The Grim vs the Grecians

[BrickLatic]

TBH Brick I noticed the zonal set up but one corner in the second half just about summed us up.

The sun was directly in the keepers eyes and the ball should have been dropped on his head but what did we do, hit it long and wasted an opportunity.

this.
cheers TB

 

[moonay]

I agree with some parts of what you say, but Godo as you know was playing in the right of 3 role were J Smith played RWB, and it was noticeable that Smith was constantly getting into the wide right position when he came on which was NOT happening with Clare, and therefore created the space for the pass to happen from Midfield or Charlie as previously mentioned... this was not happening before the subs.

1st Goal came from J Smith pass from that exact position? and corners from the right ALL went in the box ? with Chris Sze heading wide from his corner so others mentioning short corners must have been referring to the 1st half ?
Caldwell brought on another left back to double up on J.Smith/Humphrys as the game had turned.
Can we field a team that includes both Martial & J Smith ?? If so what's the positional proposition? Godo has gone off the boil a bit recently? Is it time to switch Godo with J Smith and give him the deserved game time ?

The other point ... I could not see the benefit of Chris Sze coming on instead of Humphrys ?? Surely in that role Humphrys was the better option ?

Tactically, I got really confused by the choices and style so maybe someone can explain that to me ...

Anyway I think the game posed more questions to me than answers so looking to see what Team is selected for Tuesday...??

Fair points there BF, and yep, you're right, my comparison was wrong. It should have been J Smith to Clare, and not Godo (who got subbed later for Humphrys).

As for Sze, he came on for Adeeko, and Aasgard dropped deeper to let Sze take up his more advanced position. I thought that worked in replacing Adeeko, but meant that Aasgard wasn't quite as able to get in the box as much as recent games.

Tactics? ... I like the peppermint ones.

 

[moonay]

To put yesterday's efforts into context ... congratulations young man ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1756739882670842282

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

I agree with some parts of what you say, but Godo as you know was playing in the right of 3 role were J Smith played RWB, and it was noticeable that Smith was constantly getting into the wide right position when he came on which was NOT happening with Clare, and therefore created the space for the pass to happen from Midfield or Charlie as previously mentioned... this was not happening before the subs.

1st Goal came from J Smith pass from that exact position? and corners from the right ALL went in the box ? with Chris Sze heading wide from his corner so others mentioning short corners must have been referring to the 1st half ?
Caldwell brought on another left back to double up on J.Smith/Humphrys as the game had turned.
Can we field a team that includes both Martial & J Smith ?? If so what's the positional proposition? Godo has gone off the boil a bit recently? Is it time to switch Godo with J Smith and give him the deserved game time ?

The other point ... I could not see the benefit of Chris Sze coming on instead of Humphrys ?? Surely in that role Humphrys was the better option ?

Tactically, I got really confused by the choices and style so maybe someone can explain that to me ...

Anyway I think the game posed more questions to me than answers so looking to see what Team is selected for Tuesday...??

Earlier in the season we were playing Godo on the left with Jones as wing back behind him and for the handful of games we did it caused other teams havoc as they overlapped each other constantly. I never understood why we switched as I think Godo has been less effective on the right.

Also since Godo switched sides Jones and Godo aren't getting the support out wide to overlap.

Overlaps and overloads are how you really hurt teams and we really need the right and left winger and full back to be linking up more.

Chambers sometimes overlaps from left centre half and I'd like to see him doing that a lot more.

 

[runcornfan1978]

We've been through this time and again you and me Runc, so in your post you are more or less saying we haven't got the players at the moment to play the way Maloney wants, so why does he persist in playing that way?
Wouldn't it be better to play to the strengths of the players we have, good attacking football that the squad will no doubt enjoy and has proved gets results.

To bring in the players he wants to play that system would cost a small fortune and I don't think Danson will rubber stamp any big transfer fees, so somethings got to give somewhere.

How many times on here have I said "play to our strengths?" Now you have more or less stated that others and myself have been correct with that view all along.

One thing I can thank Maloney for is the heads up he won't be changing the style of play that comment could save me a few quid when it comes to buying a season ticket for next season I doubt I'll be on my own either.

He's brought in a few players & admittedly only a few at the moment who can play to the system he wants to adopt. At times it works. Quite a few times it doesn't.

This season is/was all about perseverance & making do with what we've got. In terms of playing to players strengths - which players are you referring too exactly? Take Magennis as an example. He struggled with the long ball of Richardson & seems to be struggling with the style Maloney wants to play.

As for your season ticket. On the plus side you'll be about £399 better off. But I for one can't wait to see what happens next season when the embargo has been lifted & Maloney is able to bring in even more of the players he wants WHO will be able to play to the style he wants to adopt.

Any road! I'm focusing upon this season first before I even start to consider next season. But once the early bird offers are advertised, I'll be one of the first in the queue. I love my football club you see. Irrespective of whom the manager is or whom the players are for that matter.

