Sorry but if you can't start two games in a row...it is time to move on or relegate him to a bench role...someone that can come on and impact the game.
Watford v Spurs how will it pan out? - Game Thread
- Thread starter Welshtel
- Start date
Sorry but if you can't start two games in a row...it is time to move on or relegate him to a bench role...someone that can come on and impact the game.
It is sad that most of our core are not that old.
D
Deleted member 7310
Guest
This 3 at the back madness must stop, we don't have the wingbacks nor the dominant mid the play this formation, and the game has moved on - Poch seems the only one still stuck.
6 defensive outfield players and we wonder scoring becomes an issue.
6 defensive outfield players and we wonder scoring becomes an issue.
Said it before, say it again...what will we do when things are not going our way?
-Can we make a change to personnel on the pitch to effect change? No we really cannot. Our bench is extremely thin and Lamela is really our only impact bench player. (Hell I think Winks is a starter so I will not include him here)
-Can the players on the pitch adapt and swap to a different play style on the fly? No, I don't think they can. I don't see a leader on the pitch...do you guys? Half the time I forget who wears the armband. Where is the leader who will kick OUR guys in the ass after they screw up?
-Does MP have the courage to make a quick change when he realizes his gameplan has blown up in his face? I have not seen it yet. I do like his patience and that he is waiting to see if things will change...but he must realize that without leadership ON the pitch it simply will not. I know with only 3 subs you have to be careful, but if things are falling apart, make one change EARLY in the most impactful area.
- For the love of all that is holy PLEASE stop force feeding the back 3...the players we have seem to be more comfortable with a back 4 so flipping stay with it. Maximize our limited strengths and minimized our significant weaknesses. We have a lineup that works, so use it baby!!
**From what I saw and read...a quick formation change and one sub very early may have changed things. Quickly sub out Dembele, like mid-first half. Replace him with Winks, someone that is full of energy and hungry. Change to a Back 4. Move Sanchez up to DM.
Not sure if this would have worked, but we need to be proactive and not so damn reactive.
-Can we make a change to personnel on the pitch to effect change? No we really cannot. Our bench is extremely thin and Lamela is really our only impact bench player. (Hell I think Winks is a starter so I will not include him here)
-Can the players on the pitch adapt and swap to a different play style on the fly? No, I don't think they can. I don't see a leader on the pitch...do you guys? Half the time I forget who wears the armband. Where is the leader who will kick OUR guys in the ass after they screw up?
-Does MP have the courage to make a quick change when he realizes his gameplan has blown up in his face? I have not seen it yet. I do like his patience and that he is waiting to see if things will change...but he must realize that without leadership ON the pitch it simply will not. I know with only 3 subs you have to be careful, but if things are falling apart, make one change EARLY in the most impactful area.
- For the love of all that is holy PLEASE stop force feeding the back 3...the players we have seem to be more comfortable with a back 4 so flipping stay with it. Maximize our limited strengths and minimized our significant weaknesses. We have a lineup that works, so use it baby!!
**From what I saw and read...a quick formation change and one sub very early may have changed things. Quickly sub out Dembele, like mid-first half. Replace him with Winks, someone that is full of energy and hungry. Change to a Back 4. Move Sanchez up to DM.
Not sure if this would have worked, but we need to be proactive and not so damn reactive.
Spursex
Alert Team
Sorry Scotty, Jan and Toby were as much to blame as anyone, their defending for the two goals was abysmal.
freundorfoe
Vital 1st Team Regular
Once again everyone is kneejerking and acting like we lose every time a game matters, yet less than a week ago we won a game everyone thought mattered until we won it.
I'm as disappointed as anyone in the performance... but with Son away and Lamela out, plus several players out of form it was an experimental lineup that didn't work out and that's hopefully the weakest bench we'll have all season.
I do agree Dembele needed some help in the middle but actually we were dominating possession and it was a lack of creativity and chances created that was more apparent, and without Sonny or Lamela there's not much on the bench to change that. It wasn't like they dominated the midfield and created loads of chances. Both their goals were from set pieces so an extra DM wouldn't necessarily have changed that.
I'm as disappointed as anyone in the performance... but with Son away and Lamela out, plus several players out of form it was an experimental lineup that didn't work out and that's hopefully the weakest bench we'll have all season.
