Ukraine Situation | Page 57 | Vital Football

Ukraine Situation

I believe Zelensky when he said that the war started in Crimea and will end in Crimea.
I think that eventually, Russia will be thrown out of all Ukrainian territory.
Putin over reached.
He could have kept Crimea as it’s strategically important, but he couldn’t resist pushing.
It’s now over for Putin.
It’s just a matter of time.
He’s in a corner.
His threat of nuclear won’t happen because those around him are hopefully not suicidal.
The response from Nato would be off the scale if they went down that route.
As Ukraine push forward, Russia will find it impossible to hold what they have taken.
I think that Ukraine will bypass Kherson and push straight to Crimea.
 
shotshy said:
I believe Zelensky when he said that the war started in Crimea and will end in Crimea.
I think that eventually, Russia will be thrown out of all Ukrainian territory.
Putin over reached.
He could have kept Crimea as it’s strategically important, but he couldn’t resist pushing.
It’s now over for Putin.
It’s just a matter of time.
He’s in a corner.
His threat of nuclear won’t happen because those around him are hopefully not suicidal.
The response from Nato would be off the scale if they went down that route.
As Ukraine push forward, Russia will find it impossible to hold what they have taken.
I think that Ukraine will bypass Kherson and push straight to Crimea.
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I dare say there`s a whole load of backchanneling behind the scenes and Russia`s Mr Putin has been left in no doubt (by the U.S.A.) as to the consequences of it launching nuclear strikes against Ukraine. Having said that, there has probably been similar backchanneling between Russia and China relating to logistics and supply.

Geopolitically, does China stand to benefit from the conflict and potential escalation of war in Ukraine ? I don`t know (I bow to Jokerman`s take on that) If they don`t, and that`s my guess, then perhaps China, through it`s own back channels with Russia, is strong enough to gain the ear of a Russian dictator and influential enough to weave a resolution to the conflict ? The world cannot afford (literally) for the war to go on indefinitely. We all know the Chinese are clever - and it will require some clever politics to engineer political climb down that`s mutually acceptable.

Domestically, the UK`s leadership is all over the shop at present. Sometimes it`s too easy to be complacent about just how Scary the real World has become.
 
Chinese diplomacy in the open is bland, feeble, and leans slightly towards Russia -along the lines of, they were provoked but we stand for territorial integrity and no hitting. It’s completely at odds with their claim to be the new, responsible great power. Behind the scenes is harder to say. My guess is that they are torn between anger that Putin has put so much at risk (throwing Taiwan into doubt eg) and interest in the opportunity he has given them to build non-US dominated trading and financing international networks. Bottom line for Xi, as a strong man who gets things done (so far), is that he sees himself in a results-oriented business and his new BFF is not getting results. People’s and peoples’ understandable admiration for strong men who get things done tends to tail off in the face of a relatively few bad results.
 
I’ll chance my arm and suggest we may be just past peak crisis. The Russians are walking back nuclear talk. Thirty or so kids have been sent back to Ukraine. The US is making noises about a Biden/Putin chat at the G 20 next month. Putin says the gas pipeline is open and available. The glances across the ballroom floor have begun. Miles to go on substance and events can upset things in a moment, but they’re all thinking wouldn’t it be nice to find a way out of this.
 
I think that it's worth bearing in mind, that Putin only spoke about defending Russian territory in his annexation speech ("“We will defend our land with all the powers and means at our disposal.”); when he actually mentioned nuclear weapons it was in reference to the US - "The United States is the only country in the world that has twice used nuclear weapons, destroying the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and setting a precedent.” & it is also worth noting that both Poland & the Ukraine have been demanding that the US "share" nuclear weapons with them .... ( & Liz Truss has already said that she was ready to push the button)...
 
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Looks like she has already pushed the nuclear button re the country's finances. Now saying she's not going to cut public expenditure, how does that work?
 
Gilles Lingam said:
I think that it's worth bearing in mind, that Putin only spoke about defending Russian territory in his annexation speech ("“We will defend our land with all the powers and means at our disposal.”); when he actually mentioned nuclear weapons it was in reference to the US - "The United States is the only country in the world that has twice used nuclear weapons, destroying the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and setting a precedent.” & it is also worth noting that both Poland & the Ukraine have been demanding that the US "share" nuclear weapons with them .... ( & Liz Truss has already said that she was ready to push the button)...
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I think Russian nuclear doctrine claims the intention to launch on warning when nucs or other wmd threaten the territory/survival of the Russian state. Assuming doctrine matters at all -I’m doubtful- the $64 million dollar question is what falls under the umbrella of being Russian territory. It seems to be anything Putin says at the moment. Of course, he has been blathering since he attacked Ukraine about all means at his disposal, “this is not a bluff,” putting his nuclear weapons on “special combat readiness” and the like. This is probably a bluff and is intended to allow him to bomb and blast Ukrainian cities and people without Russian cities and people being hit in return. Putin’s use of nuclear deterrence in this regard has worked so far. The US used nuclear weapons three quarters of a century ago. Today they are in a position to devastate Russia’s forces without them. Russia, on the other hand, seems to be rapidly running out of rockets, bombs, tanks, and soldiers. Putin is the one making the nuclear threats, and the one most likely to succumb to the nuclear temptation in an attempt to rescue his failed aggression.
 
