Toure's Tics vs the Blades | Page 5 | Vital Football

Toure's Tics vs the Blades

hindleymonwafc said:
I think what we are seeing is those not pleased with Leams sacking trotting out their pre-written scripts .
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Not sure that's right H ... I see some who were moaning before carrying on with their "expect us to top o' t' league" outlook.

There were optimistic signs under Richardson (maybe not enough, but some), and possibly a few more last night. Fans/posters have to be prepared to look for em.though.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
Sheff United are a great team so a crap team playing crap could have beat them...take the blinkers off mate we weren't crap. 64% possession most of it on the floor is proof. Our end product isn't good enough but that wasn't crap.
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I'm actually reading this as positive by MiW.

He's responding (I think) to the comments from others that we were crap by saying that if not for the referee, we could have won that game.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
You are 100% correct...if you think we had the same success rate with our own throw ins as under Leam or that we played the same hoof ball then yes, you certainly didn't watch the same match I did last night.

Everyone was showing and asking instead of hiding and ofcourse we have a few not upto this level and we also played a side with some Premier league standard players but at times in the 2nd half we footballed them off the park and not a 70 yard hoof in sight.

More on the grass stuff was played than in 10 matches under Leam.

And that is why now I have some hope for this season whereas I had none under the previous manager.
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You may well be right with the 'more on the grass stuff'.......but the basic mistakes were still there
Throw ins.....abysmal
Corners......not beating first man
Free kicks in the opposition half....piss poor
Defence at set pieces......shakey at best

We'll see where we are come the end of the festivities but I'm not hopeful if the likes of MP, JM & TD are still the first few names on the team sheet.
 
Made in Wigan said:
It was crap. If you think that was good you are easily pleased. Defensively it’s was like watching the worst of the Martinez era by constantly giving the ball away and putting ourselves under pressure. If not for some poor finishing from the blades it would have been an embarrassment by half time on national tv.
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Hmmmm ... Maybe I read your other post wrongly!

This seems an about turn, ..... Have you forgotten about the appalling refereeing decisions.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
I think what we are seeing is those not pleased with Leams sacking trotting out their pre-written scripts .
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I was one of those not pleased with LR's sacking but my scripts are certainly not pre- written & neither am I hoping that at the end of the season I can say 'oh look I was right we shud have kept him. Despite my thots on getting rid of LR, I am 100% behind KT & hope he can turn it around....yes there were some small green shoots of improvement but I'd have thot the basics like defending set pieces / corners would have been worked on alongside our throw ins / corners / set pieces.....no changes there that I could see last night.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
I think what we are seeing is those not pleased with Leams sacking trotting out their pre-written scripts .
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I was one of those not pleased with LR's sacking but my scripts are certainly not pre- written & neither am I hoping that at the end of the season I can say 'oh look I was right we shud have kept him. Despite my thots on getting rid of LR, I am 100% behind KT & hope he can turn it around....yes there were some small green shoots of improvement but I'd have thot the basics like defending set pieces / corners would have been worked on alongside our throw ins / corners / set pieces.....no changes there that I could see last night.
 
Considering the run Sheffield were on and the fact they have some very good players for this level I’m optimistic for the rest of the season. The Senegalese striker is the best player I have seen in the Championship this season and Sander Berge is constantly being linked with Prem clubs. Yes we could have been a few down but look at our two full backs who were a joke and the fact we finished the game with two centre halves who most of us would have put as back up at the start of the season, we deserve credit for the way we finished the game. I think if we start at Boro with two different full backs, Cousins back in midfield and Aasgard and possibly Shinnie in for Max then we can say the manager is on the right track. I thought Edmonds-Green looked more comfortable as the game went on so I’ll be interested to see how he gets on with a run of games. I’m not Jones’s biggest fan but he has performed with credit over the last few weeks so fair play to him - better saving with his feet than getting down low to shots though. Having said that I think we need to make signing a decent keeper a priority in January. I’m hoping Toure might be able to call in a few favours because with the right additions we could fly up the table (famous last words 🤞)
 
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king_dezeeuw06 said:
We lost but I thought we were unlucky not to get a point and certainly didnt deserve to lose on balance of play. I also came away proud of the performance, optimistic about our future and more entertained than I've felt from any other home game in quite a long time.

