20210919 PL Match Thread - Tottenham Hotspur vs Chelsea FC | Page 14 | Vital Football

20210919 PL Match Thread - Tottenham Hotspur vs Chelsea FC

Result?

  • Win

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • Draw

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Lose

    Votes: 8 61.5%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
I am not the greatest Kane fan but I can't get the Kane bashing. Yes he wants out and he is know where near the player he was but then Son and Dele were just as bad if not worse. At least Kane got a shot on goal today.

People are saying we should play a system that gives freedom to our wbs. Why when none of them seem to be able to get a decent cross in. At some time Nuno must have faith in the youth. We started today with 1 cdm 3 cms 1 winger and a striker. That is unbalanced but when you look it's even worse. We had our formally goal getting cam playing as a deep lying cdm most of the time. Our golden boot winner playing on the lw but also tracking back in our half alot. Our goal getting lw playing through the middle and getting no joy at all from tiago.and our cm playing on either wing. It looked good for a while but with no real chances created. The only chance we did created Son bottled
 
Wellllllllll..........

First, not too bothered over the 3pts. woulda expected to likely lose this one on paper anyway so. Last one was MUCH MUCH worse.

Second, feel like Nuno had the lineup closer to what is most likely to be our best. Almost.

Third, it's nearly impossible to play with a team of that quality, when your best player, a World Class Striker, is playing like a total shitbomb.

The deference to Kane is killing Spurs right now. After his offseason bs, he shoulda had to earn his place back. And there is 0% anyone will get me to agree that this guy should be the team Captain. Frankly, thats disgraceful.

At some point during Moron-hoe's tenure, Kane was allowed to start roaming all over the pitch, dropping in deep, and acting as a #10 more than a 9. It seems now, that this has become 50% of his game, and its totally killing us. At no point in this match were those two old fukers tested serious with pace & guile. When our guys turn and look for that CF to run it out to, Kane is just not there, he's back playing ticky-tac with PEH 5yds in front of our CB's. Fuck that.

If we dont stretch the top of our formation, and make these CB's defend our goalscorers, we aint gonna win shit.

Kane needs to be sat, for his shitty play, and he looks like he needs a rest.

Players like Reggie, their attacking game is predicated upon having a target in the box. When someone's there, he makes plays. 4 times today, GLC & NDomb had the ball and, and HAD the killer pass, but no runner. "Creativity" is worthless if there's no one to put it home. That's on Kane and his selfish play.

Emerson.... Whether he was aware of how much of a gap Prem Game Speed was from what he is used to.... Well he does now. Figure he did the best he could in a very tough situation, and I hope to see alot better from him.

GLC..... Kinda dont know what to say. Did alot of watercarrying off the ball, but his inability to impact games in any meanigful way is troublesome. Is he in the wrong spot? Is he not healthy? Or is it just that this league may be too much for him? I was bigly in favor of his signing, and still think there's a quality player in there, but at the moment it would seem more prudent to give his time to Bryan and see how that pans out.

I was highly encouraged by the first 30min today, what happened after that??!?

Those 30min are one thing giving me a bit of hope.

Nuno needs to start winning matches. Wolves and then the NLD. Get those two under his belt and then he's got Manure on Oct 30, and then doesnt face a "top6' team until Scouse on Dec 16. We'll know then who are Mgr for 2022 is gonna be.

.

Yup about sums it up. Well said
 
I am not the greatest Kane fan but I can't get the Kane bashing. Yes he wants out and he is know where near the player he was but then Son and Dele were just as bad if not worse. At least Kane got a shot on goal today.

People are saying we should play a system that gives freedom to our wbs. Why when none of them seem to be able to get a decent cross in. At some time Nuno must have faith in the youth. We started today with 1 cdm 3 cms 1 winger and a striker. That is unbalanced but when you look it's even worse. We had our formally goal getting cam playing as a deep lying cdm most of the time. Our golden boot winner playing on the lw but also tracking back in our half alot. Our goal getting lw playing through the middle and getting no joy at all from tiago.and our cm playing on either wing. It looked good for a while but with no real chances created. The only chance we did created Son bottled

Because he is tearing the formation apart on the field.

Every complaint you had in your post (or nearly) could be equated to the CF not being in the expected area of the pitch.

Its not a sport of individual performances, its a team, and if the most important cog in that wheel is fukin shit up, it all falls apart real fast.

.
 
Lo Celso and Alli are not good enough; picking them is a waste of time. We see it too often when they take to the field. Moura's enthusiasm, ability in the air, and to run with the ball would be a better choice. Try Scarlett or another promising youngster for the other place. We've got nothing to lose.

Lucas isn't any better. The forward that rarely scores or assists.

Agree about the kids getting a chance though.
 
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Unlike the Palace game I find it difficult to get angry this week over another heavy defeat. We were simply outclassed by a far superior team who are European Champions and no doubt this seasons PL Champions, no shame in that. What the game did show is how far off the very best this current Spurs team is, with that gap likely to get wider.
Fielding what many will consider to be our 'best team' from the start was a positive intent from Nuno, and certainly for the first thirty minutes we more than held our own. The introduction of Kante at half time however completely changed the game dynamic, and in the last half hour we looked a completely different team from what we saw in the first third of the game.
Even at our best early in the game however, that chronic lack of creativity which fails to provide goal scoring opportunities for two of the best Premiership strikers, was all too apparent. I find it difficult to give up on Ndombele, there are flashes of pure brilliance, but all of the maizey dribbles and close control count for nothing if there is no end product, and there's not. As for Lo Celso, he's a waste of space and a waste of a place. We need to move him on to a club in Argentina or Europe who play sixty minute a week games. He'll never be an effective Premiership player, I'd be happier if we still had Lamela to come on for twenty minute cameos.
 
Let's just remember Chelsea are playing well because their players are playing as a unit and they are being played in their best positions.
The quality of our bench was evident yesterday agreed but the starting line up was full of internationals. It was nearly correct from Nuno but not quite.

As others have said we should try 3 at the back and utilise WB's more for attacking width.
PEH is not a DM. He is a ball winning CM and this is how he is played by Denmark.
Why Nuno played Gio as one of the attacking 3 yesterday confused me.

The biggest issue at the moment is Kane. If he is going to play tell him to stop dropping back. If his is not going to play ball drop him and let Son play up top.
I think there are issues between the 2 of them.
 
I don't think we were that good 1st half. We were better but still looked toothless going forward and was poor in possession in key areas.
 
I don't think we were that good 1st half. We were better but still looked toothless going forward and was poor in possession in key areas.

Agreed. It was better but we quickly got outplayed in the second half.
If we had played 3 at the back I think we would have faired better.

Look at the players that started for Chelsea yesterday. Are they really any better that what could have lined up the same formation with?

Hugo - Kepa
Emerson - Azpilicueta
Reggie - Alonso
Romero - Silva
Sanchez - Christensen
Dier - Rudiger
PEH - Jorginho
Lo Celso - Kovacic
Ndombele - Mount
Son - Havertz
Kane - Lukaku

I would say only the 2 CM of Chelsea are possibly superior.

The difference for me is the Chavs understand what Tuchel wants from them, they have a plan that they apply well and they work as a unit.

The subs benches are the main difference. The quality is apparent.
 
Unlike the Palace game I find it difficult to get angry this week over another heavy defeat. We were simply outclassed by a far superior team who are European Champions and no doubt this seasons PL Champions, no shame in that. What the game did show is how far off the very best this current Spurs team is, with that gap likely to get wider.
Fielding what many will consider to be our 'best team' from the start was a positive intent from Nuno, and certainly for the first thirty minutes we more than held our own. The introduction of Kante at half time however completely changed the game dynamic, and in the last half hour we looked a completely different team from what we saw in the first third of the game.
Even at our best early in the game however, that chronic lack of creativity which fails to provide goal scoring opportunities for two of the best Premiership strikers, was all too apparent. I find it difficult to give up on Ndombele, there are flashes of pure brilliance, but all of the maizey dribbles and close control count for nothing if there is no end product, and there's not. As for Lo Celso, he's a waste of space and a waste of a place. We need to move him on to a club in Argentina or Europe who play sixty minute a week games. He'll never be an effective Premiership player, I'd be happier if we still had Lamela to come on for twenty minute cameos.
I’m not going to comment on the match now , because you have said exactly what I was going say , Smithy .

I will add though , that we were up against a much better bankroll , one that has no shame , and that was the difference .

The Kante /Skipp substitutions tell the story perfectly .

The Chavs did it to us before , when they brought on Hazard at half time ,,,,,, proper game changers .
In both games we were doing well………….

when your manager is the sixth in line to be approached , it’s kind of worrying .
 
Agreed. It was better but we quickly got outplayed in the second half.
If we had played 3 at the back I think we would have faired better.

Look at the players that started for Chelsea yesterday. Are they really any better that what could have lined up the same formation with?

Hugo - Kepa
Emerson - Azpilicueta
Reggie - Alonso
Romero - Silva
Sanchez - Christensen
Dier - Rudiger
PEH - Jorginho
Lo Celso - Kovacic
Ndombele - Mount
Son - Havertz
Kane - Lukaku

I would say only the 2 CM of Chelsea are possibly superior.

The difference for me is the Chavs understand what Tuchel wants from them, they have a plan that they apply well and they work as a unit.

The subs benches are the main difference. The quality is apparent.

It only takes two.

Kane is now badly hurting us - will Nuno have the guts to tackle the situation?

As had been said earlier, no point winning midfield battles if you have no out balls, Kanes meanderings are doing him no favours and killing us.

The first half was encouraging, second was actually what I expected from the start; Emerson is a worry as of now he looks no better than Doherty and Reggie is now looking very ordinary indeed and too easy to get by.

Our only bright spots were N'dom, Dier and Romero. LoCo looks off the pace and Dele worked had, but showed little quality.

Very disappointing, but pretty much what I expected against the best team in Europe.
 
It only takes two.

Kane is now badly hurting us - will Nuno have the guts to tackle the situation?

As had been said earlier, no point winning midfield battles if you have no out balls, Kanes meanderings are doing him no favours and killing us.

The first half was encouraging, second was actually what I expected from the start; Emerson is a worry as of now he looks no better than Doherty and Reggie is now looking very ordinary indeed and too easy to get by.

Our only bright spots were N'dom, Dier and Romero. LoCo looks off the pace and Dele worked had, but showed little quality.

Very disappointing, but pretty much what I expected against the best team in Europe.
Do you think he is trying to force a January move? You said recently that City switched their focus to signing Vlahovic. With Ronaldo at United and Lukaku at Chelsea, what are his options anyway?
 
It only takes two.

Kane is now badly hurting us - will Nuno have the guts to tackle the situation?

As had been said earlier, no point winning midfield battles if you have no out balls, Kanes meanderings are doing him no favours and killing us.

The first half was encouraging, second was actually what I expected from the start; Emerson is a worry as of now he looks no better than Doherty and Reggie is now looking very ordinary indeed and too easy to get by.

Our only bright spots were N'dom, Dier and Romero. LoCo looks off the pace and Dele worked had, but showed little quality.

Very disappointing, but pretty much what I expected against the best team in Europe.

I do agree Ex. Kane is the telling factor. We know he doesn't want to be there, the players know he doesn't want to be there, the fans know he doesn't want to be there and so does the manager.
He is a striker who is not playing the strikers role and it is seriously compromising us as a team.

Time for him to be benched.
 
Do you think he is trying to force a January move? You said recently that City switched their focus to signing Vlahovic. With Ronaldo at United and Lukaku at Chelsea, what are his options anyway?

I think he's got post-no move blues and we now don't have a strong enough character either individually or collectively to stop him from ruining his and our game plans.

