EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 204 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

Wayne.Kerr

Vital 1st Team Regular
Trading free of tariffs for mutual benefit. There is no point going over old ground about the Import/Export imbalance between the UK and EU as we will never agree but, purely on monetary grounds, tit for tat tariffs suit nobody but the respective Exchequers/Treasuries/Protectionists.
I guess you've forgotten, because the EU is so nasty to us, but the EU offered us a free trade agreement, eg Canada+ type deal, which May rejected because of her red lines, as set out in the Chequers plan, which would have also solved immediately the Irish border issue.
I think you can keep that sort of free trade deal with the ball and chain of open door immigration, legal submission and pocket picking. That price is what euro scepticism and ultimately Brexit is all about but the EU do not get it.
As offered by both Tusk and Barnier but, as I wrote above, rejected by May.

You're not keeping up are you?
 

Therealwaldo

Vital Squad Member
Gillsbluenose, I'll take this in simple steps for your benefit.
1. The EU regard the single market as the 'Jewel in the crown'.
2. We say we want to leave the single market & customs union.
3. Leavers said we could have exactly the same benefits as being a member.
4. What club would allow you to give up membership but retain all the benefits of membership ?
5. The EU is governed by a range of treaties.
6. We agreed with and were signatories to all of these treaties.
7. The EU has stuck to the terms of the treaties at each stage of the process.
8. Brexiteers (eg you) outraged that the EU will not break it's own treaties to satisfy member who is leaving.

Which bit of this don’t you get ?
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital 1st Team Regular
The EU faces real problems , which will be illustrated in May when elections are held.
Populist parties will transform the situation.
I think you are on the wrong thread; go and play with your mates in the FLA, which is one of the oddest groups in existence. 'Against all Extremism' and yet the FLA is a far-right extremist group; or go and join Nick Griffin in Hungary.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital Squad Member
No it isn't really, is it? You have hit the nail on the head. As ever, the obstacle has been placed by who? The EU. Surprise, Surprise.

Jerryattrick's comment "Apart from the backstop which ‘should never happen’ what exactly is so bad about this deal that only allows a smooth exit during the transition to an actual trade deal? " Well, Einstein, if the EU say the Backstop will not be a problem once an EU trade deal is signed BUT the UK will be stuck like a Hostage in the Customs Union for ever in the event that a fair trade deal can not be agreed, who does that give all the advantage to when negotiating that EU Trade Deal?

Try and work that one out but pardon me if I do not hold my breath while you do so.
Yes, I did say apart from the backstop problem which includes the issue you raised. That is why may had to delay the vote and go back to negotiate/gain assurances with the eu. It is obviously doubtful that she will manage that.
So what is wrong with the rest of the deal? Mog has said that if there are adequate assurances then he will vote for the deal along with many other brexiteers.
Have you even read the deal? Do you just use abuse when you do not understand something or have no detail to back up your statement?
 

LSB2

Vital Squad Member
Here I go with rumours again... The EU have given an assurance that everything will be done and dusted by 2021. Junker is said to be trying to help May get her deal through parliament, but she has asked for more reassurance, so he has written to her. So hopefully she will be coming out saying "I have an assurance from the EU that everything, including the back stop,will be sorted by 2021"? Maybe she will on Monday...
 
Interesting and promising. I would tend to agree with him. My only slight concern is Tusk's comment "aim for". We don't know what will be included in the Free Trade deal and what negotiating position we will start from.

Will it be equal or will the clause in the Withdrawal agreement binding us to a Customs Union due to the Irish border issue allow the EU side to dictate unfavourable terms or conditions?

Although the commentator says he does not understand why May is persisting with "her" Chequers plan, I thought that just referred to the Withdrawal agreement and the EU were the side that insisted on the Backstop part of it. Did she actually want the Backstop?

Really, this goes to the heart of the problem. Those panicking and ruling out a no deal are doing nothing but destroying our negotiating position. We do not want a no deal but we need the EU to believe that we would accept it. Otherwise they can just dictate to us.

I have read a theory that the EU have blown the Irish position out of all proportion in an attempt to strengthen their negotiating position going forward to the trade deal. We all have our own thoughts on that.
 