Sheffield United are 2nd in the league have an expensive and talent squad (20m McBunnie sitting on the bench!) so it was always going to be a tough test as we transition from hoof and hope to pass and move but I think we overall competed very well.

We started brightly, ended strongly and were all over them for spells off the game. Like against Millwall we had a lot more movement, composure and a coherant method of play than we'd seen earlier in the year. Our throws were miles better, we played a high back line, more in between the lines and rarely blindly pumped it 70 yards to the strikers head. The starting 11 did find it hard getting the ball to the more attacking players at times but that got better after we made changes.

But Sheffield had a lot of pace, were fast on the transition and pressed us high to try and force us into mistakes - and that worked for them. We were also guilty of too many unforced errors. They were clearly superior to the vast majority of sides we've seen this season but I think the only thing that really separated us was our individual mistakes that they capitalised on. We were probably quite lucky they didn't score more goals from our mistakes, particularly in the first half. But if you take out our suicidal moments we restricted them to very little and caused them a fair few problems ourselves.

We all know that these players haven't been asked to try and play much passing football for the last 18 months and Toure wants to play pass and move so there was always going to be some mistakes as we adapt and transition. But unfortunately there were a lot of mistakes from players giving the ball away in dangerous areas and it seemed Sheff United's attacks were all a direct result of our errors. I don't think the issue was Toure asking too much of players or expecting them to take excessive risks I think it was just down to individual players making bad decisions. Frustratingly that cost us today but it's the learning curve we have to go through due to the huge step up we have to make from where we were to where we want to go. This is the type of stuff pre season is generally for but unfortunately we are making these mistakes in real games as we haven't got any practice ones. But I'm confident that it will get better with more time on the training pitch and as Toure works out who isn't up to it and needs replacing. I think he probablu worked out a few of those tonight.

I think it's reasonable to assume Toure has initially taken a lot of advice on team selection from Kelly in these first couple of weeks. But I think you could see from his subs that he is already starting to work out who is and isn't good enough and I think the team that we had in towards the end of the game is probably getting closer to our strongest side.

Toure was going mad on the touchline at some of the mistakes and at the final whistle the frustration from our lads was blatent. Considering we are second bottom and they are second top a narrow valiant defeat is a good showing but it seemed like we were gutted with that which I think it indicates the expectation and ambition of the players is higher than it was. It was nice to see earlier subs, taking off the weaker players and us using our full allocation as that previously wasn't the case. Overall I'd say it's clear what we are trying to do, it's a big improvement but still far from the finished article. It's very encouraging signs in a short space of time with Toure on the training ground. Today reminded me a bit of last season in reverse we had a good method of play but some poor players struggling, instead of having a poor method of play but having players good enough to get results despite it.


Individually:

Jones - thought he had another good game made 1 important save in first half, some good quick throws outs which was new and better goal kicks.

Darikwa - had a couple of good moments but too many mistakes, including gifting them their second goal. He's not been great all season but last 2 games where he's been asked to play more passes he's looked a liability. I'd have had him off at half time as he looked like an accident waiting to happen, but now Nyambe is fit he probably shouldn't play again.

Whatmough - big fan of Whatmough but his big weakness is losing his man on set pieces. Egan is always a huge threat frim set pieces and he never got tight and allowed him to easily get away from him for a free header. He did well other than that prior to going off injured but you just can't give free headers so easily and not get punished.

Tilt - defended well for the majority of the game but had a couple of mad moments that he got away with mistakes. Talked himself into a needless booking and seemed to be on the edge for the rest of the game - he loves to shithouse but I think sometimes he pushes it a bit too far.

Bennett - thought he was really poor caught in posession that lead to the corner they scored from and too many other mistakes. He's had a good career but age and injuries have caught up and he's just not a Championship player anymore. I'd have had him off at half time and shouldn't play again unless we have an injury crisis.

Power - I felt he'd be a player who'd benefit a lot from Toure's change to a passing style but I think he's underwhelmed in last 2 games. He's just not done enough for me and his main attribute of crossing has been poor. It's probably time Shinnie was given a chance in Max's place.

