20/21 Match thread - Newcastle United FC vs Tottenham Hotspur - PL

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Aurier has been described as uncoachable, Doherty is clearly not good enough. Tanganga a rookie.
Sanchez is not a top 4 CB, Toby declining, Dier is not a CB and Rodon another rookie.
Davies is not a top 4 LB and Reggie not great at defending.

So how do you account for us having the fourth best defence in the league?

 

[Greavswasthegreatest]

So how do you account for us having the fourth best defence in the league?

We bore the opposition attackers into submission with a slow painful death obviously

 

[Littlest Hobo]

I didnt ask for any result. I just asked for them to play well. FFS.

It is killing me. Whilst JM was working towards something (Or so i thought) i could handle his issues with players and the style of play we were having to adapt to. But now it just seems to be fight after fight after fight. Players look uninterested, out of form and unwilling to perform.

I cannot condone the players attitude. Some are disgusting in the way they are approaching the games. However JM is the architect of all of this and in my eyes must go, along with a lot of the deadwood who are holding us back. It feels like the early days of MP coming in and getting rid of the likes of Ade and Kaboul. We need a clearout and a rebuild.

 

[Spursex]

I didnt ask for any result. I just asked for them to play well. FFS.

It is killing me. Whilst JM was working towards something (Or so i thought) i could handle his issues with players and the style of play we were having to adapt to. But now it just seems to be fight after fight after fight. Players look uninterested, out of form and unwilling to perform.

I cannot condone the players attitude. Some are disgusting in the way they are approaching the games. However JM is the architect of all of this and in my eyes must go, along with a lot of the deadwood who are holding us back. It feels like the early days of MP coming in and getting rid of the likes of Ade and Kaboul. We need a clearout and a rebuild.

More than all that, we need team unity - the sort that makes you fight for your mates playing next to you, the sort that means you can call them out when you have to and them knowing you're not doing it to sound or look good after the game in front of the gaffer.

We now play like a 'team' shorne of belief. I've seen it happening in slow motion for us for the last 4 months at least.

 

[Spursex]

Aurier has been described as uncoachable, Doherty is clearly not good enough. Tanganga a rookie.
Sanchez is not a top 4 CB, Toby declining, Dier is not a CB and Rodon another rookie.
Davies is not a top 4 LB and Reggie not great at defending.

'uncoachable' by whom?

 

[Pompey Yid]

NRD, I have to give you your dues, you do a very good job of a middle man in a debate, suggesting this or that, thus getting replies, keeps it going, well done mate.

Ex you said earlier about us being more Spursy, the funny thing is I was thinking the same under J Masterprick, I was thinking we do this Spursy thing once or twice but now its every bloody time, and I also agree JM is more Spursy.

 

[Littlest Hobo]

'uncoachable' by whom?

I would say MP struggled to get him to do anything that could represent being a top player

 

[Nick Real Deal]

I

NRD, I have to give you your dues, you do a very good job of a middle man in a debate, suggesting this or that, thus getting replies, keeps it going, well done mate.

Ex you said earlier about us being more Spursy, the funny thing is I was thinking the same under J Masterprick, I was thinking we do this Spursy thing once or twice but now its every bloody time, and I also agree JM is more Spursy.

I try to see things beyond the obvious and not react out of emotion or anger. Sometimes the obvious is the answer.
Jose is a c--t and needs to go but so is Levy for appointing him and so are some players for not performing to their upmost.

 

[Littlest Hobo]

More than all that, we need team unity - the sort that makes you fight for your mates playing next to you, the sort that means you can call them out when you have to and them knowing you're not doing it to sound or look good after the game in front of the gaffer.

We now play like a 'team' shorne of belief. I've seen it happening in slow motion for us for the last 4 months at least.

I would say we are past team unity. Team unity wallpapers over cracks and gives a false sense of belief. It takes just a few issues for the team to crumble back into its old ways. There are plenty who are not mentally good for us. I would include your favourite player, ND who although i agree with you about his performance capabilities, is nowhere near mentally strong enough for us. I have been enjoying seeing Sanchez rebuild himself lately but the game on sunday showed his mental aptitude is pathetic. That wasnt JM fault that he developed a square head, a weak neck and unbelievably bad timing for his defensive headers. It wasnt JM fault that he couldnt kick a ball cleanly. I noticed he was using his instep to clear balls which we all know is, for a defender 'the safe way of kicking' as it offers less precision, more loft and pretty much guarenteed contact. A player who is confident in his ability hits it on the top of the foot with accuracy. He looked mentally unprepared from the 1st minute.

Oh there are so many signs and i agree it all stems from JM but changing the manager will get us 6mths feel good and then back to square one. Get rid, use the money from Son and Kane to rebuild and lets see what we can do. I cant take this shit

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I

I try to see things beyond the obvious and not react out of emotion or anger. Sometimes the obvious is the answer.
Jose is a c--t and needs to go but so is Levy for appointing him and so are some players for not performing to their upmost.

I have to say I find the majority of posters on here make their comments and judgements based on their observations and reason.

Yes, of course there is emotion and often anger - as well as joy, which could just as easily cloud your judgement - but the arguments posters make are in the main a consequence of considered thought.

This is by some distance the best Spurs forum I have seen.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I would say we are past team unity. Team unity wallpapers over cracks and gives a false sense of belief. It takes just a few issues for the team to crumble back into its old ways. There are plenty who are not mentally good for us. I would include your favourite player, ND who although i agree with you about his performance capabilities, is nowhere near mentally strong enough for us. I have been enjoying seeing Sanchez rebuild himself lately but the game on sunday showed his mental aptitude is pathetic. That wasnt JM fault that he developed a square head, a weak neck and unbelievably bad timing for his defensive headers. It wasnt JM fault that he couldnt kick a ball cleanly. I noticed he was using his instep to clear balls which we all know is, for a defender 'the safe way of kicking' as it offers less precision, more loft and pretty much guarenteed contact. A player who is confident in his ability hits it on the top of the foot with accuracy. He looked mentally unprepared from the 1st minute.

Oh there are so many signs and i agree it all stems from JM but changing the manager will get us 6mths feel good and then back to square one. Get rid, use the money from Son and Kane to rebuild and lets see what we can do. I cant take this shit

In addition to Kane and Son who else would you get rid of? Players like Ndombele (I include him as you mentioned him), Lo Celso, Reggie and PEH haven't been here long enough to carry the baggage that others do.

And on slightly different note, is the culture of a club bigger than any player, group of players or the manager? And can changing the personnel - even if it's wholescale - change the culture of a club?

Normally the culture of an organisation is established by the head(s) if they've been there long enough. So in our case is Levy a bigger problem than any of the players or managers? In the 10 or so years prior to ENIC we didn't win anything either so our barren spell goes back further than his chairmanship.

I don't know the answers to these questions. Just putting it out there.

 

[Littlest Hobo]

In addition to Kane and Son who else would you get rid of? Players like Ndombele (I include him as you mentioned him), Lo Celso, Reggie and PEH haven't been here long enough to carry the baggage that others do.

And on slightly different note, is the culture of a club bigger than any player, group of players or the manager? And can changing the personnel - even if it's wholescale - change the culture of a club?

Normally the culture of an organisation is established by the head(s) if they've been there long enough. So in our case is Levy a bigger problem than any of the players or managers? In the 10 or so years prior to ENIC we didn't win anything either so our barren spell goes back further than his chairmanship.

I don't know the answers to these questions. Just putting it out there.

Who would i get rid of

1) Hugo - Too old, not vocal enough, not the same player since the head injury, not worth building on.
2) Aurier & Docherty - Enough said about them to last a lifetime
3) Sanchez - Feel sorry for him and seeing Stones at City makes me understand about confidence etc but we cant go into games wondering which player is going to turn up at CB. He is worth another go but i wouldnt be against him leaving
4) Ali - See Jesse Linguard. I believe Ali needs to leave for his own sake. If we had a clearout and played to his strengths then i would be happy to let him try again.
5)ND - Get him out. He is just too mentally unstable to build on in a team who doesnt guarentee success. I could see him being world class at a top team but he cant pick and choose when we need him. Some of his balls into kane go from world class to disgusting. I have seen him unable to pass the ball to a player 10yards away with no one around.


TBH i could go on and on. Its about finding the ones who it matters too. The ones who want to stay and build and then get the best money possible for the rest. I see comments about Kane being so good even at 75% he is better than the rest and worth his place. That doesnt cut it and it effects everyone else. Its 100% or nothing. He is as responsible for our bad performances this season as anyone else imo

 

[Greavswasthegreatest]

'uncoachable' by whom?

