January is literally the only thing keeping me just slightly hopeful that we can stay up. KT will have contacts, the sort of contacts Leam could only dream of having. We need proven quality loanees whether they are young or experienced, who can come in, start games immediately and make an instant impact ala Balogun. Otherwise we'll go down no matter how much more pleasing we are to watch.
Toure's Tics vs the Blades
- Thread starter OnLoanfromEnfield
- Start date
jeffs right
Vital Football Hero
But we are not even more pleasing to watch either.
jeffs right
Vital Football Hero
It felt the same or at times worse.
Ooooooo to Be a Wiganer
Vital 1st Team Regular
We all know what’s needed. But how do we create space to bring players in that’s the problem
SwindonLatic
Vital 1st Team Regular
Darikwa is in no way potent for us in attack, his balls into the box are some of the worst I have seen from a Latics player. He has done a great job for us through all the turmoil but his time is now up. We can’t afford to carry passengers or we WILL go down no question about it. I’m sure the new manager has a good idea now of where to strengthen and who he can rely on
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
We lost but I thought we were unlucky not to get a point and certainly didnt deserve to lose on balance of play. I also came away proud of the performance, optimistic about our future and more entertained than I've felt from any other home game in quite a long time.
Sheffield United are 2nd in the league have an expensive and talent squad (20m McBunnie sitting on the bench!) so it was always going to be a tough test as we transition from hoof and hope to pass and move but I think we overall competed very well.
We started brightly, ended strongly and were all over them for spells off the game. Like against Millwall we had a lot more movement, composure and a coherant method of play than we'd seen earlier in the year. Our throws were miles better, we played a high back line, more in between the lines and rarely blindly pumped it 70 yards to the strikers head. The starting 11 did find it hard getting the ball to the more attacking players at times but that got better after we made changes.
But Sheffield had a lot of pace, were fast on the transition and pressed us high to try and force us into mistakes - and that worked for them. We were also guilty of too many unforced errors. They were clearly superior to the vast majority of sides we've seen this season but I think the only thing that really separated us was our individual mistakes that they capitalised on. We were probably quite lucky they didn't score more goals from our mistakes, particularly in the first half. But if you take out our suicidal moments we restricted them to very little and caused them a fair few problems ourselves.
We all know that these players haven't been asked to try and play much passing football for the last 18 months and Toure wants to play pass and move so there was always going to be some mistakes as we adapt and transition. But unfortunately there were a lot of mistakes from players giving the ball away in dangerous areas and it seemed Sheff United's attacks were all a direct result of our errors. I don't think the issue was Toure asking too much of players or expecting them to take excessive risks I think it was just down to individual players making bad decisions. Frustratingly that cost us today but it's the learning curve we have to go through due to the huge step up we have to make from where we were to where we want to go. This is the type of stuff pre season is generally for but unfortunately we are making these mistakes in real games as we haven't got any practice ones. But I'm confident that it will get better with more time on the training pitch and as Toure works out who isn't up to it and needs replacing. I think he probablu worked out a few of those tonight.
I think it's reasonable to assume Toure has initially taken a lot of advice on team selection from Kelly in these first couple of weeks. But I think you could see from his subs that he is already starting to work out who is and isn't good enough and I think the team that we had in towards the end of the game is probably getting closer to our strongest side.
Toure was going mad on the touchline at some of the mistakes and at the final whistle the frustration from our lads was blatent. Considering we are second bottom and they are second top a narrow valiant defeat is a good showing but it seemed like we were gutted with that which I think it indicates the expectation and ambition of the players is higher than it was. It was nice to see earlier subs, taking off the weaker players and us using our full allocation as that previously wasn't the case. Overall I'd say it's clear what we are trying to do, it's a big improvement but still far from the finished article. It's very encouraging signs in a short space of time with Toure on the training ground. Today reminded me a bit of last season in reverse we had a good method of play but some poor players struggling, instead of having a poor method of play but having players good enough to get results despite it.
Individually:
Jones - thought he had another good game made 1 important save in first half, some good quick throws outs which was new and better goal kicks.
Darikwa - had a couple of good moments but too many mistakes, including gifting them their second goal. He's not been great all season but last 2 games where he's been asked to play more passes he's looked a liability. I'd have had him off at half time as he looked like an accident waiting to happen, but now Nyambe is fit he probably shouldn't play again.
