Ukraine Situation

[shotshy]

Back on topic, I read today that the Russian appointed Governor of the Kherson region is recommending evacuation because of Ukrainian advances.
So much for annexation.
It appears that the Russian troops are being kettled.
They will eventually be surrounded and have nowhere to run unless they get out quickly.
Obviously it’s not in Ukrainian interest to bombard the city so it will be attrition.

 

[PhilK66]

Back on topic, I read today that the Russian appointed Governor of the Kherson region is recommending evacuation because of Ukrainian advances.
So much for annexation.
It appears that the Russian troops are being kettled.
They will eventually be surrounded and have nowhere to run unless they get out quickly.
Obviously it’s not in Ukrainian interest to bombard the city so it will be attrition.

I really appreciate your comments above about recovering the thread from its highjacking by dogmatists. Thanks.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Shotshy, you know full well that the rampant nationalism Breckers refers to was apperent in SOME of the Brexit voters. Ludicrous to deny it.

Not really going back off subject, I was interested that when googling the dictionary definition of "nationalism", the most similar word that comes up is "patriotism".

Strange how those two words and interpreted so differently these days.

 

[MedwayModernist]

Not really going back off subject, I was interested that when googling the dictionary definition of "nationalism", the most similar word that comes up is "patriotism".

Strange how those two words and interpreted so differently these days.

Patriotism is loving your country, nationalism is believing your country can do no wrong and that others are inherently inferior.

Such a shame that the right seem to believe that if you aren't a nationalist you aren't a patriot.

 

[shotshy]

Patriotism is loving your country, nationalism is believing your country can do no wrong and that others are inherently inferior.

Such a shame that the right seem to believe that if you aren't a nationalist you aren't a patriot.

So, what about the Scottish Nationalists ?
Do you think they think that they are superior or just want to determine their own future?

 

[shotshy]

10,000 Ukrainian troops have now completed their training on Salisbury Plain and are returning to their country, fit, trained and motivated.
Many are now trained trainers to assist with training back home.
Ukraine have mobilised nearly a million soldiers so far.
It’s going to be a long and tough winter.

 

[MedwayModernist]

So, what about the Scottish Nationalists ?
Do you think they think that they are superior or just want to determine their own future?

They're called the Scottish National Party, not the Scottish Nationalist Party, despite what Boris would routinely call them during PMQs.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Patriotism is loving your country, nationalism is believing your country can do no wrong and that others are inherently inferior.

Such a shame that the right seem to believe that if you aren't a nationalist you aren't a patriot.

Actually, one of the modern dictionary definitions of nationalism is purely:
"advocacy of or support for the political independence of a particular nation or people." followed by an example "Scottish nationalism".
nationalism - Google Search

Stick with your own personal definition if you like.

 

[MedwayModernist]

Actually, one of the modern dictionary definitions of nationalism is purely:
"advocacy of or support for the political independence of a particular nation or people." followed by an example "Scottish nationalism".
nationalism - Google Search

Stick with your own personal definition if you like.

nationalist
/ˈnaʃ(ə)n(ə)lɪst/

a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
"he was a staunch nationalist during his 22 years in power"

 

[nibbles]

Really? Why?

Ps, just checked my original post for (my customary) typos and discovered it was you who could not spell 'competence' when quoting me. A small irony?
:-)

Starmer seems on a mission to convert Tory voters by offering a less shit version of the same thing. Seems too scared to stand up for anything he actually believes in instead just aiming for the most vanilla option possible.

The lack of recent support for any of the unions and treatment of those that joined picket lines is a poor show.

Re the ‘competence’ comment are you confusing me with someone else?

 

[Gills 58]

Starmer seems on a mission to convert Tory voters by offering a less shit version of the same thing. Seems too scared to stand up for anything he actually believes in instead just aiming for the most vanilla option possible.

The lack of recent support for any of the unions and treatment of those that joined picket lines is a poor show.

Re the ‘competence’ comment are you confusing me with someone else?