Yes, I did say apart from the backstop problem which includes the issue you raised. That is why may had to delay the vote and go back to negotiate/gain assurances with the eu. It is obviously doubtful that she will manage that.
So what is wrong with the rest of the deal? Mog has said that if there are adequate assurances then he will vote for the deal along with many other brexiteers.
Have you even read the deal? Do you just use abuse when you do not understand something or have no detail to back up your statement?
Just explain something to me, because it is important. The Withdrawal agreement has not yet been ratified and it includes a clause about the backstop. If the EU are acting in good faith, why can that clause not be amended or deleted?

An assurance is defined by Google as "a positive declaration intended to give confidence; a promise" - is that as good?

If so, can I have your address and can you have £1000 in cash ready for me when I call round? I promise to pay it back if I happen to be in your area in the near future. You should know one way or the other by 2021.

Obviously, I am being flippant but I think the principle is why May's deal will be voted down. Unless the assurances have any legal backing which I suspect is what Rees Mogg will be looking for.
 
Gillsbluenose, I'll take this in simple steps for your benefit.
1. The EU regard the single market as the 'Jewel in the crown'.
2. We say we want to leave the single market & customs union.
3. Leavers said we could have exactly the same benefits as being a member.
4. What club would allow you to give up membership but retain all the benefits of membership ?
5. The EU is governed by a range of treaties.
6. We agreed with and were signatories to all of these treaties.
7. The EU has stuck to the terms of the treaties at each stage of the process.
8. Brexiteers (eg you) outraged that the EU will not break it's own treaties to satisfy member who is leaving.

Which bit of this don’t you get ?
Patent nonsense.
Point 1 is fine - we are happy for them and it does not concern us as we are leaving
Point 2 - Correct. So?
Point 3 - What benefits? - if you are referring to Single Market/ Customs Union, see point 2
Point 4 - See Point 3. We don't want any. Just a separate free trade deal and some form of mutually beneficial alignment.
Point 5 - Correct. Keeps gravy train travellers in their overpaid jobs.
Point 6 - We only have one vote that is being diluted with every new member admitted, but of course we agree with some issues and not with others.
Point 7 - I think Treaties are legal so those remaining in the club have to stick with the terms or be sued.
Point 8 - How am I outraged? I am getting what I want. Long term, all the outrage is coming from the remainers and the doom merchants. The only irritation from Brexiteers is the delay in implementing a democratic process.
 

Therealwaldo

Vital Squad Member
Gillsbluenose

3. Free and frictionless trade. There are various levels of access to the single market. Japan and Canada have negotiated two different levels of access. No one gets as good access as a full member. What would be the point of a trading club if they did ?

5. Meaningless sound bite gibberish on your part. The treaties are the rules of the club just like any club has rules.

6. Out of the club we have no vote and no say. Do you really believe that what happens in mainland Europe has no impact on the UK ? Unless you do we are throwing away the power and influence that we had.

7. Of course club members have to abide with the rules. What else do you expect ?

8. Your outrage shows every time you suggest we are being bullied. Typical victim syndrome. Another trait of brexiteers.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital 1st Team Regular
Your outrage shows every time you suggest we are being bullied. Typical victim syndrome. Another trait of brexiteers.
GBN - we are walking away from a partnership and expect the other side to give us exactly what WE want and then complain because they don't play ball. On the other hand, we know the EU would stick up for any of its members as they did when we faced the steel crisis.
 

Gills 58

Vital Squad Member
I've just discovered conclusive proof that Brexit must be bad.

Grayling campaigned for it.

His latest pronouncement seems to be vote for the deal or else the fascists will be really upset. Well, we mustn't upset them, must we.
 
GBN - we are walking away from a partnership and expect the other side to give us exactly what WE want and then complain because they don't play ball. On the other hand, we know the EU would stick up for any of its members as they did when we faced the steel crisis.
I don't know where you keep coming out with what we "expect". We only expect to leave the EU.

As Waldo states. their pride and joy is the Single Market and the Customs Union. They make it clear that we can not be part of either unless we stay a member as it would be cherry picking. Fine. Actually, we don't want to be in either (well, Keir Starmer does but he is in the minority).

The only expectation seems to be on the EU side as they seem to expect us to tie ourselves in to their precious customs union even though we want to, as you put it, walk away.