EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 205 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

Gills 58 said:
You've completely lost it now with the ludicrous "nazi Soubry" comment. You used to articulate some reasonable arguments on this thread (unlike some other Brexiteers) and I admired your determination. Now you are looking increasingly ridiculous. I can't take you seriously any more. I don't suppose you'll cry over that but at least you past arguments posed reasonable questions. You've gone over a cliff now.
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Sorry, but I don't think apologists for Soubry's actions over the past two and a half years can be taken seriously either.

You can label people fascists but Nazi is unacceptable? Mussolini was obviously a great guy.

As someone else said, calling for the protection of a police force that her party has decimated is beyond laughable in its hypocrisy.
 
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Wayne.Kerr said:
I think the majority would like to be in a 'common market' - that includes Remainers and quite a few Leavers who would be happy to stay in what was called the Common Market as determined by the first referendum in Harold Wilson's time.
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That is true but the EU will not allow cherry picking in its market without taking their extra baggage so sadly a separate Free Trade deal is, as they like to put it, the best available.
 
shotshy said:
Jezza seems to think that we can be in a Customs Union and still do our own trade deals.
I don't reckon he's correct but time will tell when he is PM.
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Modified Norway or Canada deals????
shotshy said:
I will say that had the EU offered Dave a few morsels regarding free movement, all of this would have been avoided.
Remain would have narrowly won in my opinion.
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But they would not have conceded on one of the five EU fundamentals
shotshy said:
Uncontrolled free movement was an issue for me, but more worrying is the way the EU is trying to move towards federalisation.
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The UK has four EU opt outs so can't be sucked into a federal Europe.

The European Union and the United Kingdom are so deeply interdependent that a real divorce is, in practice, impossible. Forget “taking back control.” What the U.K. is almost certain to end up with is an especially close “association agreement” — a legal arrangement used for countries that aren’t part of the EU but still want to cooperate closely with the bloc.
shotshy said:
Anybody notice that the FYR Macedonia has totally ignored the referendum result in their country with reference to name change.
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The turnout was less than 37%, which fell well below the bar of 50%; therefore, the referendum was invalid but the MPs pressed on with EU and Nato membership for the good of the country. You need to get deeper into these things before making a knee-jerk anti-EU reaction that is not really valid.
 
GillsBluenose said:
That is true but the EU will not allow cherry picking in its market without taking their extra baggage so sadly a separate Free Trade deal is, as they like to put it, the best available.
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That's why Canada+ is widely touted - pity you don't read these things. May's Chequers agreement was dead in the water even before she went back to the EU; she had red lines that the EU was not prepared to bend its rules for.
 
shotshy said:
If this totally incompetent Government win another election, then I really will give up and sit in a hole in north Wales for the rest of my days.
Nobody, but nobody can seriously be thinking about voting Tory, can they ?
Eff me!
How bad do they need to get?
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I feel the same as a lifelong Labour member (apart from a spell out in protest at Blair). However I'm old enough to remember bitter defeats in, say 87 and 92.
 
Therealwaldo said:
Gillsbluenose, frankly you’re sounding more and more like a spoilt child who can’t get its way.
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Possibly, because of the deadlock, but in theory 29th March might still see you not get your way. Or have I misunderstood your leanings?

If you do get your way and Brexit doesn't happen, do you think one spoilt child will be the sum of the country's problems?
 
GillsBluenose said:
Just explain something to me, because it is important. The Withdrawal agreement has not yet been ratified and it includes a clause about the backstop. If the EU are acting in good faith, why can that clause not be amended or deleted?

An assurance is defined by Google as "a positive declaration intended to give confidence; a promise" - is that as good?

If so, can I have your address and can you have £1000 in cash ready for me when I call round? I promise to pay it back if I happen to be in your area in the near future. You should know one way or the other by 2021.

Obviously, I am being flippant but I think the principle is why May's deal will be voted down. Unless the assurances have any legal backing which I suspect is what Rees Mogg will be looking for.
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The reason for the backstop is that a red line for the uk was no hard border. The eu said ok but as it is the uk that want it - how will it work. Uk could not come up with a solution and wanted to kick it down the road. To get something agreed the eu put in the current wording with a view to finding a solution during the transition, backstop is because the eu do not trust this government to agree a deal within a transition period.
Last brexit secretary resigned as he believed we should have taken an extra push to gain the right to withdraw.
Deal agreed by the 27 and therefore to make a change will take the 27 to agree rewording and sign. That opens up the chance of one of those nations to change their mind and elections are imminant across the eu.
Thats why they want to give assurances instead of reopening a can of worms.
 
shotshy said:
If this totally incompetent Government win another election, then I really will give up and sit in a hole in north Wales for the rest of my days.
Nobody, but nobody can seriously be thinking about voting Tory, can they ?
Eff me!
How bad do they need to get?
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The shocking thing is there are still many people who will back the Tories. I work in a very labour type environment and we have loads of Tories.There are more UKIP than Labour. For all the Tory rubbish people rightly in my view done not believe that Labour are that much more honest than the Tories .Corbyn for all his promises he simply can't be believed on all of the money he will spend .Also he has a habit of hiding when things get tough .Labour have made there choice with a more middle of the road leader they could get the biggest majority in history. There is a massive gap in the middle of British politics. Oh how I wish Paddy Ashdown was still around to lead the Lib Dems.
 
Gills 58 said:
You've completely lost it now with the ludicrous "nazi Soubry" comment. You used to articulate some reasonable arguments on this thread (unlike some other Brexiteers) and I admired your determination. Now you are looking increasingly ridiculous. I can't take you seriously any more. I don't suppose you'll cry over that but at least you past arguments posed reasonable questions. You've gone over a cliff now.
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I concur. It’ll like someone has stolen his Vital password and taken over his account.

As much as I can’t agree with VG’s extreme views, they are reasonably coherent. He acknowledges that there will be a price to pay - but believes that is a worthwhile trade off to stop immigration.

GBN, on the other hand... ...nothing you say anymore has any consistent logic. It’s a shame because you were the one Brexiteer that was worth engaging with for an exchange of views. Now - you’ve completely lost your mind!
 
[QUOTE="chris who, post: 1691681, member: 13513" Labour have made there choice with a more middle of the road leader they could get the biggest majority in history. There is a massive gap in the middle of British politics. Oh how I wish Paddy Ashdown was still around to lead the Lib Dems.[/QUOTE]

Problem then is that you end up with a Blair-a-like. I rejoiced when he was elected under a Labour banner but I don't think he did much to adjust the Rich/Poor divide. He definitely had predominately capitalist instincts and tendencies.

Better than a Tory though, obviously.
 
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mehmets_curlies said:
A "nazi" is a socialist, and I don't think any Tory could ever be classed as a socialist, in any shape or form
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Despite the description contained within the abbreviation, Nazism has long abandoned a socialist connection and aligned itself to fascism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Just because Twatbat has the hots for Soubry does not change her odious anti democracy stance.

If my password has been compromised, WK must have stolen his if the sudden abusive manner when someone disagrees with him is anything to go by.
 
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I expect UKIP to grow strongly this year.
Britain won't vote Marxist , so all the while Corbyn , McDonald and momentum are running labour , they have no chance.
Tories will suffer too then will adopt populist politics when they are threatened through the ballot box.
The EU faces elections in May , and I predict sweeping changes.
 
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