EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 625 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

Tarian said:
That's NOT what R-M said.
Please read again.
"The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years."
i.e. The "opportunity" of the "project" will be judged continuously.

(And after 50 years, Brexit will be so far back in history, attributing anything to it may have little value)

Personally, I always thought that "success" would be pretty obvious within less than a year .... as the vast majority of business would carry on much as usual.

But probably Covid has muddied the waters too much.
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Please don't tell me what he said as if I can't read, or listen.

I am not particularly interested in the precise application of the 50 year time frame, I won't be around that long. He has moved from instant benefits during campaigning into full retreat in an attempt to gloss over what he knows is coming.

It is interesting to hear your definition of success in the first year, a very low bar indeed. We will see if we manage to limp over that one. Rees Mogg will be on the airwaves soon enough talking longer into the future, of that I am confident.
 
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According to this, the Sunderland plant actually only exports half of their cars to the EU:
https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/nissan-sunderland-qashqai-production-brexit-17012697

So will their new plant in Europe only need 3500 workers?

Not sure where the other half are sold but if it is within the UK they will start having to pay export tariffs on those with no plant over here.[/QUOTE]


I don't know much about car manufacturing (although I have walked the line at Nissan Sunderland - JIT methodology is fascinating) but if they wanted to move production elsewhere in Europe then I am sure there are plenty of plants who would love add the capacity. Sunderland's massive plus is they are a high performing plant and that will always be massive positive for them. Whether adding the tarrif undermines to the extent they are not longer high performing that is another thing. Their CEO has clearly stated "Sunderland is unsustainable with a no deal" but that might just be bluster.

Time will tell.

We still don't know what's inside the "Brexit mystery box"
 
GillsBluenose said:
And electric is the reason why Honda is withdrawing, not Brexit. Their European boss has admitted “this is not a Brexit-related issue for us”.

The loss of 7000 jobs is sad but in a workforce of tens of millions, as well as being able to finally partly turn off the tap of previously unlimited migrant labour, you have to think that if the fishing issue is supposedly overblown, so is this.

Is a fisherman's livelyhood less important than a car worker's?
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Don't forget for every job lost in a large factory, multiples of that job are lost in the supply chain. I am not sure if that is as true about the fishing industry.

I've always wondered about the focus on fishing in Brexit debate. I am not a big fish eater, but there is never a queue at the fish counter in the supermarket and you don't see too many fishmongers on the high street. Any fish I eat is generally from the chip shop where 90% of the orders I hear while waiting are "cod and chips". I suspect most of the cod is imported from Iceland / Baltic states. If I occasionally watch the "trawlermen" type TV show it seems that most of what they catch is exported to the EU. Maybe people who want us to protect our fishing waters and support "our" fishermen need to start buying what they catch ?

Does anyone eat UK caught fish here regularly ?
 
markinkent said:
Don't forget for every job lost in a large factory, multiples of that job are lost in the supply chain. I am not sure if that is as true about the fishing industry.

I've always wondered about the focus on fishing in Brexit debate. I am not a big fish eater, but there is never a queue at the fish counter in the supermarket and you don't see too many fishmongers on the high street. Any fish I eat is generally from the chip shop where 90% of the orders I hear while waiting are "cod and chips". I suspect most of the cod is imported from Iceland / Baltic states. If I occasionally watch the "trawlermen" type TV show it seems that most of what they catch is exported to the EU. Maybe people who want us to protect our fishing waters and support "our" fishermen need to start buying what they catch ?

Does anyone eat UK caught fish here regularly ?
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We do mark but accept that we are in the minority.
The fishing issue is a bit misunderstood by the Eu zealots.
It’s not about cutting european boats out of U.K. waters altogether, it’s about the U.K. having the right to determine the access as a sovereign country.
I have no doubt that the U.K. will allow Eu boats to fish in our territorial waters but we will expect some concessions in return.
I’d consider that normal negotiation.

The ball has always been in the Eu side of the court.
They either decide a free trade agreement, agree tariffs or ultimately trade on recognised wto terms.
As a major importer, we will have to live with what they want, while retaining sovereignty as an independent country.
 
I am not a great fish eater myself but I suppose it depends on whether you believe fishmongers and fish and chip shops when they claim it is "fresh fish" or "freshest fish", as they often do.

As a rule, I tend to always think Fish & Chips taste better and fresher on the coast (Plaice in the Pilot at Dungeness particularly) although in reality I appreciate that most of it comes from nearer Iceland. You only have to travel as far as East Anglia to be next to the cold North Sea, though, and it is hard to believe that cod is only non sustainable in the part that classifies as British waters, or that it is only the UK fishermen that have overfished in the past. I would ask whether quotas have been fair and whether they have been observed by every nation, including Iceland.
 
shotshy said:
We do mark but accept that we are in the minority.
The fishing issue is a bit misunderstood by the Eu zealots.
It’s not about cutting european boats out of U.K. waters altogether, it’s about the U.K. having the right to determine the access as a sovereign country.
I have no doubt that the U.K. will allow Eu boats to fish in our territorial waters but we will expect some concessions in return.
I’d consider that normal negotiation.

