#COVID19 | Page 418 | Vital Football

#COVID19

A bit more news in from New Zealand. It appears that the outbreak which has just sent Auckland into lockdown is a new strain not the original one and that they have no idea where it's from or how it's happened. It's 102 days since the last transmission over there and already they have a cluster of 30 virus cases.

Doesn't bode well.
 
Old Red Fart said:
A bit more news in from New Zealand. It appears that the outbreak which has just sent Auckland into lockdown is a new strain not the original one and that they have no idea where it's from or how it's happened. It's 102 days since the last transmission over there and already they have a cluster of 30 virus cases.

Doesn't bode well.
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What’s the situ re flu in Aus. Usually we base our flu response on Aus. Fear here is a bad case of flu n top of second wave of covid. Havn’t picked up on new NZ strain. It has been remarkably stable and even strains A, B and C have been very similar.
 
Even cloth face coverings with limited protective effect, when deployed universally, can help to reduce the total number of COVID-19 infections and deaths.

Added 'no shit' conclusion that if there aren't enough to go around it's better to deploy them smartly. Eg to old folk and care community.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Even cloth face coverings with limited protective effect, when deployed universally, can help to reduce the total number of COVID-19 infections and deaths.

Added 'no shit' conclusion that if there aren't enough to go around it's better to deploy them smartly. Eg to old folk and care community.
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So that was another home run from SAGE then?
 
Calvin Plummer said:
So that was another home run from SAGE then?
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Part 1. You're trying to tease me again, you rotter.
Past 2.This is one of the reasons why I'm questioning the political influence. I can imagine Cummings shouting in their faces that there aren't enough to go around so suggesting we all try to get hold of some would be harmful to Our NHS.
Part 3. Saying something like, "there is no strong evidence they would work in the UK" (for example) is a far cry from saying they don't work. But can conveniently be spun to that effect.
Part 4. Yes, I completely agree. They could have taken the NYC route and encouraged people to cobble something together out of an old t-shirt. Better than nothing.
The advice looks - and always looked - weak, to me.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Part 1. You're trying to tease me again, you rotter.
Past 2.This is one of the reasons why I'm questioning the political influence. I can imagine Cummings shouting in their faces that there aren't enough to go around so suggesting we all try to get hold of some would be harmful to Our NHS.
Part 3. Saying something like, "there is no strong evidence they would work in the UK" (for example) is a far cry from saying they don't work. But can conveniently be spun to that effect.
Part 4. Yes, I completely agree. They could have taken the NYC route and encouraged people to cobble something together out of an old t-shirt. Better than nothing.
The advice looks - and always looked - weak, to me.
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It's a pandemic and while Cummings may be a little intimidating they have a larger responsibility. I completely agree he had no place being there but nor did they if they can't tell truth to power.

Come on with spun though, you need a clear unequivocal message and this just gave licence to every nut nut out there.
 
Pretty fair. Something obviously went wrong.
Don't yet know if they had no place being there or if you can tar them all with the same brush. Advice is advice, and good advice comes with caveats. I wouldn't want them to be overstating the case any more than I would want them to be understating it. Just their best assessment, warts and all. I just want to know what went on because the evidence world wide for masks had always been conclusive enough. Advise and recommend, Natalie. After that, the decisions are above their pay grade.

It looks worse, though, when they used to flank the politicians at the daily briefings. We do know, however, that their scope and practiced answers to likely questions were vetted /screened to avoid political embarrassment - that's a given.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Pretty fair. Something obviously went wrong.
Don't yet know if they had no place being there or if you can tar them all with the same brush. Advice is advice, and good advice comes with caveats. I wouldn't want them to be overstating the case any more than I would want them to be understating it. Just their best assessment, warts and all. I just want to know what went on because the evidence world wide for masks had always been conclusive enough. Advise and recommend, Natalie. After that, the decisions are above their pay grade.

It looks worse, though, when they used to flank the politicians at the daily briefings. We do know, however, that their scope and practiced answers to likely questions were vetted /screened to avoid political embarrassment - that's a given.
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Why is it a given that a scientist would willfully suppress critical advice in a pandemic? This isn't North Korea
 
Polly 433 said:
What’s the situ re flu in Aus. Usually we base our flu response on Aus. Fear here is a bad case of flu n top of second wave of covid. Havn’t picked up on new NZ strain. It has been remarkably stable and even strains A, B and C have been very similar.
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We're in the last month of Winter here Polly and the Flu season has been quiet so far and it looks as though it's going to stay that way. Just as well since we're still in the grip of Covid-19, at least Melbourne and Victoria are and they are not doing well. Covid is still happening in the rest of Oz and we're not on top of it yet in spite of lockdowns and all the other measures. The way things are going here indicates that we are probably in line for a miserable Xmas.
I'm relying on Forest to give me a lift.

