US Presidential election

[Tarian]

Give over, Tarian, she's Jean-Marie's daughter, ffs!

Guilt by association ??
Could this be another irrelevant "link" - denying a child could think as an individual?

If she'd really been that different from her father she wouldn't have become the leader of the same party he'd led.

That's a bit like saying there is no difference between the Labour Parties of Wilson or Callaghan or Foot or Kinnock or Blair or Miliband or Corbyn or Karmer.

Surely each leader adjusts policies and presents a different style.
Some people are attracted while others drift away.

But to a leftist, collectivist, it's much easier to tar all opponents as equally "far right".

 

[Buddha]

Guilt by association ??
Could this be another irrelevant "link" - denying a child could think as an individual?


That's a bit like saying there is no difference between the Labour Parties of Wilson or Callaghan or Foot or Kinnock or Blair or Miliband or Corbyn or Karmer.

Surely each leader adjusts policies and presents a different style.
Some people are attracted while others drift away.

But to a leftist, collectivist, it's much easier to tar all opponents as equally "far right".

Nope, not guilt by association to her father, that's not something she could have done anything about. But yes, guilt by association, in terms of the party she leads.

I'll accept that she is perhaps a little less fascist than her father but it seems strange that someone who doesn't hold right-wing beliefs would opt to lead the French National Front.

And I accept what you say about the different types of leader and direction that the Labour Party have had over the years but despite the differences there are common themes of social democracy. The Labour Party is always seen to represent (even though they virtually never are) the 'socialist' option in this country. As a result you'll get some people who will always vote for them and some people who will never vote for them.

In France the same is true of the FN. The fash will always support them and the anti-fash will always oppose them.

If Marine was an anti-fascist she wouldn't have ever had any connection to the FN other than her father. And she would have publicly denounced and disowned him.

Stop arguing for the sake of it. Marine Pen is right wing. You arguing that black is white aint going to change that simple fact.

 

[shotshy]

Another paradox Budhha !

FN or whatever they call themselves this week are a right wing party with some very left wing policies.
A bit like this current conservative government.

When a political party starts nicking the oppositions policies, it doesn't leave much room for opposition, except for generally whinging about things.

 

[Buddha]

Another paradox Budhha !

FN or whatever they call themselves this week are a right wing party with some very left wing policies.
A bit like this current conservative government.

When a political party starts nicking the oppositions policies, it doesn't leave much room for opposition, except for generally whinging about things.

It's populist bullshit, shotshy.

The Left has (as it often does) defeated itself by sticking its head up it's arse and eating itself from the inside.

The Right has (as it often does) manipulated things and positioned itself to exploit the situation.

Neither the Left nor the Right provide the solution. The centre ground is not the answer either. An entirely new system and approach is required.

When we have right wing bigots claiming to be liberals, and liberals claiming to be socialists, we must shirley realise that it is all a nonsense.

 

[jogills]

Perhaps you could define "basic liberal values".

Many people consider themselves "liberal" in a classical and literal sense i.e. "live and let live" - but recoil from everything about the "left".

They do not accept that "liberal" includes:
- a busy-body government interfering with large parts of people's lives
- taxing most aspects of their lives....
- people, the media and institutions telling others how to behave, what to say and think.
The left today are not "liberal".

Genuinely "liberal" policies are supported by the political "right".
Could that be why leftists so often use the lazy shorthand of "far" right in order to divide everyone into "them" and "us" ?

No I won't. You persist in labelling everyone else yet baulk at any description which includes right, far right, extreme right.

I don't need you, or anyone else to detail what I may or may not call basic liberal values. I think an overwhelming majority have a general idea of what the terrm means and accept that those, who abhor such values are to the extremes of the spectrum. I know of many people, who I would regard as right wing, who share basic liberal values. I know a smaller number, who do not. They are far right, or extreme right in small or greater part. The same applies on the left of the spectrum.

 

[MedwayModernist]

Another paradox Budhha !

FN or whatever they call themselves this week are a right wing party with some very left wing policies.
A bit like this current conservative government.

When a political party starts nicking the oppositions policies, it doesn't leave much room for opposition, except for generally whinging about things.