I do agree Dembele needed some help in the middle but actually we were dominating possession and it was a lack of creativity and chances created that was more apparent, and without Sonny or Lamela there's not much on the bench to change that. It wasn't like they dominated the midfield and created loads of chances. Both their goals were from set pieces so an extra DM wouldn't necessarily have changed that.
freundorfoe
Vital 1st Team Regular
also when was the last time we lost a game we had the lead in in the league? People are acting like we do it a lot but I genuinely can't think?
raphaellau
Vital Football Hero
FOF, I guess this is the age old debate of what is the benchmark measure and what each of us hope to see the club achieve. There is no right or wrong. As i had said last season, if u compare with say 10 years ago, i will bite your hands off if u offer me 3 wins out of 4 to start the season but when u hv a crop of players who went far in World Cup and just beaten a Top 4 or title contender, then to lose to Watford (no disrespect to them), is a real waste of effort and brings us back to Earth big time. As Kane said, the bunch is not young anymore. Are we happy winning against Manure and throw next 3 points? So a lot of us are disappointed bcoz we took one supposedly big step forward bit then we took and equally big step back. Sigh!
raphaellau
Vital Football Hero
And Moura was rather untidy in possession yesterday too.
ScottDaYid
Vital Football Legend
To be honest I haven't seen any of the game or goals back, I was so pissed off at the time to even look at who was to blame. I just meant in general I thought they were the only players that looked alright but if they were at fault then fair enough, Moura only it is
ScottDaYid
Vital Football Legend
He wasn't great but when you compare him to the rest of the team at least it looked like he was actually trying to do something
raphaellau
Vital Football Hero
Sure, nobody in the team came out with much credit yesterday.
Real Deal
Alert Team
Too little too late EX. We have had this problem for the last 4 years. It's pathetic. Same for Kane being run into the ground and Dembele playing at 50% for the last 2 years.
Poch's squad, he has had 9 transfer windows to get this right and he has still failed. Just like his ****** boss.
chrishove123
Vital Youth Team
Erm I think he is taking the blame here http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/09/0...says-there-is-only-one-person-to-blame-for-t/
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
No specifics, he then goes on to question why we started to go long ball and not play the same before we scored. If he is at fault....Why ? .....I picked the wrong players, formation and tactics, then I didn't make changes soon enough....is what I want to hear. Everyone knows the manager carries the can, that's stating the obvious.
I would think, that after watching the display against Manure, and basically smashing one of the best teams in the league, a shift away from what showed to be most effective (And back to what DIDN'T work in that previous match) is utterly stoopid.
Boy this was some very questionable coaching, and anything other than the coach standing up and taking full blame is excuse making.
Pocchetino has a tendency to overthink things, and unnecessarily complicate what should be simple best XI planning. And the fact is that our current squad's Best XI is NOT based upon a 3-back formation, no Siree is is not.
There is almost no opponent, maybe outside of 4 away matches in the season, against which I would put more defensive oriented players on the pitch than attack oriented players. It doesn't play to our squad's strengths, and regularly results in alot of possession in the middle 3rd of the pitch (See Sunday), alot of ball at feet action for our Goalie's because we pass them the ball so damn much, and few actual scoring chances, let alone quality ones.
Our coach is a CB, his nature is defensive, and he's having trouble breaking that bond. Defense may win championships, but if you never score, well....
And btw, I'm not a fan of 2 defensive CM's on the pitch generally either, it results in the same patterns.
I've been saying this here for years, and last season Pep proved it to be true, but there's a 4-3-3 style formation that is dominating, and would fit us to a T.
I wonder if Poch will actually figure it out for good?
Bad game, bad coaching, poor execution, stoopid loss. Might not be the last one this season. Move on.
Next match is a big one.
.
Boy this was some very questionable coaching, and anything other than the coach standing up and taking full blame is excuse making.
Pocchetino has a tendency to overthink things, and unnecessarily complicate what should be simple best XI planning. And the fact is that our current squad's Best XI is NOT based upon a 3-back formation, no Siree is is not.
There is almost no opponent, maybe outside of 4 away matches in the season, against which I would put more defensive oriented players on the pitch than attack oriented players. It doesn't play to our squad's strengths, and regularly results in alot of possession in the middle 3rd of the pitch (See Sunday), alot of ball at feet action for our Goalie's because we pass them the ball so damn much, and few actual scoring chances, let alone quality ones.
Our coach is a CB, his nature is defensive, and he's having trouble breaking that bond. Defense may win championships, but if you never score, well....
And btw, I'm not a fan of 2 defensive CM's on the pitch generally either, it results in the same patterns.
I've been saying this here for years, and last season Pep proved it to be true, but there's a 4-3-3 style formation that is dominating, and would fit us to a T.
I wonder if Poch will actually figure it out for good?
Bad game, bad coaching, poor execution, stoopid loss. Might not be the last one this season. Move on.
Next match is a big one.
.
Spursex
Alert Team
Son has been a decent back up at times, and now MOura can help carry the weight - but it means changing a formation that has worked so well for us.
As for Dembo, seriously he's been a 1:10 player for two years now, so I'd rip his arms off to be at 50%!