 

[runcornfan1978]

Who said anything about lumping? It seems that the opinion of anybody who doesn't favour a possession passing game that's so rigid are deemed to favour lumping it up. That is so off course. We don't, we just want to see football with a mixture of styles. Would we describe Jeff Wright or Glen Hoddle of playing lump ball? No skilled players at playing a long ball. What is so wrong about passing forward or putting free kicks in to the box. What is wrong with defenders getting rid of the ball to mid fielders with movement? Nothing exciting about what we do.

If I recall & I was only a wee kid back then, Jeff Wright was one of the most slated players I've ever seen

 

[bickymon]

Because he's a bleedin professional paid to give his all for the next 6 months. Discarding what that says about his attitude to future potential employers, whilst here he owes his best to his current one's- if not morally then certainly contractually.
Sorry Bicky, that sounded like a rant at you and your post, which it wasn't. I'm also not aware of if there is anymore to Humphreys (injuries etc), but as a general rule players should play the contract they're in, not look at the next one

It's OK mate understand

 

[Stokie Latic]

If Maloney wants to play keepball at the back then he needs to play Kerr (if he is fit) alongside Hughes as they are the best passing defenders or Morrison as he compliements Hughes.
Goode is a no nonsence type of centre half but is frightened to play any pass forward and I think every pass he makes is sideways or backwards and as a result is an accident waiting to happen with the ball at his feet which is putting extra pressure on Hughes to make a telling pass which means sometime he tries too much to make things happen and then ultimately gives the ball away.
Maloney's team selection and tactics are baffling and boring to watch especially at home and you can sense all the fans who sit around us turning against this rubbish week by week which is worrying for the attendances next season if this standard of entertainment continues under Maloney.

 

[Unapologetichappyclapper]

If I recall & I was only a wee kid back then, Jeff Wright was one of the most slated players I've ever seen

I remember the time at Springfield Park (don't ask when or who we were playing) Latics were attacking and Jeff Wright was well forward when the opposition broke quickly (lumped it forward). We were caught short-handed and when most had given up on trying to get back Jeff Wright busted a gut and raced the length of the field. With the goalkeeper beaten he launched himself and tried to bicycle-kick the ball off the goal line. He only succeeded in blasting the ball into the roof of the net, at which time a "loyal" supporter stood next to me screamed "Bloody Wright again!!". Jeff Wright was the whipping boy (sound familiar?) for any losses for some reason when in fact he was a great player for that level.

Seems nothing changes with some of our supporters.

 

[jeffs right]

If I recall & I was only a wee kid back then, Jeff Wright was one of the most slated players I've ever seen

He certainly was but for other reasons than his amazing vision and ability to pass a football. Long passes too and very few backwards and sideways. Although our present manager described forward passing as Basketball I much prefer the ball going forwards towards the oppositions goals muself but I am a little Neanderthal.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

I think there is a misconception that the growing frustration is the fans wanting us to completely abandon playing it out from the back and launching it forward every time.

You can play any system well or poorly. If you want to go long you need a good target man winning knock downs and flick ons and lots of runners getting on those balls. If you do that it can cause teams lots of issues and be quite exciting - but if you don't it's awful to watch and you just constantly lose posession.

Same thing with passing football, if you want to do that you've got to have movement and play the ball with tempo. If you do that it be very entertaining and effective, but if you are slow, static and ponderous then end up struggling to pass the ball forward and it's like watching paint dry.

Whatever style you pick there are fundamentals that it can't work unless you do. Our issue is too often we aren't doing those. It's not that we lack the ability to find space and move the ball quicker as we've shown they are capable of doing it exceptionally well but for whatever reason they don't do it every week.

I think most fans are happy with the idea of playing passing football, but they want to see it done with urgency as it just doesn't work otherwise. I think the feeling that we are too ponderous, rather than passing the ball out is the thing causing the frustration.

 

[Kenny Morris]

As you know I sit in the East directly opposite Maloneys dugout, I commented a few times yesterday that he stood there like a waxworks dummy with hands in pockets.

No instructions or remonstrating, zero leadership, he just reminds me of Warren Joyce and we know how that ended, we just need the clubs hierarchy to get down to games to watch the shit us fans have to endure on a regular basis.

Yet you chose to ignore the many other times that he was shouting and waving, urging players forward, and calling over individual players or does that not suit your usual narrative?

 

[hindleymonwafc]

There is not a thing wrong with playing the ball out from the back, in fact I demand we do it. The problem we have is when Matt Smith isn't playing no other bugger shows for it in midfield so it ends up going side to side along the back 4 with no outball.

 

[runcornfan1978]

Looking forward to being safe, but I am looking more forward for this shite season to be over with.
I know points wise we will have done okay but football wise it ranks as one of the worst seasons I have ever witnessed for entertainment.
The shite Maloney has made us suffer this season has at least made Bobbys crap look a bit more bearable.
Lets get this season out of the way, and hope Maloney either changes his tactics or fucks off and lets some other poor bastards suffer his shite football.