Shotsy - politics isn't simple right left.

Generally speaking, you have two axes, economics and freedom.

So on the X axis - you have socialism on the far left of the economics axis, and then pure capitalism on the far right.

On the Y axis, you then have Authoritarianism at the top, and Libertarianism at the bottom.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

A common theme of the "far right," is to be very authoritarian, with capitalistic policies. Hence marine le pen and Farridge being easily classed as far right.

FN may have some left of centre economic policies, but their social policies are VERY authoritarian.

Tarian btw mate - you can easily find those examples of Marine's positions by simply googling, political positions of Marine le Pen.

There's a quiz on political compass btw that's quite interesting, i'm libertarian left as you might expect. I'd expect those labour voters who are against brexit and similar issues to be authoritarian left.

 

[PhilK66]

Shotsy - politics isn't simple right left.

Generally speaking, you have two axes, economics and freedom.

So on the X axis - you have socialism on the far left of the economics axis, and then pure capitalism on the far right.

On the Y axis, you then have Authoritarianism at the top, and Libertarianism at the bottom.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

A common theme of the "far right," is to be very authoritarian, with capitalistic policies. Hence marine le pen and Farridge being easily classed as far right.

FN may have some left of centre economic policies, but their social policies are VERY authoritarian.

Tarian btw mate - you can easily find those examples of Marine's positions by simply googling, political positions of Marine le Pen.

There's a quiz on political compass btw that's quite interesting, i'm libertarian left as you might expect. I'd expect those labour voters who are against brexit and similar issues to be authoritarian left.

ZZZZZZZZZ. I prefer the People's Front of Judea (and before you ask I am usually a centre left voter). I just regret initiating what is turning out to be one of the most boring threads this year.

 

[Foxinthebox67]

ZZZZZZZZZ. I prefer the People's Front of Judea (and before you ask I am usually a centre left voter). I just regret initiating what is turning out to be one of the most boring threads this year.

SPLITTER!!!

 

[Gills 58]

ZZZZZZZZZ. I prefer the People's Front of Judea (and before you ask I am usually a centre left voter). I just regret initiating what is turning out to be one of the most boring threads this year.

Well you started it, so nerrrr.

 

[Buddha]

ZZZZZZZZZ. I prefer the People's Front of Judea (and before you ask I am usually a centre left voter). I just regret initiating what is turning out to be one of the most boring threads this year.

Well let me liven things up with a little punk rock number that I've just stumbled upon. The lyrics are simple, catchy, and effective. Enjoy!

 

[Tarian]

A common theme of the "far right," is to be very authoritarian, with capitalistic policies. Hence marine le pen and Farridge being easily classed as far right.

FN may have some left of centre economic policies, but their social policies are VERY authoritarian.

You have just lumped "Farridge" (guessing Farage) with Le Pen.
In what universe is/was Farage and UKIP "authoritarian" ?

Is such an unfounded "link" and labelling "far right" lazy repetition from the Guardian/BBC twittersphere - or a deliberate slur ?

UKIP policies under Farage were about as libertarian as one could get in a mainstream Party.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...nts/original/1429295050/UKIPManifesto2015.pdf

Far more "liberal" than the LibDems or Labour on many things.
Certainly not as interventionist as the Front Nationale.
(with exceptions like spending £12 billion more on the NHS and £ 5 billion more on social care)

 

[MedwayModernist]

You have just lumped "Farridge" (guessing Farage) with Le Pen.
In what universe is/was Farage and UKIP "authoritarian" ?

Is such an unfounded "link" and labelling "far right" lazy repetition from the Guardian/BBC twittersphere - or a deliberate slur ?

UKIP policies under Farage were about as libertarian as one could get in a mainstream Party.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...nts/original/1429295050/UKIPManifesto2015.pdf

Far more "liberal" than the LibDems or Labour on many things.
Certainly not as interventionist as the Front Nationale.
(with exceptions like spending £12 billion more on the NHS and £ 5 billion more on social care)

Farridge took a political compass test, and was unsurprisingly 90% on par with UKIP, Brexit party and Conservative party, the brexit party being described as authoritarian, nationalistic, and militaristic.