Whatmough - big fan of Whatmough but his big weakness is losing his man on set pieces. Egan is always a huge threat frim set pieces and he never got tight and allowed him to easily get away from him for a free header. He did well other than that prior to going off injured but you just can't give free headers so easily and not get punished.
Tilt - defended well for the majority of the game but had a couple of mad moments that he got away with mistakes. Talked himself into a needless booking and seemed to be on the edge for the rest of the game - he loves to shithouse but I think sometimes he pushes it a bit too far.
Bennett - thought he was really poor caught in posession that lead to the corner they scored from and too many other mistakes. He's had a good career but age and injuries have caught up and he's just not a Championship player anymore. I'd have had him off at half time and shouldn't play again unless we have an injury crisis.
Power - I felt he'd be a player who'd benefit a lot from Toure's change to a passing style but I think he's underwhelmed in last 2 games. He's just not done enough for me and his main attribute of crossing has been poor. It's probably time Shinnie was given a chance in Max's place.
Naylor - pretty solid first half, won some great tackles but guilty like others of some sloppy passes.
McClean - all the goal kicks were aimed at him on the left rather than the striker and he did well winning headers from goal kicks (suprised Richardson never did that). He never let's you down for effort but offered very little threat in open play on the wing and his set pieces weren't that great. He was better at left back and put in a decent cross on the overlapp but like others had some bad passes he got away with.
Lang - thought he was great, best he's looked all season. I thought he went down to try and get their full back a second yellow when he could've been through but other that that looked a huge threat when we could get him the ball. Probably needed more support from the full back a few times that he didn't get to open them up even more.
Keane - I think that's possibly the best he's played all calendar year - sat in the big space in the middle of the pitch we so often left vacant under Richardson and linked things together nicely. Just need to get him the ball more.
Broadhead - he's clearly not a lone striker and he wasn't given much service but when we do get him on the ball you can see he has real quality - need him in midfield where we can get him more involved. His goal probably should've been given offside but has the knack for finding himself in the right place at the right time for the tap in.
Edmonds-Green - did ok, had some good and bad moments thought he probably got caught out a little on his positioning for the second goal. I think it's obvious he was 4th choice CB compared to the 3 in front of him.
Cousins - thought he was excellent and added more passing and composure in midfield compared to Naylor who he replaced. Should start next week.
Nyambe - a huge step up from Darikwa defensively, we know he's not a natural at going forward but had a good go at joining attacks.
Aasgaard - provided some much needed threat from left wing, held the ball well to feed McClean for the overlap leading to the goal. Looked like he was going to score himself but for a block that looked hand ball in real time. Hopefully he'll start next game, far more effective on the wing than McClean.
Fletcher - wasn't on that long to make a big impact but made a good impression. Could've scored an equaliser If he wasn't pulled back, should've hada penalty and got their defender sent off but ref and linesman missed it. Delighted to see him on the bench ahead of Magennis, he's a much better option to bring on.
Sheffield United are 2nd in the league have an expensive and talent squad (20m McBunnie sitting on the bench!) so it was always going to be a tough test as we transition from hoof and hope to pass and move but I think we overall competed very well.
We started brightly, ended strongly and were all over them for spells off the game. Like against Millwall we had a lot more movement, composure and a coherant method of play than we'd seen earlier in the year. Our throws were miles better, we played a high back line, more in between the lines and rarely blindly pumped it 70 yards to the strikers head. The starting 11 did find it hard getting the ball to the more attacking players at times but that got better after we made changes.
But Sheffield had a lot of pace, were fast on the transition and pressed us high to try and force us into mistakes - and that worked for them. We were also guilty of too many unforced errors. They were clearly superior to the vast majority of sides we've seen this season but I think the only thing that really separated us was our individual mistakes that they capitalised on. We were probably quite lucky they didn't score more goals from our mistakes, particularly in the first half. But if you take out our suicidal moments we restricted them to very little and caused them a fair few problems ourselves.
We all know that these players haven't been asked to try and play much passing football for the last 18 months and Toure wants to play pass and move so there was always going to be some mistakes as we adapt and transition. But unfortunately there were a lot of mistakes from players giving the ball away in dangerous areas and it seemed Sheff United's attacks were all a direct result of our errors. I don't think the issue was Toure asking too much of players or expecting them to take excessive risks I think it was just down to individual players making bad decisions. Frustratingly that cost us today but it's the learning curve we have to go through due to the huge step up we have to make from where we were to where we want to go. This is the type of stuff pre season is generally for but unfortunately we are making these mistakes in real games as we haven't got any practice ones. But I'm confident that it will get better with more time on the training pitch and as Toure works out who isn't up to it and needs replacing. I think he probablu worked out a few of those tonight.
