Getting the youngsters (like Tyler) much needed experience can only help us in the future, but whether you like it or not - we have struggled for the last 2-3 seasons whilst regularly playing youngsters.
We are playing catch up.
The Bury game
- