Wembley

[HarrowGill]

?

Which is it? Is it "new" behaviour, or is it 'bin dipper" behaviour? Scallies have been doing this in major finals (apart from Hillsborough) since the 80's.

Enjoyed the rest of your post!

Thanks!

To answer your questions, its not new behaviour. But the form of this behaviour hasmetamorphosed into a feral, unmitigated free-for-all or anarchy that came to a head over the weekend.

Back in the 1980s/90s, there were at least a few controlling or mitigating elements to what was an increasingly stigmatised pastime of football violence. Not only that, but there were stiff sentences, you were more likely to lose your job (and your home and your gf/wife). There were fewer weapons, and there were rules of combat (don't hit fans wearing colours etc.)

Nowadays? You've got ridiculously fat blokes in their 20s wearing flat caps or stone Island baseball caps but worn with Jack Wills or Lonsdale clobber straight from the Sports Direct catalogue, out of their box by lunchtime, dribbling and babbling incoherently, trying to look hard (and failing), urinating on memorials and statues, lobbing bottles of Heineken into the air at random (and without a care for the families and children in their immediate surroundings), threatening to stab stewards... all before taking a deserved crack to the jaw or skull from Igor and his fellow fighters from St Petersburg, replete with their matching Everlast joggers, gumshields, and tap-out bumbags. And then everyone sobers up complaining of the injustice of it all!

A lot of the 'lads' that you saw on Wembley Way on Sunday were a disorderly, disgraceful but dangerous mess that often dont have a secure job, no spouse, no hope, and frankly no care for the country or society they inhabit. It's a problem that transcends demographics and provinces across the country but was largely kept out from football for from about 1995 - until very recently.

 

[HarrowGill]

I don't think anyone can put a figure on the numbers involved due to the very nature of the incident.
As more and more cctv is examined , I'm sure they can only estimate.

There were journos present stating that whole sections of the ground were occupied by the ticketless louts, including the disabled fans section and the section that would have been occupied by members of the Italian FA, as well as wives/families of the Italian players. A brief look at the stands suggested that all of the gangways were occupied, which is worryingly symptomatic of a situation where ticket holders were unable to reach or take their seats; this will have certainly been noticed by Wembley management and London Borough of Brent (as a few fire safety regulations would have been breached).

 

[HarrowGill]

Is getting into Wembley without a ticket even a crime? It would be trespass wouldn't it ( which is currently a civil matter)?

It becomes a criminal matter when attempting to enter a ground under the influence alcohol/drugs, with weapons or prohibited items (fireworks etc), which becomes especially worrying if any had firearms/explosives and were intending to perform an ISIS-style terror attack (just like at the turnstiles of the Stade De France, Paris, in 2015).

 

[SteveTreacle]

Is getting into Wembley without a ticket even a crime? It would be trespass wouldn't it ( which is currently a civil matter)?

I'm not sure, but there are some novel and peculiar crimes and laws specific to football, which don't apply to other sports (often rightly so). For example, selling football tickets on the black market is a criminal offence, whereas selling cricket, music or darts tickets, whilst it may get you banned from the venue or sued by the organisers, if found out, isn't criminal. You can have a beer at the cricket or rugby, or overseas football grounds, in your seats, but can't at football (I think the actual law is you can't drink alcohol in sight of the pitch, hence why you often see hashed yellow lines in the gangways and entrances at stadiums where you can see the pitch even in the foyer and in the corporate boxes, you can sit inside and draw a blind and drink and watch the match on the box, but can't step outside and see it in person). I had to laugh at Wembley, during the Covid crisis, that the vast majority of the crowd were crowded in tight, cramped foyers pre-match inside by the bars, because you can't take your beer to your seat, whilst the vast majority of the stadium, in the open air was empty. Couldn't someone in the government, FA or Uefa have seen some commonsense and changed this law, given the Covid crisis?

 

[Jerryattrick]

I'm not sure, but there are some novel and peculiar crimes and laws specific to football, which don't apply to other sports (often rightly so). For example, selling football tickets on the black market is a criminal offence, whereas selling cricket, music or darts tickets, whilst it may get you banned from the venue or sued by the organisers, if found out, isn't criminal. You can have a beer at the cricket or rugby, or overseas football grounds, in your seats, but can't at football (I think the actual law is you can't drink alcohol in sight of the pitch, hence why you often see hashed yellow lines in the gangways and entrances at stadiums where you can see the pitch even in the foyer and in the corporate boxes, you can sit inside and draw a blind and drink and watch the match on the box, but can't step outside and see it in person). I had to laugh at Wembley, during the Covid crisis, that the vast majority of the crowd were crowded in tight, cramped foyers pre-match inside by the bars, because you can't take your beer to your seat, whilst the vast majority of the stadium, in the open air was empty. Couldn't someone in the government, FA or Uefa have seen some commonsense and changed this law, given the Covid crisis?

Maybe alcohol should not have been on sale at the stadium at all and maybe the venue should have been stewarded and policed to the correct level.

Maybe there should have been alcohol bans in areas in london and areas should have been adequately policed.

 

[Tarian]

I wouldn't live somewhere like that

Gills 58 lives in Petts Wood - a "nice" part of Orpington that has above average economic indicators (income, unemployment etc)
It has returned Conservative Councillors at every election since 1986.

So obviously that makes 58 very unhappy.
The fact that Petts Wood is so Conservative probably "proves" in the mind of 58, that he is surrounded by "racists".

But like so many SJWs he has created his own pseudo-reality of an imagined racist hell-hole.
For example he refused to accept that one of his Councillors is mixed race - and has managed to get re-elected since 2006.

He will also have to make up his mind if he agrees with the establishment view that the more educated, the less racist people are.
Because Petts Wood is a relatively high-education, high-achieving area.

I wonder if he lives near Rolleston Avenue........

 

[Jerryattrick]

Gills 58 lives in Petts Wood - a "nice" part of Orpington that has above average economic indicators (income, unemployment etc)
It has returned Conservative Councillors at every election since 1986.

So obviously that makes 58 very unhappy.
The fact that Petts Wood is so Conservative probably "proves" in the mind of 58, that he is surrounded by "racists".

But like so many SJWs he has created his own pseudo-reality of an imagined racist hell-hole.
For example he refused to accept that one of his Councillors is mixed race - and has managed to get re-elected since 2006.

He will also have to make up his mind if he agrees with the establishment view that the more educated, the less racist people are.
Because Petts Wood is a relatively high-education, high-achieving area.

I wonder if he lives near Rolleston Avenue........

Guilty of - Attacking the person and not the subject?

 

[valenciagill]

Is getting into Wembley without a ticket even a crime? It would be trespass wouldn't it ( which is currently a civil matter)?

I'm guessing 'not really' a crime , but the rush to make examples will mean any other crime the police can find will be exploited , including local by-laws.
The media are milking this woke racism thing for all its worth , and Cressida will have received her orders.

 

[valenciagill]

Gills 58 lives in Petts Wood - a "nice" part of Orpington that has above average economic indicators (income, unemployment etc)
It has returned Conservative Councillors at every election since 1986.

So obviously that makes 58 very unhappy.
The fact that Petts Wood is so Conservative probably "proves" in the mind of 58, that he is surrounded by "racists".

But like so many SJWs he has created his own pseudo-reality of an imagined racist hell-hole.
For example he refused to accept that one of his Councillors is mixed race - and has managed to get re-elected since 2006.

He will also have to make up his mind if he agrees with the establishment view that the more educated, the less racist people are.
Because Petts Wood is a relatively high-education, high-achieving area.

I wonder if he lives near Rolleston Avenue........

Champagne Socialists , are they still called that ?

 

[markinkent]

Is getting into Wembley without a ticket even a crime? It would be trespass wouldn't it ( which is currently a civil matter)?

I reckon a charge of affray would easily stick. If I recall (from jury service) an affray was acting in a manner that could cause others to fear for their safety.

 

[Nobby_66]

It's called comedy. Obviously he doesn't mean everyone otherwise he includes himself.

Obcioisly users on this board are unlikely to mix with the wreckers of Sunday. Sadly, in my area I've overheard plenty of vile racism.

"Sadly, in my area I've overheard plenty of vile racism"

Yes, I seem to remember you mentioning that you knew a police inspector who regularly used racist language (IIRC, forgive me if I've mis-remembered).
Out of interest, did you ever report him?

 

[ThreeSixes]

Gills 58 lives in Petts Wood - a "nice" part of Orpington that has above average economic indicators (income, unemployment etc)
It has returned Conservative Councillors at every election since 1986.

So obviously that makes 58 very unhappy.
The fact that Petts Wood is so Conservative probably "proves" in the mind of 58, that he is surrounded by "racists".

But like so many SJWs he has created his own pseudo-reality of an imagined racist hell-hole.
For example he refused to accept that one of his Councillors is mixed race - and has managed to get re-elected since 2006.