The ball has always been in the Eu side of the court.
They either decide a free trade agreement, agree tariffs or ultimately trade on recognised wto terms.
As a major importer, we will have to live with what they want, while retaining sovereignty as an independent country.
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All very well but rolling over on food and agriculture standards at the behest of the US doesn't do sovreignty for me. It's a direct contradiction of explicit promises too.
 
The EU manufacturers might lose sales in the uk as the car would cost more to import


Not sure where the other half are sold but if it is within the UK they will start having to pay export tariffs on those with no plant over here.[/QUOTE]
The first statement is more accurate than the second.
Tariffs on charged on imports.

So it is speculation what the impact of higher prices for some cars might be.
There are so many factors at work now.
Diesel. Hybrid, Electric. FX rates. Developing mass markets (India)

Manufacturers might be wise to continue with making different models in different jurisdictions and averaging out the pluses and minuses as different models pass each other across the sea.
 
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jogills said:
Please don't tell me what he said as if I can't read, or listen.

It is interesting to hear your definition of success in the first year, a very low bar indeed. We will see if we manage to limp over that one.
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Sorry but you seem to have missed my last line about Covid muddying the waters.

The anti-Brexit claim was that growth would be less - but still plus.
Covid has created a minus of a much bigger order of magnitude.
 
markinkent said:
I wouldn't.

Only place I would eat an American food is while I am over there (not a lot of choice).

I'd trust EU food standards over US food standards all the time.
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Neither would i mark, which is my point.
It doesn’t matter what is in a trade agreement if there is no market for it.
The consumer decides.
If American cars were 10% cheaper, there would still be little appetite for them .
 
markinkent said:
I'd trust EU food standards over US food standards all the time.
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I wouldn't trust either very much. The chicken issue does not bother me as I do not like poultry and if diluted chlorine is safe to swallow in our swimming pools, not sure why it should be dodgy when used to wash something. Haven't heard of many poisonings as a result over the pond. Also, allowing it to be imported does not mean there will be any demand for it from the UK public. If it affects the flavour, people will turn their back on it anyway.

Hormone fed beef is more of a concern but the EU food standards are not great either when they can accept live exports, foie gras and old fashioned veal production. Their animal cruelty knocks the US for six.
 
jogills said:
All very well but rolling over on food and agriculture standards at the behest of the US doesn't do sovreignty for me. It's a direct contradiction of explicit promises too.
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Why do EU fans persist with this prediction ?
It's just another Mystic Meg scare story.

And then if we get to the point of actually discussing the merits of US standards......( in a highly litigious society)
....perhaps someone can explain why chlorinating chicken is so bad ( given the UK advice about not washing and spreading salmonella) - or it's OK in the EU to chlorinate salad.
 
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GillsBluenose - think you have missed the point about chlorinated chicken, its not what chlorinated chicken tastes like or the effect it could (or does not) have on you. The purpose of the chlorinating process is that the product can be produced with lower welfare and environmental standards.
 
RotherhitheGill said:
GillsBluenose - think you have missed the point about chlorinated chicken, its not what chlorinated chicken tastes like or the effect it could (or does not) have on you. The purpose of the chlorinating process is that the product can be produced with lower welfare and environmental standards.
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I've heard this argument before.

So if the issue is "lower (animal) welfare" people should make that case - not bang on about "chlorination"...
...(which might address our salmonella and washing problem)
 
RotherhitheGill said:
GillsBluenose - think you have missed the point about chlorinated chicken, its not what chlorinated chicken tastes like or the effect it could (or does not) have on you. The purpose of the chlorinating process is that the product can be produced with lower welfare and environmental standards.
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Lower than putting live animals on a truck and transporting them across a continent?
 
GillsBluenose said:
I am not a great fish eater myself but I suppose it depends on whether you believe fishmongers and fish and chip shops when they claim it is "fresh fish" or "freshest fish", as they often do.

As a rule, I tend to always think Fish & Chips taste better and fresher on the coast (Plaice in the Pilot at Dungeness particularly) although in reality I appreciate that most of it comes from nearer Iceland. You only have to travel as far as East Anglia to be next to the cold North Sea, though, and it is hard to believe that cod is only non sustainable in the part that classifies as British waters, or that it is only the UK fishermen that have overfished in the past. I would ask whether quotas have been fair and whether they have been observed by every nation, including Iceland.
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Good shout with the pilot. Had the biggest Cod ever there. Absolutely fantastic. I like the memorial to the US bomber crew outside as well. Very well done.

I knew someone who owned a chip shop and the he said fresh can be fresh frozen i.e. processed on the big old boat and frozen at sea i.e. it was very fresh when frozen. Not sure how frequently that can be found in our local shops but he claims that's what he used.
 
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