Vegan fascists, or rather, fascists at a vegan food fayre (n/g) | Page 3 | Vital Football

Vegan fascists, or rather, fascists at a vegan food fayre (n/g)

You are in a funny mood today. If you stop being antagonistic, you won't get yourself upset if people fire back.

Just an observation, I'm not looking for a response. Just re-read your posts and think about how they might come across to others

You don't think your, "TRiGGER WARNING", was in any way antagonistic?

How do you think that have might come across to others?

I'm not really in a funny mood but I have got a bit of a hangover. I've been off the alcohol for the last couple of weeks but I drank quite a bit of wine last night!
 
Ooooooooooo snap!

You do intrigue me. I reckon that despite our differences we could probably share a laugh and a joke over a couple of beers.

Sometimes you seem so very intolerant but other times you seem like quite a genuine bloke. I expect the same could be said about me!
 
Reminds me - where Lancs - not seen a post lately.
I believe he has taken a break from this site because for a period of time, every post was turned into a political or personal cause rant.
Even threads that were clearly football related disintegrated into political arguments.
His background was clearly in high level law enforcement and I think he found it all a bit tiresome.
 
I believe he has taken a break from this site because for a period of time, every post was turned into a political or personal cause rant.
Even threads that were clearly football related disintegrated into political arguments.
His background was clearly in high level law enforcement and I think he found it all a bit tiresome.
Are you sure? If he was in law enforcement, he, like me, probably left because people were being nasty to Dominic/Boris..........allegedly 😉
 
... advertising a demonstration in Dover against immigration which everybody (other than perhaps some apologist supporters) would regard as far-right, if not fascist.
Please explain why a "demonstration against immigration" is automatically "far-right, if not fascist" ?

Do you not have sympathy for those struggling to afford housing ?
Are the homeless - and their advocates "far-right" or "fascist" ?

And those campaigning for more school places - or a new doctors' surgery ?(because of the increase in population)

Not all immigrants have darker skins.
Some even know how to hold a knife and fork !!!
(p.s. who is that a joke against ?)
Concern about immigration re-appeared in 2004 - after an influx of East Europeans.
Do you remember Tony Blair saying the numbers would be around 30,000 ?
IIRC, Poles alone were over 600,000 !
 
Please explain why a "demonstration against immigration" is automatically "far-right, if not fascist" ?

A demonstration against immigration doesn't have to, 'automatically', be far right if not fascist. That's your word not mine.

Whilst demonstrations against immigration might not 'automatically'' be far-right or fascist, they invariably are.

The people who attend are usually a fairly homogeneous group of people: all white, mainly male, often fat and bald. There are always plenty of St. George flags on display. And whilst none of these things in themselves make the demonstration far right or facist, the people who fail to recognise them as such are usually those who are sympathetic to their cause.

Not all though, some people who are in agreement with then about issues of immigration would still recognise the protesters as members of the far right.

But if it's not obvious just from looking at the people who attend these demonstrations then tou just need to do some research and you find out anyway.

The recent protest in Dover was organised by a group called the Pembrokeshire Patriots. They used to be called Voice of Wales. Bloke called Dan Morgan. All you need to do is check it out.

I don't really care whether you consider them to be right wing or not. Nor do I care how you define, 'right wing'.

Having concerns about immigration doesn't necessarily make you right wing but if you are right wing you'll definitely be more than concerned with the issue of immigration.

Not all of those at the march were necessarily far right but it sure as hell was organised by the far right.
 
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A demonstration against immigration doesn't have to, 'automatically', be far right if not fascist. That's your word not mine.

Whilst demonstrations against immigration might not be 'automatically'' be far-right or fascist, they invariably are.

The people who attend then are usually a fairly homogeneous group of people: all white, mainly male, often fat and bald. There are always plenty of St. George flags on display and whilst none of these things in themselves make the demonstration far right or facist, the it people who fail to recognise then as such are those who are sympathetic with their views. Not all though, some people who are in agreement with then about issues if immigration would still recognise the protesters as members if the far right.

But if it's not obvious just from looking at the people who attend these demonstrations then tou just need to do some research and you find out anyway.

The recent protest in Dover was organised by a group called the Pembrokeshire Patriots. They used to be called Voice of Wales. Bloke called Dan Morgan. All you need to do is check it out.

I don't really care whether you consider then right wing, not indeed do I care how you define, 'right wing'.