I think it's reasonable to assume Toure has initially taken a lot of advice on team selection from Kelly in these first couple of weeks. But I think you could see from his subs that he is already starting to work out who is and isn't good enough and I think the team that we had in towards the end of the game is probably getting closer to our strongest side.
Toure was going mad on the touchline at some of the mistakes and at the final whistle the frustration from our lads was blatent. Considering we are second bottom and they are second top a narrow valiant defeat is a good showing but it seemed like we were gutted with that which I think it indicates the expectation and ambition of the players is higher than it was. It was nice to see earlier subs, taking off the weaker players and us using our full allocation as that previously wasn't the case. Overall I'd say it's clear what we are trying to do, it's a big improvement but still far from the finished article. It's very encouraging signs in a short space of time with Toure on the training ground. Today reminded me a bit of last season in reverse we had a good method of play but some poor players struggling, instead of having a poor method of play but having players good enough to get results despite it.
Individually:
Jones - thought he had another good game made 1 important save in first half, some good quick throws outs which was new and better goal kicks.
Darikwa - had a couple of good moments but too many mistakes, including gifting them their second goal. He's not been great all season but last 2 games where he's been asked to play more passes he's looked a liability. I'd have had him off at half time as he looked like an accident waiting to happen, but now Nyambe is fit he probably shouldn't play again.
Whatmough - big fan of Whatmough but his big weakness is losing his man on set pieces. Egan is always a huge threat frim set pieces and he never got tight and allowed him to easily get away from him for a free header. He did well other than that prior to going off injured but you just can't give free headers so easily and not get punished.
Tilt - defended well for the majority of the game but had a couple of mad moments that he got away with mistakes. Talked himself into a needless booking and seemed to be on the edge for the rest of the game - he loves to shithouse but I think sometimes he pushes it a bit too far.
Bennett - thought he was really poor caught in posession that lead to the corner they scored from and too many other mistakes. He's had a good career but age and injuries have caught up and he's just not a Championship player anymore. I'd have had him off at half time and shouldn't play again unless we have an injury crisis.
Power - I felt he'd be a player who'd benefit a lot from Toure's change to a passing style but I think he's underwhelmed in last 2 games. He's just not done enough for me and his main attribute of crossing has been poor. It's probably time Shinnie was given a chance in Max's place.
Naylor - pretty solid first half, won some great tackles but guilty like others of some sloppy passes.
McClean - all the goal kicks were aimed at him on the left rather than the striker and he did well winning headers from goal kicks (suprised Richardson never did that). He never let's you down for effort but offered very little threat in open play on the wing and his set pieces weren't that great. He was better at left back and put in a decent cross on the overlapp but like others had some bad passes he got away with.
Lang - thought he was great, best he's looked all season. I thought he went down to try and get their full back a second yellow when he could've been through but other that that looked a huge threat when we could get him the ball. Probably needed more support from the full back a few times that he didn't get to open them up even more.
Keane - I think that's possibly the best he's played all calendar year - sat in the big space in the middle of the pitch we so often left vacant under Richardson and linked things together nicely. Just need to get him the ball more.
Broadhead - he's clearly not a lone striker and he wasn't given much service but when we do get him on the ball you can see he has real quality - need him in midfield where we can get him more involved. His goal probably should've been given offside but has the knack for finding himself in the right place at the right time for the tap in.
Edmonds-Green - did ok, had some good and bad moments thought he probably got caught out a little on his positioning for the second goal. I think it's obvious he was 4th choice CB compared to the 3 in front of him.
Cousins - thought he was excellent and added more passing and composure in midfield compared to Naylor who he replaced. Should start next week.
Nyambe - a huge step up from Darikwa defensively, we know he's not a natural at going forward but had a good go at joining attacks.
Aasgaard - provided some much needed threat from left wing, held the ball well to feed McClean for the overlap leading to the goal. Looked like he was going to score himself but for a block that looked hand ball in real time. Hopefully he'll start next game, far more effective on the wing than McClean.