Bday
 
in_the_top_one said:
Part 1. You're trying to tease me again, you rotter.
Past 2.This is one of the reasons why I'm questioning the political influence. I can imagine Cummings shouting in their faces that there aren't enough to go around so suggesting we all try to get hold of some would be harmful to Our NHS.
Part 3. Saying something like, "there is no strong evidence they would work in the UK" (for example) is a far cry from saying they don't work. But can conveniently be spun to that effect.
Part 4. Yes, I completely agree. They could have taken the NYC route and encouraged people to cobble something together out of an old t-shirt. Better than nothing.
The advice looks - and always looked - weak, to me.
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If you're out and about in Sydney these days you will probably see more folk wearing masks than not. And when visiting some stores, buses, trains etc I'm one of them. My wife and daughters insist on it, not that I need telling, it's an obvious help. And I do know that it only helps to restrict the passing on of the germs but quite frequently a carrier doesn't know that he or she is infected so why not. In spite of the obvious benefit some people still complain, it's just like Trumps divine right.

Haven't heard the word "rotter" since I was a small boy reading "Just William" books. Before your time, you'll just have to google it.
 
ORF for the sake of balance (and no doubt the usual amount of flak) here's another view of things.

A WELL WORN mask is probably beneficial. Whether a mask is beneficial is not as clear cut as people would make out on here though. My daughter wears masks all day long. She is a dental hygienist and treats patients in 30 or 40 minute sessions. They have been told a normal mask guards you for 20 minutes at which point they start to get damp. They also shouldn't really be touched. I wonder how many people shopping in their local town change their mask every 20 minutes. Most people here (including me) wear one in a shop, but take it off in between. If you go in five shops you should really wear a clean mask every time, as taking it off and putting it back on doesn't really work, and even in shops I see people walking round with them pulled below their noses, which defeats the object of wearing them.

Whether a damp or previously used mask is better than no mask is anyones guess.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Masks are good, mmmkay?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17922-x
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Interesting. Thank you for sharing.

I know they are transmitted differently, but it will also be interesting to see the efficacy of face masks when trying to combat seasonal flu; flu being airborne not water droplet transmission.

Anecdotally from ORF, as I haven't checked, could the 'quiet' seasonal flu in Aus, be down to more people wearing face coverings in public?

I am still of the belief, and the report that was posted does not cover this, although I did scan read it so may have missed it, that when observing peoples' behaviour wearing masks in C&A and other places, is that they are not being worn correctly in over half; notwithstanding that the correctly fitted and seldom touched ones do offer some protection as covered in the report.
I have even observed a pharmacist dispensing prescriptions, as well as advice, to an elderly lady in Sainsbury, Mansfield, wearing a mask that was below her nose and moving it to one side when talking!

A guide by the NHS/government/manufacturers would be useful.

Also, we live in a very litigious society here in Blighty, and it would not surprise me to see a lawsuit issued at some point.
 
ORF like everything else on here, you are only really being given one side of the coin. You are probably already aware, but I will start with the basics. Over here many things are devolved down to the national parliaments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Health is one of these, so Labour are responsible for health in Wales, SNP in Scotland etc

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/coronavirus-lockdown-rules-four-nations-uk

As can be seen from this Boris is deemed on here to be "a butcher" yet little Miss Perfect (Nicola Sturgeon) is almost incapable of doing anything wrong, yet whilst England is now deemed to be late locking down, Labour (Wales), SNP (Scotland) and Northern Ireland locked down on the same date,

There has been criticism of moving untested people into care homes. It would seem that in Scotland patients who had tested POSITIVE were sent into care homes. In Scotland the NHS gets the blame, in England (and probably the rest of the UK) BJ gets the blame.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/fury-elderly-patients-moved-care-22531776

I'm sure England has made many mistakes in dealing with covid. Nearly all of these have been replicated by Labour and SNP in Wales and Scotland. England also has numerous disadvantages, which no one seems to take into account.

https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/documents/censusresults/release1a/rel1asbfig8.pdf

There seems to be a fairly direct link between population density and deaths. Unfortunately England is the most densely populated large country in Europe.

Obesity makes people vulnerable. We seem to have one of the highest rates of obesity too. the effects on BAME communities are still being looked into too.

We are 20 miles from France, and a vast hub of international travel. The bug also seems to thrive more at certain cooler temperatures, which are more likely to be found in the UK than other places. New Zealand seems to be 1000 miles from anywhere. Aus has much higher temperatures and 3 people per square kilometre, as compared with 407 in England. I know you don't all live in the outback, but you have massive advantages over us.

As for "the clowns", they really are making a hash of some things, though they are not being helped by many people. Of course we will never know, but in my opinion this set of clowns will still do a better job than the other set (Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell etc).
 
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