 

[Welshtel]

We have to protect leads, we have that poverty in defence where we either lose games because of our defence or give away a vital lead. We’ve run our luck this year (and I don’t believe in luck). What I’m saying is we’ve gone behind in the league but other teams have dropped off as well fortunately for us but at this rate we’ll be out of the top four. We lost our grip on the top spot then the top four, were not good but we should be. There always seems to be a weakness in a player that lets us down. I agree with Mourinho. It’s the players mostly. But he could manage them stronger and spot the errors such that they don’t happen again.

 

[Spursex]

I would say MP struggled to get him to do anything that could represent being a top player

he was injured for almost all of Poch's tenure!

 

[Spursex]

In addition to Kane and Son who else would you get rid of? Players like Ndombele (I include him as you mentioned him), Lo Celso, Reggie and PEH haven't been here long enough to carry the baggage that others do.

And on slightly different note, is the culture of a club bigger than any player, group of players or the manager? And can changing the personnel - even if it's wholescale - change the culture of a club?

Normally the culture of an organisation is established by the head(s) if they've been there long enough. So in our case is Levy a bigger problem than any of the players or managers? In the 10 or so years prior to ENIC we didn't win anything either so our barren spell goes back further than his chairmanship.

I don't know the answers to these questions. Just putting it out there.

We're currently a shambles and it pains me to say it, the board's strategy appears to have imploded.

Our coaching messiah has been shown to be out of date and out of style from both a tactical understanding and a man-management pov. He can't get away with and can't do what was second nature to him. The World of football has left him behind.

It doesn't matter what part of the field we focus on, what set of players/what their strengths and weaknesses are and are not, nothing will change until a new strategy is implemented.

I've been warning about the shambles that was to come since I first spotted the signs back in late October/November, when most here were disagreeing with me and felt I had an agenda against Jose.

We're in that shambolic state now.

The club is now also in a big financial black hole; so there are unlikely to be any quick fixes, we need new leadership and a new direction and we need to grasp the new reality: transfer fees have and will continue to plummet for some time and so we have operated in that new reality.

We need an injection of reality, enthusiasm, and money to climb out of this pit. If we were a public company we'd be making a big call to our shareholders for an injection of cash.

As we're a private company, you'd think we'd be looking for new investors who like the idea of owning 20-30% of the business as we raise around £300-400 million to deal with the short term debt and to invest in players that can return us to the Champions League.

If we can't do this, then we now face a very long climb back to the top echelon yet again, it always takes longer than you think - I recall our North London neighbours saying it would only be two years before they were back in the champions league, it's about to become the fourth year they'll miss it and as it stands, look like a team who won't get near it next year either.

We're a club that's now stuck in reverse; which is exactly what I warned about where Jose was leading us.

Our identity has been lost.

It's likely our two big cashable assets are already planning their exits, if we don't give it to them, we will be a club at war with itself again and these performances will perpetuate themselves.

Mid-table mediocrity awaits us next season unless we have a decisive strategy that covers leadership, cash injection and top-class purchase plans, because just one season not in that elite competition makes us immeasurably less attractive as a player destination.

 

[Real Deal]

So how do you account for us having the fourth best defence in the league?

Check out our clean sheet record over the last 3 seasons then you can see the decline on our defending.

It doesn't matter if we currently have the 4th best defence in the league. Our shocking defending has cost us 15 points from winning positions this season.

Since covid defending has been an issue for a few teams but we were poor way before it.

Teams that have a weak defence won't win titles or CLs.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Check out our clean sheet record over the last 3 seasons then you can see the decline on our defending.

It doesn't matter if we currently have the 4th best defence in the league. Our shocking defending has cost us 15 points from winning positions this season.

Since covid defending has been an issue for a few teams but we were poor way before it.

Teams that have a weak defence won't win titles or CLs.

I wasn't suggesting we hadn't declined in the last few years. We had the best defence in the league for two years running so against that benchmark of course we have declined.

What I was trying to do was put it in perspective with some objective evidence. It's nowhere as bad as has been suggested.