RotherhitheGill said:
Looks like she has already pushed the nuclear button re the country's finances. Now saying she's not going to cut public expenditure, how does that work?
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Easy. Same as Johnson. Apparently you can level up and cut taxes at the same time.

To think that Labour used to be criticised for fantasy policies.

I'm hearing financiers across the world ripping into our government. According to one, we are regarded as a basket case like Italy but without the nice food and sunshine.

This is such a shitshow I'd rather the government showed some competence even if it meant my Labour party were less likely to win the next election.

Ps, Don't know how we ended up on this thread Rotherhithe.
:-)
 
Gills 58 said:
Easy. Same as Johnson. Apparently you can level up and cut taxes at the same time.

To think that Labour used to be criticised for fantasy policies.

I'm hearing financiers across the world ripping into our government. According to one, we are regarded as a basket case like Italy but without the nice food and sunshine.

This is such a shitshow I'd rather the government showed some competence even if it meant my Labour party were less likely to win the next election.

Ps, Don't know how we ended up on this thread Rotherhithe.
:-)
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I saw that interview too, 58.
I particularly liked her response to the question “what do you think of JRMs claim that the fiscal event had nothing to do with the pound tanking. It was due to interest rates and media stoking the fire”

“With respect, that’s bollocks” was the reply.
 
nibbles said:
Unfortunately the Labour Party exists in name only now.
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If you are referring to the Labour Party as personified by Corbyn, you are quite right and thank goodness for it. 1930s style attritional class based politics is entirely redundant. Society is much more fractured and complex than when armies of cloth capped workers left the factory gates and anyway, as anyone who has done political canvassing knows, there has always been a hardcore of 'ordinary' voters who are prone to the worst of racist and bigoted views.
WC support for the likes of Mosley and Powell was significant as is Brexit enthusiasm.
There is no doubt Britain is still weighed down by a deference to our alleged 'betters', where the school you went to is more important than the ability you possess, where ludicrous antiquities such as an unelected upper chamber, the routinely abused honours list and genuflection to the Oxbridge in-crowd prevent us from becoming a properly functioning meritocracy.
Labour's job is to help deliver a society which recognises opportunity for all, care for the needy and a proper prioritisation of healthcare, education , transport and utilities.
Moth eaten Marxism and historic dogma won't do it.
 
Breckland said:
If you are referring to the Labour Party as personified by Corbyn, you are quite right and thank goodness for it. 1930s style attritional class based politics is entirely redundant. Society is much more fractured and complex than when armies of cloth capped workers left the factory gates and anyway, as anyone who has done political canvassing knows, there has always been a hardcore of 'ordinary' voters who are prone to the worst of racist and bigoted views.
WC support for the likes of Mosley and Powell was significant as is Brexit enthusiasm.
There is no doubt Britain is still weighed down by a deference to our alleged 'betters', where the school you went to is more important than the ability you possess, where ludicrous antiquities such as an unelected upper chamber, the routinely abused honours list and genuflection to the Oxbridge in-crowd prevent us from becoming a properly functioning meritocracy.
Labour's job is to help deliver a society which recognises opportunity for all, care for the needy and a proper prioritisation of healthcare, education , transport and utilities.
Moth eaten Marxism and historic dogma won't do it.
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Wow !
Equating Mosley’s Facist Party to the U.K. democratically voting to leave the European Union ?
That’s some stretch 😂
All major political parties campaign to remain in the EU and the ‘people’ reject that notion is actually what happened.
That’s democracy in action.
If you want to look for a bit of facism and racism, have a cheeky peek at the construct of the European Parliament.
You want find many black faces there.
About 3% non white last time I checked.
Ironically, the Brexit Party had the highest number of non white Meps, before we left.
 
Breckland said:
If you are referring to the Labour Party as personified by Corbyn, you are quite right and thank goodness for it. 1930s style attritional class based politics is entirely redundant. Society is much more fractured and complex than when armies of cloth capped workers left the factory gates and anyway, as anyone who has done political canvassing knows, there has always been a hardcore of 'ordinary' voters who are prone to the worst of racist and bigoted views.
WC support for the likes of Mosley and Powell was significant as is Brexit enthusiasm.
There is no doubt Britain is still weighed down by a deference to our alleged 'betters', where the school you went to is more important than the ability you possess, where ludicrous antiquities such as an unelected upper chamber, the routinely abused honours list and genuflection to the Oxbridge in-crowd prevent us from becoming a properly functioning meritocracy.
Labour's job is to help deliver a society which recognises opportunity for all, care for the needy and a proper prioritisation of healthcare, education , transport and utilities.
Moth eaten Marxism and historic dogma won't do it.
Click to expand...
Excellent
 
shotshy said:
Wow !
Equating Mosley’s Facist Party to the U.K. democratically voting to leave the European Union ?
That’s some stretch 😂
All major political parties campaign to remain in the EU and the ‘people’ reject that notion is actually what happened.
That’s democracy in action.
If you want to look for a bit of facism and racism, have a cheeky peek at the construct of the European Parliament.
You want find many black faces there.
About 3% non white last time I checked.
Ironically, the Brexit Party had the highest number of non white Meps, before we left.
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If you take out the Brexit reference, what do you think of the rest of that post?

Obvioisly some Brexit "enthusiasts" are deeply racist, unfortunately I know some. Of course, one can be pro Brexit and not racist (eg 'Lexiters').
 
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