Naylor - pretty solid first half, won some great tackles but guilty like others of some sloppy passes.

McClean - all the goal kicks were aimed at him on the left rather than the striker and he did well winning headers from goal kicks (suprised Richardson never did that). He never let's you down for effort but offered very little threat in open play on the wing and his set pieces weren't that great. He was better at left back and put in a decent cross on the overlapp but like others had some bad passes he got away with.

Lang - thought he was great, best he's looked all season. I thought he went down to try and get their full back a second yellow when he could've been through but other that that looked a huge threat when we could get him the ball. Probably needed more support from the full back a few times that he didn't get to open them up even more.

Keane - I think that's possibly the best he's played all calendar year - sat in the big space in the middle of the pitch we so often left vacant under Richardson and linked things together nicely. Just need to get him the ball more.

Broadhead - he's clearly not a lone striker and he wasn't given much service but when we do get him on the ball you can see he has real quality - need him in midfield where we can get him more involved. His goal probably should've been given offside but has the knack for finding himself in the right place at the right time for the tap in.

Edmonds-Green - did ok, had some good and bad moments thought he probably got caught out a little on his positioning for the second goal. I think it's obvious he was 4th choice CB compared to the 3 in front of him.

Cousins - thought he was excellent and added more passing and composure in midfield compared to Naylor who he replaced. Should start next week.

Nyambe - a huge step up from Darikwa defensively, we know he's not a natural at going forward but had a good go at joining attacks.

Aasgaard - provided some much needed threat from left wing, held the ball well to feed McClean for the overlap leading to the goal. Looked like he was going to score himself but for a block that looked hand ball in real time. Hopefully he'll start next game, far more effective on the wing than McClean.

Fletcher - wasn't on that long to make a big impact but made a good impression. Could've scored an equaliser If he wasn't pulled back, should've hada penalty and got their defender sent off but ref and linesman missed it. Delighted to see him on the bench ahead of Magennis, he's a much better option to bring on.
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Thanks KDZ, you have saved me a lot of effort, your summation of the game is precisely what I was thinking myself.

Great minds eh!!! (y)
 
First half was shocking Lady Luck on our side. Only one nil down half time second half we had a go nothing to lose. Only good thing last night he must have found out. That clearly the full backs. Are no good. And that includes the one who came on at half time. But the problem we have. Who and how many can he bring in and how many can he get shut of. Only one I can see going out is Edwards Might want a few more out but will they go. Three centre forward on the books and not one good enough.
 
jocklatic said:
You may well be right with the 'more on the grass stuff'.......but the basic mistakes were still there
Throw ins.....abysmal
Corners......not beating first man
Free kicks in the opposition half....piss poor
Defence at set pieces......shakey at best

We'll see where we are come the end of the festivities but I'm not hopeful if the likes of MP, JM & TD are still the first few names on the team sheet.
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You're probably right mate regarding corners and free kicks mate but thought throw ins infinity better. Difference to me was last night ball was thrown back in immediately with I suspect Will being tasked with receiving but others asking. Before it was ball in hand for 30 seconds with no fucker offering so just toss it to the opposition. I actually enjoyed seeing us play football and match a damn side...how weird of me.
 
Ooooooo to Be a Wiganer said:
First half was shocking Lady Luck on our side. Only one nil down half time second half we had a go nothing to lose. Only good thing last night he must have found out. That clearly the full backs. Are no good. And that includes the one who came on at half time. But the problem we have. Who and how many can he bring in and how many can he get shut of. Only one I can see going out is Edwards Might want a few more out but will they go. Three centre forward on the books and not one good enough.
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Apparently Edwards and Magennis were seen in Nando's pre-match which sort of gives me the impression that they are on the way out.

By the way, which full back are you referring to that came on at half time. The only substitution I saw was Cousins for Naylor, which at the time I thought was a strange decision as, in my opinion, Naylor was much more influential in the game than Power but the switch worked. Cousins looked far more confident in this style of play and allowed Power to get into the game more.