Have you followed politics for the last 45 years like I have?

I'm seriously leftie but have learnt (long ago) that the vast majority of the population disagree with my "radical" politics. Rather than continue to stay pure and virtuous and losing, I'm prepared for a compromise, as Starmer is, rather than allow the Tories to carry on trashing our country.

Sorry that Starmer and the recent Labour party have given up on overthrowing international capitalism. I'm sad about it too.

What do you propose Starmer should put forward as Labour policy without losing again or being undermined and ruined by the international capital markets?

Serious question btw.

I actually supported virtually all of Corbyn's policies (although I thought the bloke himself couldn't run a bath, let alone a country).

Let's keep on losing and feel good about ourselves shall we. As it happens, I'm wealthy enough to ride out the storm. I'm worried about the other 90% of the population.

Re the picket lines, I was NUT rep at my school for years and it never occured to me that any Labour shadowcabinet memeber should join me on a picket line
If any one did they would be obliged to join every union picket line including when they were in Government. Doh! Give your head a wobble.

Ps. I quit the Labour party over Blair being too right wing and only rejoined when Give (and his sidekick Cummings) came in at Education.

 

[nibbles]

Have you followed politics for the last 45 years like I have?

I'm seriously leftie but have learnt (long ago) that the vast majority of the population disagree with my "radical" politics. Rather than continue to stay pure and virtuous and losing, I'm prepared for a compromise, as Starmer is, rather than allow the Tories to carry on trashing our country.

Sorry that Starmer and the recent Labour party have given up on overthrowing international capitalism. I'm sad about it too.

What do you propose Starmer should put forward as Labour policy without losing again or being undermined and ruined by the international capital markets?

Serious question btw.

I actually supported virtually all of Corbyn's policies (although I thought the bloke himself couldn't run a bath, let alone a country).

Let's keep on losing and feel good about ourselves shall we. As it happens, I'm wealthy enough to ride out the storm. I'm worried about the other 90% of the population.

Re the picket lines, I was NUT rep at my school for years and it never occured to me that any Labour shadowcabinet memeber should join me on a picket line
If any one did they would be obliged to join every union picket line including when they were in Government. Doh! Give your head a wobble.

Ps. I quit the Labour party over Blair being too right wing and only rejoined when Give (and his sidekick Cummings) came in at Education.

Woah, bit heavy on the accelerator there, 58.

Supporting workers in gaining a fair deal needn’t mean joining a picket line but the silence has been deafening and treatment of those who did truely out of order.

Starmer’s arse must be full of splinters, the bloke’s paralysed from the fear of upsetting any potential voters.

 

[shotshy]

Have you followed politics for the last 45 years like I have?

I'm seriously leftie but have learnt (long ago) that the vast majority of the population disagree with my "radical" politics. Rather than continue to stay pure and virtuous and losing, I'm prepared for a compromise, as Starmer is, rather than allow the Tories to carry on trashing our country.

Sorry that Starmer and the recent Labour party have given up on overthrowing international capitalism. I'm sad about it too.

What do you propose Starmer should put forward as Labour policy without losing again or being undermined and ruined by the international capital markets?

Serious question btw.

I actually supported virtually all of Corbyn's policies (although I thought the bloke himself couldn't run a bath, let alone a country).

Let's keep on losing and feel good about ourselves shall we. As it happens, I'm wealthy enough to ride out the storm. I'm worried about the other 90% of the population.

Re the picket lines, I was NUT rep at my school for years and it never occured to me that any Labour shadowcabinet memeber should join me on a picket line
If any one did they would be obliged to join every union picket line including when they were in Government. Doh! Give your head a wobble.

Ps. I quit the Labour party over Blair being too right wing and only rejoined when Give (and his sidekick Cummings) came in at Education.

The evidence shows that the moderate middle ground wins the day.
I’d also prefer a bit more radical but winning the election is more important than ideology.
In opposition, is irrelevant.

 

[shotshy]

Woah, bit heavy on the accelerator there, 58.

