US Politics Thread | Page 305 | Vital Football

US Politics Thread

Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
Of course, I would even like to think that because of the MeToo movement (which began with good intentions) that more women have the courage to do so and I think we have seen that.

However, the hysteria that arises whenever someone is accused has gotten out of hand. Everyone is guilty without any kind of due process. Mobs in the streets baying for blood. It's insanity.
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This is patently untrue. Robert Mueller was just accused. He referred it to the FBI. No hysterics, nothing. It looks like he was being set up by right-wingers who believed what you seem to--that any accusation, no matter how far-fetched or ludicrous, is reported and publicized at face value with no reporting, no vetting, no corroboration, no questions. That is not how this works.

The media (at least the reputable ones) do vet these things and make sure the accusers are credible before they go to press. In the case of Kavanaugh that you are referencing, there is one accuser--one almost no one had heard of, because her story was unsubstantiated--who now admits she made it up. Note that she was such a non-entity that your source is the Washington Times--since she was never really known as an accuser, there is no news hook here other than to use her to discredit others. The other women who received media attention DID have credibility and all they asked for was a real FBI investigation. That did not happen. There is zero reason to be believe that Dr. Ford or the Yale accuser were making anything up.

I'd also question your use of "mobs in the streets baying for blood." What? Where? When? That is completely untrue in every way.

There have been countless women who have been sexually harassed and assaulted. Women are not safe at work, in the street, on public transportation, or in our own homes. Every single woman I know--EVERY SINGLE WOMAN--has a story about this. More than one story, in fact. We just had a woman raped on campus while she was walking to an 8:00 AM class. Women have to watch their drinks constantly, monitor how they walk home, be careful saying no because rejection can lead to violence, but then not lead on because then you are asking for it. Women have to think about what they wear, whether or not to make eye contact, consider the best escape route in case things go south... It's exhausting.

One final note: The problem has never been that women aren't sexually harassed and assaulted. Men have just gotten away with it because no one believed women. Remember: Men are almost never falsely accused. Most women are actually harassed or assaulted. So the idea that somehow protecting men from false accusations is more important than listening to the women who have systematically and systemically been ignored in the past is both ludicrous and bullshit.
 
villabrownie said:
This is patently untrue. Robert Mueller was just accused. He referred it to the FBI. No hysterics, nothing. It looks like he was being set up by right-wingers who believed what you seem to--that any accusation, no matter how far-fetched or ludicrous, is reported and publicized at face value with no reporting, no vetting, no corroboration, no questions. That is not how this works.

The media (at least the reputable ones) do vet these things and make sure the accusers are credible before they go to press. In the case of Kavanaugh that you are referencing, there is one accuser--one almost no one had heard of, because her story was unsubstantiated--who now admits she made it up. Note that she was such a non-entity that your source is the Washington Times--since she was never really known as an accuser, there is no news hook here other than to use her to discredit others. The other women who received media attention DID have credibility and all they asked for was a real FBI investigation. That did not happen. There is zero reason to be believe that Dr. Ford or the Yale accuser were making anything up.

I'd also question your use of "mobs in the streets baying for blood." What? Where? When? That is completely untrue in every way.

There have been countless women who have been sexually harassed and assaulted. Women are not safe at work, in the street, on public transportation, or in our own homes. Every single woman I know--EVERY SINGLE WOMAN--has a story about this. More than one story, in fact. We just had a woman raped on campus while she was walking to an 8:00 AM class. Women have to watch their drinks constantly, monitor how they walk home, be careful saying no because rejection can lead to violence, but then not lead on because then you are asking for it. Women have to think about what they wear, whether or not to make eye contact, consider the best escape route in case things go south... It's exhausting.

One final note: The problem has never been that women aren't sexually harassed and assaulted. Men have just gotten away with it because no one believed women. Remember: Men are almost never falsely accused. Most women are actually harassed or assaulted. So the idea that somehow protecting men from false accusations is more important than listening to the women who have systematically and systemically been ignored in the past is both ludicrous and bullshit.
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What is patently untrue? The hysteria? I'm really only referring to social media, maybe you haven't seen some of the ludicrous tweets and posts that I have. How about this from Teen Vogue columnist Emily Lindin "Sorry. If some innocent men's reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay". What absolute fucking nonsense. How does shit like that help anything? And regarding the "mobs" have you not seen any of the protests during and after the hearing? Does innocent until proven guilty not matter anymore?

I didn't say that far-fetched accusations were taken at face value and reported. I know there has to be some corroboration, or at least something to go on. But where's the evidence? This is from USA Today just a few hours ago...

"Committee investigators found no verifiable evidence that supported Dr. Ford’s allegations against Justice Kavanaugh. The witnesses that Dr. Ford identified as individuals who could corroborate her allegations failed to do so, and in fact, contradicted her."

So what are we supposed to do? Believe them anyway? What kind of precedent does that set?

Is there not a part of you that thinks this may have been a political hit job?

And I didn't say it was "more important" to protect men from false accusations than listening to women. Don't be ridiculous. But is it not at least something to consider before throwing men under the bus?
 
The FBI did not speak to any number of the people on Ford’s or Ramirez’s lists (see https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...t-kavanaugh-limited-trump-white-house/572236/). McGahn limited the investigation to push this through. There is no question that this was a show designed to give Republicans cover to vote him in. No question at all. People wanted to corroborate. They reached out to the FBI. And they were not given a chance to do so.

So no, there is no part of me that thinks this was a political hit job on Kavanaugh. Ramirez didn’t go to the press—other people who remember it happening did. Ford was talking about this years ago and tried to let the White House know so that he wouldn’t get to the hearing stage. Her life is destroyed and as of a couple weeks ago still couldn’t go home due to death threats. He’s on the Supreme Court. Why on earth would anyone do that?

In terms of mobs, people chanting outside of the Supreme Court has NOTHING on the “very fine people” carrying tiki torches and chanting white pride messages, nor do they compare to the Proud Boys attacking with impunity in NYC. The violent mobs are overwhelmingly on one side, and it’s not the left.
 
Well we can go on about the Kavanaugh case or any other high profile cases all day, fact remains it's still innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

Have you seen the video of the old black homeless woman being assaulted and knocked to the ground because she's a Trump supporter? Imagine it was Trump supporters doing that? There would be wall to wall coverage and outrage. Instead it's only reported by a handful. Seems a bit like media bias to me. I'm not doubting the violence historically has been from the right, but fair play to Antifa for at least trying to balance things out.

*by the way, I'm not right or left, I just look at both sides without bias, and like to stir shit.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 said:
The first things the Dems do is push for electoral reform and more oversight into finances. Straight to the heart of the matter.
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I noticed that the Democrats won about 43 million votes for the Senate compared with 37 million for the GOP. And yet, they will end up with fewer seats! I hate the first-past-the-post-system in politics - it's totally un-representative.
 
Just so bizarre with all that Russia stuff - I thought I'd misheard lol

Then his tax returns he's not refusing to release them, but his lawyers say don't whilst you're being audited.

Asked about attacks and anti semiticism and bringing the country together - No US President has done so much for Israel.

But what about American and bringing people together - it's the media's fault.
 
A black reporter, Yamiche Alcindor, asked about concerns from critics that Trump’s nationalist proclamation carries various racial undertones. Trump replied - “That’s such a racist question! To say what you said is so insulting to me, it’s a very terrible thing you said.”
 
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