You are right that we rode our luck in the first half and pressed the self destruct for both goals, but the change in style and the determination to play the ball on the deck for large periods gives me hope that with time the mistakes will disappear as the confidence rises.

Hopefully, with the introduction of some new blood and the possible recall of the loaned players we could be seeing the start of a team that wants to play a blend of football we haven't seen at the DW for a few years.

I doubt that we will see the changes happen overnight, and am fearful for the next two games that we will see little or no return points wise. I am also hopeful that this is the start of the revolution that will see us climb to safety over the second half of the season under the guidance of Kolo Toure and his staff.
 
Made in Wigan said:
It was crap. If you think that was good you are easily pleased. Defensively it’s was like watching the worst of the Martinez era by constantly giving the ball away and putting ourselves under pressure. If not for some poor finishing from the blades it would have been an embarrassment by half time on national tv.
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By half time? I must have missed all the guilt edge chances they had in the first half
 
Frank Bullitt said:
Wrong! Not many were saying they weren't happy with Leams sacking people were voicing an opinion on the appointment of an inexperienced manager and coaching staff, all those that were excited by the appointment have suddenly gone quiet.

Take last night for instance, no new manager bounce in the stadium, no enthusiasm from the fans that bothered to turn up, obviously Rob Kelly still pulling the strings with team selections.

Fingers crossed a few lower league clubs are desperate for players come January and will be prepared to take a few of the dead legs off our hands that's providing there are funds available for players at our end.
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£29 a ticket, on TV and a week before Christmas. A very poorly attended and quiet away end considering the league position also. In regards to the lower league club comment, maybe so but at least now we have someone who will attract players and not have to go to Scotland or Lincoln for them not to be seen.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
I'm not easily pleased believe me. To some extent the result was irrelevant...it's the intent and attempt to play football that pleased me. If you can't see any difference then its pointless having any conversation as your shutters are already up.
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I saw a difference. Predominantly the risk taking in defence and we got punished for it. Up front we created very little as usual. Either hit long or played along the floor it was the same outcome. We need to put points on the board and didn’t. This risk taking I fear will create more problems than it solves. We improved the more changes we made, which I admit tells its own story.

moonay said:
Hmmmm ... Maybe I read your other post wrongly!

This seems an about turn, ..... Have you forgotten about the appalling refereeing decisions.
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I’ve not forgotten. Simple decisions he got wrong. Inexcusable at this level. Regardless of his incompetence it had no effect on our poor defending, though we may not have been punished for it if they had been reduced in numbers. We just don’t have the quality of players to play in this fashion at this level, so personally I’d rather we were more pragmatic until we do. As I said before he was appointed, he has no experience of what’s needed in a relegation battle and no experience of playing/working with this standard of player and it showed last night. Hopefully he can learn quickly.
 
I think some posters have unrealistic expectations of what Toure could do in 2 weeks with what he inherited.

Look at to the negative, out of date hoof and hope style we were previously playing. It was churning out gutless performances and loses in 6 pointers losing to poor teams in rotten form, without managers, injury ravaged like Reading, Cardiff, Hull, Boro, Stoke, etc. Our home record was horrendous, our style was not entertaining or effective. There was absolutely no chance of success playing like that but there was no sign of improving or learning. It was pretty much identical in style and results to Joyce.

In the last 2 we played a play off contender and likely automatic promotion team and gave them both a good game and could've potentially won both playing much better football if it wasn't for our own mistakes.

We aren't anywhere approaching the finished product yet and some of the players who aren't good enough to play this style are being found out and will fall out of the side in the upcoming weeks. Unfortunately we blew so many of our easier games in the run before Toure arrived, but if Toure had those fixtures rather than the tougher fixture I think we'd have probably won most of them.

I said i personally wouldn't have taken the risk of appointing any first time manager when we were looking at candidates - but I've been greatly encouraged by what I've seen so far. In just 2 weeks I feel like we've seen more progress in our method of play than we saw in months from Richardson and given a little time I think we'll improve a lot more. I'm far more optimistic than I was of staying up.

It's far too early to really judge either way but personally I'm feeling like Toure has made a good first impression.
 
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