off next year-splat, and likely dead or seriously ICU type injured
 
Good job the 350million claim was BS then really lol

I honestly still think nothing will change in reality, we'll just pay more for the privilege of operating exactly how we currently do.

Instead of choosing how we implement EU law that we had a say in creating, we now choose how we mimic EU law that we had no say in creating so we can continue to trade etc.

But now we're in control apparently!
 
Fair enough Merlin on your position.

But was there ever a good deal to be had? The EU has been holding all the cards since day one - we want to leave the club so they are happy to wave goodbye. Anything else - any concessions, pandering, special rules - would just encourage others to leave, or at least, talk about leaving.

The EU position, as you say, has been greatly strengthened by our shambolic parliament. The worst thing that could have happened in the wake of the referendum was a ridiculous general election which returned no overall majority. And what happened? Yup.

And our negotiations have not been helped by having Davis, Johnson and Fox involved, three of the the most talentless and intellectually vacuous members of parliament in the history of the grand old institution.

I'm SO looking forward to the next 10 years.

Could not agree more re the intelligence of our politicians something i have mentioned before none of them on any side of the house inspire me with any confidence Juan
 
Good job the 350million claim was BS then really lol

I honestly still think nothing will change in reality, we'll just pay more for the privilege of operating exactly how we currently do.

Instead of choosing how we implement EU law that we had a say in creating, we now choose how we mimic EU law that we had no say in creating so we can continue to trade etc.

But now we're in control apparently!

Yes, we are totally in control - we totally control pissing into the tent instead of out of it!

Kind of :rotfl:
 
Good job the 350million claim was BS then really lol

I honestly still think nothing will change in reality, we'll just pay more for the privilege of operating exactly how we currently do.

Instead of choosing how we implement EU law that we had a say in creating, we now choose how we mimic EU law that we had no say in creating so we can continue to trade etc.

But now we're in control apparently!


Yup Bojo and co sold a fake insurance policy really! I wonder if we could sue them.

Ofcourse we will be control Mike! Bojo says so :shake: so he must be right. Bojo wouldn't lie would he? Can we send him to the tower? :guns::guns::guns:
 
Yup Bojo and co sold a fake insurance policy really! I wonder if we could sue them.

Ofcourse we will be control Mike! Bojo says so :shake: so he must be right. Bojo wouldn't lie would he? Can we send him to the tower? :guns::guns::guns:
I've begun naturally distrusting people with certain types of hairstyles.
 
Strange as it may seem I think the Brexit vote stopped the far right dead in this country. And the E.U. seem to have their hands full with the rise of the right. France got past it but they took a big chunk of the vote. Germany similar and probably the worst mess is Italy with the Far right and far left gaining support. If the far right gain control in these countries we might be glad to be out of the E.U.
 
It has UKIP but you only have to look at Robinson and the rise in hate crime to see it's brought it to the fore - it's just not politicised now which served as a cover for a long time.

The right wing racist bastards are in full march though, as you say across Europe, look at Trump in America etc etc.

I know we have our issues, Tory's with Islamaphobia, Labour with the anti-semetic can't upset the Israeli's (Corbyn a poor man's Trump when it comes to dictators) but whilst you say we might be glad to be out of the EU - again we have no say in helping to guide.

I think that's far more dangerous despite our own issues.