He perhaps still holds a hope that we'll sell him in Jan, but the fact that we were so far apart in actual valuations suggests it will still be a problem.

His brother was there yesterday, but he's talking to absolutely no one about anything.

Vlahovic is definitely a target for city, but then they now even have a struggle to keep Pep longer than the end of this season and there is agents talk of a growing divide between him and Ferran Soriano - which I'm told got worse after last weeks 'emptyhad' comments.

So the rumours of disagreement between Pep and Ferran over city's inability to up or press their bid as expected may well be pressing on Pep's decision making and cities aquisition plans.

So I have no idea what they might do next!
 
I do agree Ex. Kane is the telling factor. We know he doesn't want to be there, the players know he doesn't want to be there, the fans know he doesn't want to be there and so does the manager.
He is a striker who is not playing the strikers role and it is seriously compromising us as a team.

Time for him to be benched.

It was my single biggest fear would happen post the summer and sadly the proof is in the pudding, someone has to face him down, strip him down and build him up again or we have to admit defeat and move him on or we will stagnate for the season again,.
 
It was my single biggest fear would happen post the summer and sadly the proof is in the pudding, someone has to face him down, strip him down and build him up again or we have to admit defeat and move him on or we will stagnate for the season again,.
I thought in the first half yesterday there was an improvement and he was involved in a lot of our better moves. But he gave up the ghost completely once we went behind. As did Son. It was very poor from two of our most senior players.
 
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nham-defeat-against-chelsea-says-gary-neville


Harry Kane looked despondent during Tottenham defeat against Chelsea, says Gary Neville

Listen to the Gary Neville podcast as he talks about Harry Kane's struggles at Tottenham, Spurs fans' exodus and boos at full-time whistle, Jesse Lingard's predicament at Man Utd, Mark Noble's penalty miss at the London Stadium and the passing of Jimmy Greaves...


Gary Neville
Football Expert @GNev2


Monday 20 September 2021 09:20, UK




Gary Neville discusses how alarm bells will start ringing after Harry Kane's despondent demeanour during the defeat against Chelsea and provides his thoughts on the penalty drama at the London Stadium...
Speaking on the Gary Neville Podcast following Chelsea's 3-0 win over Tottenham, the Sky Sports pundit had his say on Harry Kane's barren start to the campaign after failing to force through a move to Manchester City this summer.


Kane looked despondent towards the end
"When Manchester City drew with Southampton, the talk resurfaced about them not signing Harry Kane. He's playing for Tottenham and he loves this club, but just being on the left on Sunday, I was thinking in the first half, 'if this doesn't work, it won't go down too well'.
"As soon as Chelsea went 2-0 up, I was watching and thinking he wouldn't be hanging out on the left for much longer. Nuno switched it straight away but when he did go central, nothing happened. He didn't get more involved in the game.

"They are difficult circumstances in the sense that he did want to further his career and win trophies. Kane chose this summer to publicise the fact that he wanted to leave, and to go and win trophies but Daniel Levy and Tottenham decided to keep him which is their right as he's under contract.

"But it's never easy when a player wants to leave your club and everyone in the ground and in the dressing room knows that he wants to leave. Things aren't going well. We had the stat at Crystal Palace where he'd played his first 90 minutes without a touch in the opposition box or a shot on target. Little things like that start to ring before the game.




The Super Sunday panel discuss Harry Kane’s current form for Tottenham and debate the way Spurs need to get the best out of their captain

"There were alarm bells and now there will be further questions as he looked despondent towards the end. He was playing against a very good team and he's been part of a Tottenham team in this situation for a number of years. He'll be thinking, 'I'm here again'. He'll be thinking, 'I'm not going to challenge for the title again at Tottenham and I'm not even going to get into the top four'. He wanted more.

"He wanted to challenge for titles and this Chelsea team will challenge for titles. I can't see any way in which they won't. Of course, they could get injuries but I just look to the bench. They seem to have everything.

"At this moment in time, I still don't believe Liverpool are the same team of a couple of seasons ago even though they're very good, Man City just haven't got the striker and Manchester United are doing OK but they're not the same as Chelsea. United struggled to beat West Ham."


skysports-tottenham-harry-kane_5518156.jpg

Image: Harry Kane was limited to just two attempts on goal against Chelsea - both taken from outside the box
Tottenham fans' boos and exodus
"My immediate verdict is that there were only a few Spurs fans still in the stadium by the end of the game and I was a bit surprised by the boos. They had nine points out of 12 and it had been a good start to the season. I thought they would've accepted that their team did very well in the first half and Nuno had them on the front foot.

"But they were playing against a top side in the second. We knew this anyway, but Chelsea are a real team. I've seen them three times now this season - also at Anfield and at Arsenal - everything you'd want in a title-winning team is there.
He'll be thinking, 'I'm here again, I'm not going to challenge for the title again at Tottenham and I'm not even going to get into the top four'. He wanted more. Gary Neville​


"They're good defensively and they can cope with difficult situations in matches. They were shocked in the opening 25 minutes against Tottenham and so was I. When I saw Cesar Azpilicueta selected at right wing-back, I expected it to be a lot cagier but Spurs really did go high press and front foot - something we don't ordinarily see from Nuno's teams.

"At Wolves he was famed for sitting back in a compact shape while against Man City a few weeks ago we saw them being pragmatic and playing on the counter-attack. But what we saw was something very different today with Harry Kane to the left.


skysports-chelsea-tottenham_5517883.jpg







FREE TO WATCH: Highlights from Chelsea's win over Tottenham in the Premier League

"When I was watching it, I was thinking 'how will Harry adapt to that in the long term?' He might go home tonight and think, 'was I left wing today?' I could see why they did it as they wanted Son to isolate Thiago Silva with Lo Celso on the right.

"It worked and they sacked Chelsea's midfield and back three a number of times but they didn't get the goal. Nuno's tactic was to get in front and to then revert back to type, trying to catch Chelsea on the counter-attack but that didn't happen. It's very difficult to break down this Chelsea defence even when you do have the ball and are creating moments.

"The best teams and the best coaches respond and they find a way. At half-time, we thought Thomas Tuchel might change it but we thought N'Golo Kante would come on for one of the midfielders. But instead he brought him on for Mason Mount and went 5-3-2. It was a brilliant substitution tactically but then obviously also as it's Kante who scores the crucial second goal.

"Chelsea were rampant for 10 minutes and the best teams do capitalise and they do score goals. Chelsea did just that."
 
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...elsea-fc-thomas-tuchel-tottenham-b956146.html


N’Golo Kante introduction shows Thomas Tuchel tactical smarts and highlights Tottenham limits

VIEW COMMENTS




By
Dan Kilpatrick
@Dan_KP
14 hours ago

The half-time introduction of N’Golo Kante changed the course of a pulsating London derby and underlined both the brilliance of Thomas Tuchel and the gulf in quality between the two squads.
Tottenham shaded the opening 45 minutes with a high-risk, high-octane approach that was quite unlike anything Nuno Espirito Santo’s side had produced previously.
They pressed Chelsea high up the pitch and flew into tackles, while Tanguy Ndombele and Giovani Lo Celso added a new urgency and zip to their passing.

Chelsea looked dangerous in transition but were wasteful and occasionally disorganised defensively, notably when Sergio Reguilon broke clear in a three-on-two – only to fluff his cross.

But Tuchel made a simple change at the interval, introducing Kante for the wasteful Mason Mount and transforming the game.
Chelsea switched to a three-man midfield, matching Spurs, and immediately earned a foothold in the middle of the park, and a pair of corners.
From the second, Thiago Silva meandered into the box and rose above Dele Alli to nod the Blues in front four minutes after the interval.
It was a sucker-punch from which Spurs never recovered.
Chelsea’s second goal was fortuitous when Kante’s 25-yard effort took a wicked deflection off Eric Dier, wrong-footing Hugo Lloris and creeping in at the opposite post.
While Chelsea could also introduce Timo Werner to further pressure Spurs, Nuno was short of quality and experience on his bench.
Youngsters Oliver Skipp and Bryan Gil – both promising U-21 internationals but clearly works in progress – were the best the Spurs boss could do, and the final 30 minutes were one-way traffic.

Antonio Rudiger rubbed salt into Spurs’ wounds with a well-taken third goal in stoppage-time.
The match was ultimately a reflection of Tuchel’s tactical quality and arguably Nuno’s limitations, as the Spurs manager failed to react to the changing conditions of the match after half-time. But given his options on the bench, Nuno was arguably at a loss to do a great deal more.
Spurs show promise
In the end, it was a morale-sapping defeat for Spurs and they now face another testing week with a League Cup tie at Wolves on Wednesday before another London derby at Arsenal next weekend. Nuno could find himself under intense pressure before the end of September.

There were, nonetheless, some positives to take in defeat after an impressive opening 30 minutes, which offered a potential blueprint for the future.
After their pedestrian display at Palace, Spurs were more aggressive and more positive here, and lesser teams would have succumbed to the high-energy approach.
Reguilon squandered a great opportunity and Heung-min Son took a heavy touch from Lo Celso’s pass, allowing Kepa Arrizabalaga to smother.
With Ndombele back in the midfield, Spurs were much more capable of playing through the lines and the Frenchman added dynamism with his variation and the occasional burst of speed.
That said, there were also strange aspects to Spurs’ shape, including the deepness of Kane and Dele Alli, who were unable to make an impact in the final third, where they are best.
While there is no hope for Nuno if he reverts to the cautious approach from Selhurst Park, there is a future in this risky, adventurous set up.
Had Lucas Moura and Steven Bergwijn been fit, Spurs would have had more to offer from the bench or perhaps been able to take one of their first-half chances.
It was another bad afternoon but unlike the loss at Palace there was at least something to take from it.
Kane’s ineffectiveness alarming
The game was inevitably billed as a battle between Harry Kane and Romelu Lukaku but neither striker was at their goal-scoring best.
Lukaku was reasonably well marshalled by Eric Dier for the first 45 minutes but still managed to create the Blues’ best counter-attack of the half, starting a quick break before playing a one-two with Mount, who miscued his shot.
The Belgian striker was more dominant after the interval, creating chances for Werner and proving a menace with the ball at his feet.
Kane, meanwhile, was again ineffective in the final third and spent most of the match scrapping for possession in deep areas, with two wide players running ahead of him.
When he finally found space, he tested Kepa with a low drive – but it was a rare moment of bite from the England captain, who cut a predictably frustrated figure.
A worrying pattern is emerging for Kane, who failed to have a single touch or shot in the box at Palace last weekend.
Nuno is yet to get the best from the forward and Kane is increasingly finding himself neutralised in the Portuguese’s system, regardless of whether he prioritises attack or defence.
While Jose Mourinho played conservative football last season, he still found a way to unlock Kane – who carried Spurs and finished the League season with the most goals and assists.
If Nuno improves just one thing about his side, it should be getting more from his talisman.
 
It's been said before, but I'm going to emphasize it - after watching the recording of the game late last night after getting back, with Kane, we might as well play with 10 men.

Nuno has to find some balls and deal with him.

Yep. It has been completely evident in the past that when Kane is on fire his self believe oozes through the team. Confidence breeds confidence. Players lift their games and we have looked unplayable.
Unfortunately there is a flip side to this as well. If Kane cannot be bothered then as you say we may as well be playing with 10 men. You can see the body language of the other players when Kane is not there to pass to in the box because he is nearer our penalty area, or where he overhits a pass from deep expecting Son to catch it every time. He is merely ambling around and the other guys must be getting really pissed off with it.
I am convinced that there is some needle because of the summers events. Remember Sonny liking the post about Spurs being bigger than 1 man.
I think Kane playing as we know he can would have helped build bridges. However his displays are burning more and more and are probably causing bigger rifts.
He said he would give it his all but that is cleay not happening.