The bottom line is that when you've been over-played or over-worked in training through yet another summer, sooner or later it has an effect.
Out lethergy on Sunday probably could only be really appreciated if you were there and close up, our defenders were sluggish, almost disinterested at times - they were badly positioned on the set pieces and out-muscled to boot and look complacent - until the realisation hit that we had a game on our hands.
That said, I really do put this one down to Poch, he did have options and he could have used them earlier - unless of course you accept the contention that our depth is shallow and that the matches ahead of us is going to be a huge task to rotate and manage through.
We desperately need a fit Victor and Winks, let alone anyone else.
A sign of mental and physical fatigue is inconsistency and poor decision making - and I saw that aplenty on Sunday.
Poch has to fugure out how he steps it up - in normal circumstances at this point in the season you could start considering the new players you've brought in to up the dynamic - but that's not really an option, so we have to hope that the international break gives some recovery time to a few.
And if I were Poch, I'd be urging all my internationals to report with injuries that need to keep them on the sidelines.
I see Sterling has already played that card.
Alli, Harry, Trips and even Dier should be doing the same.
muttley
Alert Team
Not to pick on you Ex, but it saddens me when I read the bashing of the International game. I'm the first to lay into the FA, UEFA and FIFA for some of the things they've done over the years. I will applaud UEFA though for creating the Nations League and setting up a new competitive format that allows England to scrap some of the "pointless friendlies" and instead play games against top nations like Spain and Croatia. This can only help our international game and prepare us for major competitions IF we take it seriously.
Quite frankly, if any England player is feigning injury just to stay fit for his club then I don't want them representing my country. In Sterling's case, I'd be pretty certain that isn't the case. He is always patriotic and has immense pride in playing for his country. Ditto with all the Spurs boys.
Slightly different with Tuesday's game against Switzerland where Southgate should be using that as a genuine friendly to try some Plan B stuff. With Vardy's retirement, surely his number 1 priority should be finding a backup to Kane, so resting his captain should be a genuine option. It would also be fair for a club manager to pass the analytics of the physical state of the players to the international manager so he can make informed decision on the starting elevens / subs etc, but only in the friendlies.
Ultimately, I'd love to see more space created in the football calendar. I'd also like to see International Football back where it belongs. Ultimately, that probably means football pushing back on the money men and getting the top flight leagues down to 16 or 18 clubs only with winter breaks. There will be the downstream impacts of that of course and it would probably require a Premiership 2 and redistribution of the monies.
Wouldn't it be great to see kids idolising their club and international football teams like we did in our younger days? For me, I was the generation after the 66 winning side but still got what it meant to be Bobby Moore holding the WC aloft. I loved watching Spurs greats like Hoddle, Gazza, Waddle, Lineker in England colours and still love watching the current Spurs boys represent their country. I'm guessing I'm becoming a rare breed !!!
Spursex
Alert Team
It's OK Muttley, I don't mind being picked on. And I understand why.
Bottom line is I pretty much attend all the England home internationals and have been an avid supporter of International football forever.
However, after the travails of the World Cup and the start of the new season I actually think having a new highly competitive competition isn't smart - players aren't machines.
In this case I would prefer friendlies where it is not that meaningful to allow the manager to make simple 'try them out' choices instead of immediately being in a new high pressure media situation all over again.
For me this is just another governing body money raising gimmick that we didn't and don't need in an already crowded calendar.
Our players, given that so many are in the England set-up (and of course others) are going to be played into the ground if we are not careful.
As for Sterling (and others) I do think that managers and players have often had 'luckily time' short term injuries that have helped them in the PL...maybe we now need to act just as cynically?
And sadly, I do think this is one of those times that after our last performance I'd like to see Poch use it to the max - I've never seen us toil so much, look so heavy legged and struggle so much with the physical aspects of the game as I saw at first hand on Sunday, because of our lack of workrate, defenders got collectovely caught out and struggled to recover or get on the front foot - they just looked shattered.
We looked dead on our feet and everything looked like a struggle - and much of that I honestly think could be down to fatigue and being over-played and not having a long enough break.
I didn't think it would hit so soon, but Sunday it looked just like that, almost everyone was blowing hard when Watford players seemed to find a second wind.
Maybe it's just too much partying after the manure result - (but I doubt that), although the way Lloris came unstuck - is I am told, could well have been the story of a good few of our players.....
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Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
Poch could have freshened with Dier, Winks and Rose . The last 2 being way too late with Davies and Dembo looking poor from the start. Then of course we didn't really need Sanchez so a wasted selection IMO. I don't know but I would suspect Alli, Eriksen and Kane could have covered more ground due to playing deeper. Poch may have just asked too much of them to cover his poor set up.