He's a far right authoritarian.

 

[Gills 58]

Farridge took a political compass test, and was unsurprisingly 90% on par with UKIP, Brexit party and Conservative party, the brexit party being described as authoritarian, nationalistic, and militaristic.

He's a far right authoritarian.

And still Tarian will say "where's the evidence?" and "how do you define 'far right?'.
:-)

 

[Tarian]

Farridge took a political compass test, and was unsurprisingly 90% on par with UKIP, Brexit party and Conservative party, the brexit party being described as authoritarian, nationalistic, and militaristic.

He's a far right authoritarian.

Did you actually listen to the Q & A ???
The Interviewer did indeed align Farage's answers as around 90% for each of Cons, UKIP and Brexit Parties - and 27% Labour.

But who described those Parties as "authoritarian, nationalistic, and militaristic" ?
She didn't.

And when Questions were explored, Farage said:
(after Q about Drug Traffickers)
"I object to living in a Police State ... with this lockdown."

(Should "Stay at Home" be enforced ?)
"We need a debate about easing lockdown."

(Human Rights Act)
"We are born Free. Rights shouldn't be "given" to us by the State"
(Surely something Buddha would support ??)

Do they not sound liberal or libertarian to you ?

The whole point of Political Compass tests is to distinguish Economics from Social matters - to provide more dimensions than the discredited "Right v Left" binary.

 

[madrid_gill]

That's a bit like saying there is no difference between the Labour Parties of Wilson or Callaghan or Foot or Kinnock or Blair or Miliband or Corbyn or Karmer.

Was Karmer the one with the chameleon?

 

[MedwayModernist]

Shock horror, a far right authoritarian doesn't like it when he's in a group that's being told what to do.

He's anti immigrant, he's anti the wrong sort of immigrant, and he'd like to kick people out based on race. Once that's done, who else do you think he'd like to kick out based on something else?

Guy is a ****.

 

[shotshy]

Shock horror, a far right authoritarian doesn't like it when he's in a group that's being told what to do.

He's anti immigrant, he's anti the wrong sort of immigrant, and he'd like to kick people out based on race. Once that's done, who else do you think he'd like to kick out based on something else?

Guy is a ****.

Yet another bigot who makes stuff up to suit their views on life and people.
You don’t even know you’re doing it, do you.
The only thing correct in your post is that Farage is a **** and he’s anti immigration.
I don’t recall him ever saying anything about kicking people out.
Maybe you have evidence of this.
If he actually advocates forcibly kicking people out, convicted criminals excluded, I’ll happily concede.

 

[Tarian]

And still Tarian will say "where's the evidence?" ....:-)

Medway M's link was indeed "evidence" - but of a conclusion opposite to "authoritarian".
(Did he actually watch and listen..?)

..... and "how do you define 'far right?'.:-)

And if he - or you - think that the answers Farage gave were "far right", then either millions of British people are "far right".....
(...or more likely mainstream, with his critics being so far "left" that everything to them seems "far right"....)
... or your definition # is not the same as in SJW land !

# Given the constant lack of definition by users of "far right", it seems that there is no definition (and certainly not a consistent one - or one born out by facts).

So it's just a lazy "othering" by one SJW to signal to another SJW.

 

[MedwayModernist]

Yet another bigot who makes stuff up to suit their views on life and people.
You don’t even know you’re doing it, do you.
The only thing correct in your post is that Farage is a **** and he’s anti immigration.
I don’t recall him ever saying anything about kicking people out.
Maybe you have evidence of this.
If he actually advocates forcibly kicking people out, convicted criminals excluded, I’ll happily concede.

He's a dog whistler, simple as.

I await your apology for calling me a bigot.

 

[Tarian]

He's anti immigrant, he's anti the wrong sort of immigrant, and he'd like to kick people out based on race.
Guy is a ****.

Medway M.

Farage has never been "anti-immigrant"- just against mass, uncontrolled immigration.
You know the difference perfectly well. (I assume that you do....)

This is straight from the far left's playbook - conflate the personality of an individual immigrant with the wide-spread impact of mass-immigration.

When has he ever said "he'd like to kick people out based on race" ??

You should be ashamed !