Or better still! He is allowed to bring in the type of player he wants/needs for next season who are better at playing the system.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

There is not a thing wrong with playing the ball out from the back, in fact I demand we do it. The problem we have is when Matt Smith isn't playing no other bugger shows for it in midfield so it ends up going side to side along the back 4 with no outball.

That is the concerning thing, it shouldn't be down to one players initiative, we need all of them to be doing it all the time. As if Smith is the only one doing it he'll get the ball and have no one to pass it to either.

They should all be practicing it in training non stop how to find space and create options for each other but some games it seems like players aren't even attempting it. I really don't get it as it's the basic thing all players should be expected to do.

I always feel sorry for the centre backs as they effectively get hung out to dry if no one is giving them an option.

 

[Cueball]

Two things about us playing out from the back that is frustrating to me are when a defender has the ball with twenty yards of open grass in front of him, instead of advancing into the space and drawing an opposing player out of position thus creating room for our midfielders, they pass back or sideways. The other thing is that there is often a lack of awareness by our midfield players of what is going on around them ( Matt Smith excepted) leading to them opting for the safe option of a back pass.

 

[BrickLatic]

Two things about us playing out from the back that is frustrating to me are when a defender has the ball with twenty yards of open grass in front of him, instead of advancing into the space and drawing an opposing player out of position thus creating room for our midfielders, they pass back or sideways. The other thing is that there is often a lack of awareness by our midfield players of what is going on around them ( Matt Smith excepted) leading to them opting for the safe option of a back pass.

corect
exactly what i were seying on page 4 #68.

"get the ball. nobody in 20 feet of them. looks for pass. give me strenth. can none of em carry a fecking ball these deys".

to many on heer seying that the midfeeld are not moving into space. well the ball carier has some responsebility an all. the number of times i saw are back 4 get the ball and then just bloody stop and look up insted of taking it.
when they stop so do the opositeon. they dont need to move cos they can cover all bases. carry the ball a cuple of yards and you can garentee youll draw 2 of them to you. space opens up.
this reely is basic stuff for defenders. after tecking the shins off forwards that is

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

corect
exactly what i were seying on page 4 #68.

"get the ball. nobody in 20 feet of them. looks for pass. give me strenth. can none of em carry a fecking ball these deys".

to many on heer seying that the midfeeld are not moving into space. well the ball carier has some responsebility an all. the number of times i saw are back 4 get the ball and then just bloody stop and look up insted of taking it.
when they stop so do the opositeon. they dont need to move cos they can cover all bases. carry the ball a cuple of yards and you can garentee youll draw 2 of them to you. space opens up.
this reely is basic stuff for defenders. after tecking the shins off forwards that is

I agree but to be fair to the centre halves i think they are nervous that if they advance with the ball to draw the man towards them the midfielder wont move into space to give them the pass and they'll end up with an opposition player on top of them with no passing option.

The worst ones are when the midfielders have open space to carry the ball or a forward pass available and they still turn around and go backwards.

I always think playing out from goals kicks is a bit like a formula or routine, not that you do identical movements or passes every time, but you know the basic principles of trying to find space (pulling wide, dropping deep, etc) rather than standing pretty still so the centre backs can't find you as there is an opposition player between you. If you move an opposition player either goes with you then you've opened up space for others, or if they don't go with you the centre back can pass to you.

 

[BrickLatic]

I agree but to be fair to the centre halves i think they are nervous that if they advance with the ball to draw the man towards them the midfielder wont move into space to give them the pass and they'll end up with an opposition player on top of them with no passing option.

The worst ones are when the midfielders have open space to carry the ball or a forward pass available and they still turn around and go backwards.

I always think playing out from goals kicks is a bit like a formula or routine, not that you do identical movements or passes every time, but you know the basic principles of trying to find space (pulling wide, dropping deep, etc) rather than standing pretty still so the centre backs can't find you as there is an opposition player between you. If you move an opposition player either goes with you then you've opened up space for others, or if they don't go with you the centre back can pass to you.

theese are all valid points king. but. theres alweys a but. if there that nervy not to advance with the ball then there in the rong job.

if a center defender gets the ball and moves with it then it wuld follow that he draws there midfeeld to him. theres then space behind them. pley the ball into that space. at a bit of pace if nececesary. for are midfeeld to run onto without being crowded out.

if are rite or left defendece gets the ball. it then brings in there wing pleyers leeving space behind them agen.

it dont matter to me who gets the ball. whats important is for them to carry it a few yards. bring in there pleyers and create that space behind them. a good defender shuld be able to reed the movement of his midfeeld and put the ball into the space created.

i think most agree that its not rong to pley out from the back. but. the clue is in the words PLEY OUT as oposed to stop. hold. pass sideweys out.

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

He certainly was but for other reasons than his amazing vision and ability to pass a football. Long passes too and very few backwards and sideways. Although our present manager described forward passing as Basketball I much prefer the ball going forwards towards the oppositions goals muself but I am a little Neanderthal.

Thought the basketball comment was about the game going attack, defend, attack, defend, attack, defend (repeat)