Having concerns about immigration doesn't necessarily make you right wing but if you are right wing you'll definitely be more than concerned with the issue of immigration.

Not all of those at the march were necessarily far right but it sure as hell was organised by the far right.

Can you define the differences between right wing , far right and fascist?
 
Can you define the differences between right wing , far right and fascist?

Indeed I can. But I have much better things to do. I'm sure you know what these things mean anyway. But if you don't, educate yourself.

Where did the terms "left wing" and "right wing" come from?:
https://www.history.com/news/how-did-the-political-labels-left-wing-and-right-wing-originate

What does "far right politics" mean?:
https://www.definitions.net/definition/far-right politics

What is fascism?:
https://world101.cfr.org/historical-context/world-war/what-fascism
 
Indeed I can. But I have much better things to do. I'm sure you know what these things mean anyway. But if you don't, educate yourself.

Where did the terms "left wing" and "right wing" come from?:
https://www.history.com/news/how-did-the-political-labels-left-wing-and-right-wing-originate

What does "far right politics" mean?:
https://www.definitions.net/definition/far-right politics

What is fascism?:
https://world101.cfr.org/historical-context/world-war/what-fascism

After reading all that , I"ve decided that I'm a conservative !
 
After reading all that , I"ve decided that I'm a conservative !

Fair play for reading it all.

Maybe after reading it you'll understand a little more why I'm anti-fascist. Plenty of conservatives are anti-fascists, perhaps you could become one too!

I'm no supporter of conservatism but there are aspects I agree with. At least it is not totalitarian, which is what you get when you go too far to the left or right.

My own politics rejects both the left and the right. I take from the left the importance of community and socialism but I also place importance, as do the right, on personal and individual freedom.
 
Fair play for reading it all.

Maybe after reading it you'll understand a little more why I'm anti-fascist. Plenty of conservatives are anti-fascists, perhaps you could become one too!

I'm no supporter of conservatism but there are aspects I agree with. At least it is not totalitarian, which is what you get when you go too far to the left or right.

My own politics rejects both the left and the right. I take from the left the importance of community and socialism but I also place importance, as do the right, on personal and individual freedom.
I'm an avowed leftie but support personal and individual freedom. Without "left" policies I don't believe we can exercise personal and individual freedom. The very poor have the "freedom" to book a room at the Ritz but that is meaningless as they can't afford it.

Glib speech about "freedom" doesn't mean we actually have it in practice.
 
I'm an avowed leftie but support personal and individual freedom. Without "left" policies I don't believe we can exercise personal and individual freedom. The very poor have the "freedom" to book a room at the Ritz but that is meaningless as they can't afford it.

Glib speech about "freedom" doesn't mean we actually have it in practice.

Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice whilst Socialism without Freedom is brutality and slavery.

A great anarchist said something like that!
 
One mans freedom is another man's tyranny

I no more subscribe to your view on the world to that of the BNP. Both end up in totalitarianism and rule of the biggest fist. For entirely different reasons, to be fair. Your views are entirely wholesome and I would never say anything different.

In a purely ideological world I fully accept your views are great in the main but we'd all probably be ploughing fields with Oxen unless its the Star Trek form of socialism you believe in!! Yes Star Trek is a socialistic utopia.

Democracy (as in social democracy) is the least worst form of government there is. I am still to be convinced otherwise. Its far from perfect and slow to react but at least it does.

As to your initial point I agree let them be there but ignore them. Best way to deal with them. Like the MAGA idiots they eventually work out their views are no the mainstream.
 
A demonstration against immigration doesn't have to, 'automatically', be far right if not fascist. That's your word not mine.

Whilst demonstrations against immigration might not 'automatically'' be far-right or fascist, they invariably are.

The people who attend are usually a fairly homogeneous group of people: all white, mainly male, often fat and bald. There are always plenty of St. George flags on display. And whilst none of these things in themselves make the demonstration far right or facist, the people who fail to recognise them as such are usually those who are sympathetic to their cause.

Not all though, some people who are in agreement with then about issues if immigration would still recognise the protesters as members if the far right.

But if it's not obvious just from looking at the people who attend these demonstrations then tou just need to do some research and you find out anyway.

The recent protest in Dover was organised by a group called the Pembrokeshire Patriots. They used to be called Voice of Wales. Bloke called Dan Morgan. All you need to do is check it out.

