US Politics Thread | Page 644 | Vital Football

US Politics Thread

BodyButter said:
I think they are quite good at wars. They took over Afghanistan and Iraq in no time. Their mistake was staying and trying to impose their culture on those countries without the stomach to do what would have been necessary to achieve that (I'm not supporting that idea).
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They're just good at starting them, they have incredible might and resources but have no clue how to see anything out, at least, that has been the case since WW2.

Britain is not that much better it has to be said.
 
Seems to me like the Yanks are going to shaft the Allies (Brits) even with people still to be evacuated. I’m sure even the british soldiers deployed there are currently on edge with what is going on.

Let’s hope there are repercussions if even if a single Brit doesn’t make it home… I’m sure our government will hold the yanks to account.
 
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Reading this morning that words have been had at the highest military level, because our boys and girls are making the yanks look bad, and it isnt playing well in America.
 
I very rarely post on here, but let me give you all some knowledge as I am seeing things, as the spouse of a US Military service member.
The US forces (ie the men and women on the ground who do the actual action) are ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes, at all times. However, they have to follow orders, which come from the Commander in Chief of the military (ie. the President). In the US, the president is the Commander in Chief and like it or not, it's his decision ultimately. I see a couple of posts earlier saying "the military" is being weak, or not doing its job. That's true, but not the units themselves, nor the field commanders on the ground - they operate under orders from the Pentagon, who operate under orders from the Commander in Chief. This equates to taking military orders from career politicians and semi-retired "generals" who have worked their way into the Pentagon, in most cases not on pure merit, who unfortunately are far more worried about optics and perception in the media than actually doing the right thing and saving lives. If anyone thinks the men and women on the ground are not frustrated, embarrassed and angry at what is transpiring, let me set the record straight - they 100% are.
Taking occupation of Afghanistan (Bush) was a mistake and it has been compounded by subsequent leadership for 20 years. Revenge and repurcussions for 9/11 was always going to happen, but a short-term military-led offensive was the preference of the actual military leadership, not an occupation.
Getting out was always going to happen, but the manner in which it has happened has been just about as bad as it can get. The politicians wanted the positive optics of being able to "celebrate" on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, without any thought for the people they were affecting or lives lost and destroyed in the process.
The whole situation is an embarrassment to the country, all in the name of scoring political points.
 
Pangloss said:
They're just good at starting them, they have incredible might and resources but have no clue how to see anything out, at least, that has been the case since WW2.

Britain is not that much better it has to be said.
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If you're a cynic and think about Eisenhower's final address in office its easy to say maybe that's by design. America has a machine that wants to go to war and has little incentive other than public opinion to end them. The military doesn't want budget cuts but how do you justify maintaining such an enormous budget when there is no conflict?

$1T sunk into Afghanistan and they got nowhere, someones pockets got lined.
 
Not sure why 'the yanks' are singled out here, we've made enough messes of our own across the world.
 
The Fear said:
Not sure why 'the yanks' are singled out here, we've made enough messes of our own across the world.
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When the yanks say jump, Britain says “how high?”

No-one is disputing the messes we’ve made but we’re talking present tense at the moment. I think we might hear reports of bad things to happen to British civilians or military in the next few days, I really hope not but the Yanks will not lose any sleep over it.
 
The Fear said:
Not sure why 'the yanks' are singled out here, we've made enough messes of our own across the world.[/QUote

Dont think they are being singled out, it is that they are the lead on this thing, and it is they who have decided the time is right to come out, meaning that the rest have to follow on.
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I have looked, I part studied it, I maintain, we've made a good few messes ourselves, and our secret services are most certainly no angels.

You have clowns in charge, you have a circus. USA, UK... same clowns, and sadly, they laugh at us, because those clowns make a fortune from the guns and bullets they sell to both sides.
 
Pangloss said:
If you look at it post WW2 there isn't a country who has made a bigger mess than the Americans, whether that's in the the Middle East or Latin America. It's not just about their armed forces but also the CIA, DEA etc.
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At face value I agree, I will say they were aided and abetted by the collapse of European colonial power. The book Small Wars in Faraway Places documents this so well.

Essentially the US succeeded the European powers, the European powers left massive messes everywhere they went. Whether is Sykes-Picot Agreement, Britain's hasty withdrawal from the Holy Land, or the mess France left in South East Asia and North Africa.

Latin America is the only place I feel that the mess is well and truly all America's own doing. At least Colombia, Peru etc. all had a long period at ruling themselves before America came along and properly destabilized them. The Middle East and Asia is a lot to do with European Powers. When you step back and look at it you could easily say that the Middle East and Europe have been in perpetual war for 2,500 years.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
At face value I agree, I will say they were aided and abetted by the collapse of European colonial power. The book Small Wars in Faraway Places documents this so well.

Essentially the US succeeded the European powers, the European powers left massive messes everywhere they went. Whether is Sykes-Picot Agreement, Britain's hasty withdrawal from the Holy Land, or the mess France left in South East Asia and North Africa.

Latin America is the only place I feel that the mess is well and truly all America's own doing. At least Colombia, Peru etc. all had a long period at ruling themselves before America came along and properly destabilized them. The Middle East and Asia is a lot to do with European Powers. When you step back and look at it you could easily say that the Middle East and Europe have been in perpetual war for 2,500 years.
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Gulf Wars 1 and 2 were primarily driven by the US and those are the most noteworthy wars in the region since WW2.

Of course Europe and 'us' have created a lot of problems but I stand by my statement, since WW2 there hasn't been a worse agent for disharmony across the world than America.
 
Reminds me of a Beautiful South song.

Your fight them on the beaches, speeches, make me despair
Cause if there's one thing we can guarantee is you will not he there
 
I don't think anyone can be definitive about whether leaving Afghanistan is the right call or not, seeing as former diplomats, soldiers, governors in Afghanistan and foreign correspondents seem to be split or on the fence themselves, but I think we can agree *how* it's been done is a disaster.

The Afghans had effectively zero warning they would be losing the tech support for their military, meaning their air power and large parts of their artillery were grounded overnight. The Taliban's strength was either catastrophically underestimated or worse hidden from us until it was too late to halt the withdrawal. And on top of this the US and our own Home Office/Foreign Office are taking as little responsibility for the Afghans who have allied with us and risked their lives for us as they can get away with. It's some shameful shit and after this who would trust us enough to ally with us in the future. Putin and Xi Jinping must have wanked themselves into comas over the last week looking on.
 
I see Patagonia have decided to boycott a ski resort where one of the owners donated to Marjorie Taylor Green.

I guess even going skiing is political now.
 
BodyButter said:
Yeah, but those pricks are always harping on about women's rights.
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Worse are the leftist "anti-Imperialists" who are so happy the US and UK are being humiliated they don't give a fuck about the rapes, child brides, forced marriages, and complete removal of women's rights.

I am one of those pricks who harps on about women's rights though, so I could be biased.
 
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