Yes, bad defending has cost us 15 points but that's been a consequence of trying to defend a one goal lead often with a significant amount of the game remaining. And nearly always against inferior teams. Other than Man City I would argue if any other team had adopted this strategy they too would have conceded a similar number of points. But of course our peers would instead have asserted their superiority and put the game to bed avoiding this scenario altogether.

 

[10Hoddle]

I've been calling out his tactical thinking and game management for some time now; like it or not, Jose is caught in a conundrum of his own making, he still can't decide if we are an attacking team or a wholly defensive team, whether we are a long ball or a possession team, he still professes himself to be a great coach, but can't coach a team how to see a game out. Of course, he'll continue to blame the players, now it's sonny and Lamela for 'poor decision' making and our defence because they are not the players he had of old - which is an admission that before he had players who were were bought where money was no object, but clearly believes in his view that the current players can't be coached.

When absolutely everyone could see that their threats were coming from the long deep crosses from the right and he put Son on to shore our left up, I almost pissed myself laughing and knew we'd blow it, Son is about as solid a defensive player as Jose is honest.

He's gone as far now to lie about who was available when he was cornered.

He's lost the plot, if he hasn't completely, he's heading towards losing the whole of the dressing room.

It's deja vu; his reign looks like it will once again end in acrimony, our perhaps one saving grace is that whilst we allowed him to spend money, we'll probably only really waste £50 mill under his reign as opposed to 280 mill at united and God knows how much he has before that at other clubs.

Yet, he's still defended by a stout band of Jose fanatical believers, amazing really.

We are now more Spursy than we've ever been and Jose who was supposed to be the one with the winning mentality, the management skills and the ability to coach a winning mentality and improve players which were going to fix that once and for all is now its chief cheerleader.

Jose is more Spursey than Spurs.

Can anyone say hands-on heart now that they can see this dreadful man-management and dinosaur tactician leading us back from the wilderness next season?

If by some miracle we win against City, we should thank him for all his efforts and chase him away for good, his career in managment is finished.

Could not agree more.

If miracles are going to happen and we do win against City, my fear is that it will cement Jose's tenure at our Club for a bit longer, and this shit show will continue. On the other hand, that little piece of silverware may be enough for Kane to hang around for next season, but I doubt it.

City are the epitome of a Club with their shit together, and have been for some time. I envy their harmony, their respect for one another, and the ability for each player to play to their and each others strengths. They enjoy their football and I feel for their fans not being permitted to see this spectacle from the stands.

Apologies for coming over all sky blue and all. Not sure what happened there.

 

[10Hoddle]

We're currently a shambles and it pains me to say it, the board's strategy apperas to have imploded.

Our coaching messiah has been shown to out of date and out of style from both a tactical understanding and a man-management pov. He can't get away with and can't do what was second nature to him. The World of football has left him behind.

It doesn't matter what part of the field we focus on, what set of players/what their strengths and weaknesses are and are not, nothing will change until a new strategy is implemented.

I've been warning about the shambles that was to come since I first spotted the signs back in late October/November, when most here were disagreeing with me and felt I had an agenda against Jose.

We're in that shambolic state now.

The club is now also in a big financial black hole; so there are unlikely to be any quick fixes, we need new leadership and a new direction and we need to grasp the new reality: transfer fees have and will continue to plummet for some time and so we have operated in that new reality.

We need an injection of reality, enthusiasm, and money to climb out of this pit. If we were a public company we'd be making a big call to our shareholders for an injection of cash.

As we're a private company, you'd think we'd be looking for new investors who like the idea of owning 20-30% of the business as we raise around £300-400 million to deal with the short term debt and to invest in players that can return us to the Champions League.

If we can't do this, then we now face a very long climb back to the top echelon yet again, it always takes longer than you think - I recall our North London neighbours saying it would only be two years before they were back in the champions league, it's about to become the fourth year they'll miss it and as it stands, look like a team who won't get near it next year either.

We're a club that's now stuck in reverse; which is exactly what I warned about where Jose was leading us.

Our identity has been lost.

It's likely our two big cashable assets are already planning their exits, if we don't give it to them, we will be a club at war with itself again and these performances will perpetuate themselves.

Mid-table mediocrity awaits us next season unless we have a decisive strategy that covers leadership, cash injection and top-class purchase plans, because just one season not in that elite competition makes us immeasurably less attractive as a player destination.

Apart from all that we're in good shape yeh?