I don't really care whether you consider them to be right wing or not. Nor do I care how you define, 'right wing'.

Having concerns about immigration doesn't necessarily make you right wing but if you are right wing you'll definitely be more than concerned with the issue of immigration.

Not all of those at the march were necessarily far right but it sure as hell was organised by the far right.

Most don’t and never had have any issues with immigration in general.
What many, both on the left and right were concerned about was the Eu policy of open doors and totally uncontrolled immigration.
To give an example, the authorities always claimed that there was about 3 million Eu citizens residing in the U.K.
When the vote came in to leave the Eu, the pressure group even named themselves the 3 million.
Now it transpires that nearly 5.5 million Eu citizens have applied for permanent status and an estimated 1.3 million have left due to covid restrictions.
Which brings us back to the point of how on earth any country can plan services etc when you have no idea what the population is.
So, to summarise, controlled immigration good , uncontrolled immigration bad.
It’s nothing to do with left or right politics, it’s to do with common sense.
 
One mans freedom is another man's tyranny

I no more subscribe to your view on the world to that of the BNP. Both end up in totalitarianism and rule of the biggest fist. For entirely different reasons, to be fair. Your views are entirely wholesome and I would never say anything different.

In a purely ideological world I fully accept your views are great in the main but we'd all probably be ploughing fields with Oxen unless its the Star Trek form of socialism you believe in!! Yes Star Trek is a socialistic utopia.

Democracy (as in social democracy) is the least worst form of government there is. I am still to be convinced otherwise. Its far from perfect and slow to react but at least it does.

As to your initial point I agree let them be there but ignore them. Best way to deal with them. Like the MAGA idiots they eventually work out their views are no the mainstream.

I'm assuming you're talking to me.

But if you think my politics are totalitarian you clearly don't understand anarchism.

You talk as if I am a socialist or communist. But I'm not! I agree with you that both the extreme left and the extreme right are forms of totalitarianism.

Your opinion is that social democracy is the least worst form of government (I'd probably agree with that actually) but I am opposed to all forms of government. Forget the least worst form of government, we can do better than that; NO GOVERNMENT AT ALL. That'd be best!

I believe that true freedom for all can only be achieved by removing the state and all other forms of hierarchy and control. Only when society is organised along horizontal lines rather than hierarchical ones, and built upon mutual aid and co-operation (rather than competition and exploitation), will there be real freedom and equality for all.

Call me a dreamer or a utopian or tell me that humanity is too flawed for it to ever work. But don't call me a totalitarian. That's not true or fair.

You probably have many criticisms of socialism/communism that I'd agree with.

'58 said above that without Left policies the freedom is meaningless because although all have the freedom to dine at the Ritz, only a few can afford that freedom. This is exactly what Bakunin was referring to when he said that, "freedom without socialism leads to privilege and injustice".

But communism and socialism are all about the power of the state. For full socialism/communism the state must have total control and personal freedoms are severely restricted or simply removed. And this is what Bakunin meant in the second part of the quote. "Socialism without freedom leads to brutality and slavery". I'm sure we can all think of communist states past and present that have proved that to be correct.

Incidentally, during the period of social revolution in Barcelona - when there was no government, no money and things were organised according to anarchist principles, the Ritz was turned into a public canteen where everybody could eat and drink for free.
 
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Most don’t and never had have any issues with immigration in general.
What many, both on the left and right were concerned about was the Eu policy of open doors and totally uncontrolled immigration.
To give an example, the authorities always claimed that there was about 3 million Eu citizens residing in the U.K.
When the vote came in to leave the Eu, the pressure group even named themselves the 3 million.
Now it transpires that nearly 5.5 million Eu citizens have applied for permanent status and an estimated 1.3 million have left due to covid restrictions.
Which brings us back to the point of how on earth any country can plan services etc when you have no idea what the population is.
So, to summarise, controlled immigration good , uncontrolled immigration bad.
It’s nothing to do with left or right politics, it’s to do with common sense.

I get that argument, shotty.

I've already accepted that people who are not right wing may have justifiable concerns about uncontrolled immigration.

But those with far right views have always opposed all immigration. And they always will.

So whilst it is true to say that immigration is not necessarily about right/left politics, I think you're wrong to suggest that immigration has got nothing to do with right/left politics.

Actually it's got quite a lot to do with it.