Supporting workers in gaining a fair deal needn’t mean joining a picket line but the silence has been deafening and treatment of those who did truely out of order.

Starmer’s arse must be full of splinters, the bloke’s paralysed from the fear of upsetting any potential voters.

Of course his arse is full of splinters.
He’d sell it for the chance to win power and actually do instead of speaking.

 

[Vambogills]

Putin making noises about easing back on deadly civilian strikes. Does this mean the rumours about missile stocks running low are true? Is this the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?
Fingers crossed that those few moderates around Putin can pull off an unlikely face saving resolution, including withdrawl of occupied lands of course.

 

[Gills 58]

Woah, bit heavy on the accelerator there, 58.

Supporting workers in gaining a fair deal needn’t mean joining a picket line but the silence has been deafening and treatment of those who did truely out of order.

Starmer’s arse must be full of splinters, the bloke’s paralysed from the fear of upsetting any potential voters.

Probably cos, like me, he's sick and tired of losing. Should be clever like the Tories, get in and shift to the left as the Tories did to the right (unlike Blair).

Re picket lines, Tarry was censured for going on tv as a shadow spokespeson and not giving official party policy. He was sucking up to the unions for a job as he knew he was due to be deselected (as he was by a wide margin apparently). As far as I'm aware, and I stand to be corrected, nobody has been punished for being on a.picket line.

I've explained why it would be unwise to go on picket lines as a shadow cabinet memeber already.

Can you name any other Labour MP 'treated badly' as a result of being on a picket line?
Seems like you've been taken in by the righp wing press/media on that one.

If Labour put forward the leftie policies I'd want we'd struggle to win even against this shitshow, so I'm fully behind Starmer's approach. Labour win and show some bottle in power and not do a "Blair'.

As it hapoens, even Blair did a lot of good things compared to the shite we've had these last 12 years.

Ps. Glad to see your post got a "like " from 3x6 so I assume I'm right.
;-)

 

[nibbles]

The evidence shows that the moderate middle ground wins the day.
I’d also prefer a bit more radical but winning the election is more important than ideology.
In opposition, is irrelevant.

This is the hope I’m clinging to, that we’ll actually see what the man is made of if he gets in power and that what he is made of is worth having. His lack of any leadership whatsoever makes me seriously doubt he is worth having.

 

[PuB]

Putin making noises about easing back on deadly civilian strikes. Does this mean the rumours about missile stocks running low are true? Is this the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?
Fingers crossed that those few moderates around Putin can pull off an unlikely face saving resolution, including withdrawl of occupied lands of course.

It does make you wonder if they’re running out of arms doesn’t it. If they’re using what they have left to indiscriminately strike towns and cities across the whole of Ukraine, it wouldn’t seem the best tactic.

I don’t think they’ll go full on Nuke when they leave, but I do think they’ll be more than happy to fuck up a few nuclear power stations on their way out.

 

[Gills 58]

This is the hope I’m clinging to, that we’ll actually see what the man is made of if he gets in power and that what he is made of is worth having. His lack of any leadership whatsoever makes me seriously doubt he is worth having.

"Lack of leadership"? Lol. The bloke took over a total shitshow and had to be mega 'moderate' to cleanse rhe party of the toxic Corbyn "leadership". Easy to gob off to please his own hard core supporters, as Corbyn did. Problem is the other 50 million voters.

I lived through fhe same when Michael Foot was leader. Lovely bloke, great policies, totally deluded loser when it came to convincing most of the population, sadly.

Ps. I'll persue this on the post Brexit thread in future.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Putin making noises about easing back on deadly civilian strikes. Does this mean the rumours about missile stocks running low are true? Is this the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?
Fingers crossed that those few moderates around Putin can pull off an unlikely face saving resolution, including withdrawl of occupied lands of course.

You say "making noises" so I presume he has not included that in any speech?

I thought he was still claiming that he had never been aiming at civilian targets. Yeh, right.