Fletcher - wasn't on that long to make a big impact but made a good impression. Could've scored an equaliser If he wasn't pulled back, should've hada penalty and got their defender sent off but ref and linesman missed it. Delighted to see him on the bench ahead of Magennis, he's a much better option to bring on.
Last edited:
runcornfan1978
Vital Squad Member
Well in some respects Jeff, we are a team of lower league players. So you're right on that one.
runcornfan1978
Vital Squad Member
Kind of harsh Jock, given that Kolo has only been in charge for 2 games. One of them against a side in the play off positions, whilst the other are a top 2 side.
It will take a bit of time. But after last night, I have a feeling that Kolo is already very quickly assessing who can & who can't cut it.
You must’ve been watching a different game to me. Yes we were sloppy first half in possession but the players took risks and tried to play football. They were all offering for the ball rather than running away from it and I can’t remember any aimless long balls which we used to do all the time. I’m not saying we’ll fly up the table but I enjoyed watching us try to play football rather than being so direct.
jeffs right
Vital Football Hero
He had the bottle to make substitutions in the right place too. Looked far better after them.
jeffs right
Vital Football Hero
But still had the lone striker flapping around aimlessly on his own with only one of five midfield players worth their wages other than Cousins and Aasgard when they came on. Long balls or no long balls gave us the same result and that first half a few long clearances could have made a difference to the scoreline.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
You are 100% correct...if you think we had the same success rate with our own throw ins as under Leam or that we played the same hoof ball then yes, you certainly didn't watch the same match I did last night.
Everyone was showing and asking instead of hiding and ofcourse we have a few not upto this level and we also played a side with some Premier league standard players but at times in the 2nd half we footballed them off the park and not a 70 yard hoof in sight.
More on the grass stuff was played than in 10 matches under Leam.
And that is why now I have some hope for this season whereas I had none under the previous manager.
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
Just watched some of those officiating decisions back. The referee was an absolute disgrace. We should have had 3 clear penalties and with them 3 red cards. I’ve no idea how these incompetents manage to reach such a level, but the standard of officiating overall is absolutely atrocious. Var isn’t the answer as it’s the same dickheads adjudicating on the footage continuing to make the wrong decisions. For balance our goal was offside which again was another simple decision they got wrong. We may have been crap and contributed to our own downfall but with competent officiating it could have been a different outcome.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
I think what we are seeing is those not pleased with Leams sacking trotting out their pre-written scripts .
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
Sheff United are a great team so a crap team playing crap could have beat them...take the blinkers off mate we weren't crap. 64% possession most of it on the floor is proof. Our end product isn't good enough but that wasn't crap.
Coddenchips
Vital Reserves Team
I think last night showed that we aren't that far away from being a mid table championship side, but we do need reinforcements next month to get there. 2 full backs and a centre half for starters especially if Whatmough is out for any length of time. I really would like to see McGrath come back as I liked what little we saw of him as he would provide a bit of forward mobility to link midfield and attack. An injection of pace wouldn't go amiss either. I like what Toure is trying to do, so hopefully he can bring in a couple of players that suit his methods more, but it's certainly easier on the eye than when LR was here.
Frank Bullitt
Vital Squad Member
Wrong! Not many were saying they weren't happy with Leams sacking people were voicing an opinion on the appointment of an inexperienced manager and coaching staff, all those that were excited by the appointment have suddenly gone quiet.
Take last night for instance, no new manager bounce in the stadium, no enthusiasm from the fans that bothered to turn up, obviously Rob Kelly still pulling the strings with team selections.
Fingers crossed a few lower league clubs are desperate for players come January and will be prepared to take a few of the dead legs off our hands that's providing there are funds available for players at our end.
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
It was crap. If you think that was good you are easily pleased. Defensively it’s was like watching the worst of the Martinez era by constantly giving the ball away and putting ourselves under pressure. If not for some poor finishing from the blades it would have been an embarrassment by half time on national tv.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
I'm not easily pleased believe me. To some extent the result was irrelevant...it's the intent and attempt to play football that pleased me. If you can't see any difference then its pointless having any conversation as your shutters are already up.
Ooooooo to Be a Wiganer
Vital 1st Team Regular
Unless 5 new players are brought in in jan we are down could have been 4 down in the first half. Yes we had a go but was to late. No one can fault the effort. But they are not good enough. Simple as that. Need a forward from some where who can score. Three centre forwards who at this level way out the depth. And if you count Humphrey that’s four. Damage was done at the start of the season thinking the team was good enough