He will also have to make up his mind if he agrees with the establishment view that the more educated, the less racist people are.
Because Petts Wood is a relatively high-education, high-achieving area.

.......

Cheers. I imagine he could afford to sell up, and move to a more vibrant and diverse area of London if he wanted to

 

[ThreeSixes]

I'm guessing 'not really' a crime , but the rush to make examples will mean any other crime the police can find will be exploited , including local by-laws.
The media are milking this woke racism thing for all its worth , and Cressida will have received her orders.

Yep, we are guessing.

I'm surprised Buddha hasn't commented? He's usually first to weigh in on trespass type issues.

 

[ThreeSixes]

Nowadays? You've got ridiculously fat blokes in their 20s wearing flat caps or stone Island baseball caps but worn with Jack Wills or Lonsdale clobber straight from the Sports Direct catalogue, out of their box by lunchtime, dribbling and babbling incoherently, trying to look hard (and failing), urinating on memorials and statues, lobbing bottles of Heineken into the air at random (and without a care for the families and children in their immediate surroundings), threatening to stab stewards... all before taking a deserved crack to the jaw or skull from Igor and his fellow fighters from St Petersburg, replete with their matching Everlast joggers, gumshields, and tap-out bumbags. And then everyone sobers up complaining of the injustice of it all!

A lot of the 'lads' that you saw on Wembley Way on Sunday were a disorderly, disgraceful but dangerous mess that often dont have a secure job, no spouse, no hope, and frankly no care for the country or society they inhabit. It's a problem that transcends demographics and provinces across the country but was largely kept out from football for from about 1995 - until very recently.

I'm not sure - from the "eye test" the people steaming in were ethnically diverse (assuming the Twitter video Trashbat posted on the Euro 20 thread was showing people getting into the stadium on Sunday)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1414294866704617486

 

[jogills]

What went on at Wembley had nothing whatever to do with woke racism, whatever that is. It had little at at all to do with racism. It was mass drunkenness and disorder that was allowed to build for far too long; that played a part in the scale and nature of the storming of the turnstiles. There is a large amount of footage of what went on and several responsible groups will be brought to book. We need to dissuade these people before they do more damage to our game.

 

[Buddha]

Back In the 90's I used to go to Glastonbury Festival every year and I never once bought a ticket!

One year Michael Eavis came up to our field and handed out some free tIckets but most years I just climbed over the fence!

Well, the festival would never have become what it is, or made anywhere near as much money as it has, without our input in the first place. And our culture includes the free festival. There used to be loads of free festivals until they outlawed them and thought it funny turning rebellion into money...

 

[Gills 58]

"Sadly, in my area I've overheard plenty of vile

"Sadly, in my area I've overheard plenty of vile racism"

Yes, I seem to remember you mentioning that you knew a police inspector who regularly used racist language (IIRC, forgive me if I've mis-remembered).
Out of interest, did you ever report him?

Nope.

Hope comes oit with the usual.casual racist stuff along with most of my teammates and the rest of the local population.

As I have no knowledge of what he is like at work or evidence of racist behaviour at work then I feel it would be wrong to report him.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

I`ve completed my video trawl of all the trouble at Wembley and would report that, yep, no doubt about it, the large hardcore of the offenders involved clearly walked with a Huddersfield swagger. Must admit, there was also, at least, five hundred to a thousand men and women involved who wore their ear-rings in the "Wigan Way" and I did see twenty to thirty blokes with "Tim Taylor" tattoos and several wearing Theakston Brewery t-shirts. Bloody northerners !

 

[Gills 58]

I`ve completed my video trawl of all the trouble at Wembley and would report that, yep, no doubt about it, the large hardcore of the offenders involved clearly walked with a Huddersfield swagger. Must admit, there was also, at least, five hundred to a thousand men and women involved who wore their ear-rings in the "Wigan Way" and I did see twenty to thirty blokes with "Tim Taylor" tattoos and several wearing Theakston Brewery t-shirts. Bloody northerners !

And, wearing flat caps they had their ferrets and Homing pigeons with them too!

 

[LockdownLife]

Apologies if someone has said this already...

I think the problem football has isn't necessarily actually a football problem. I believe it's just representative of society. Football is the sport that has the lowest barriers to entry and has the most followers in the country. Therefore when events like an England final occur every man and their dog is out and about.

The more problematic members of society are then in action and once you've got booze and mob mentality it's a flashpoint waiting to happen.

Sports like Rugby and Cricket have a lot less of the country involved and from my experiences are a way less broad representation of society.

Unfortunately for us it tars the sport we all love.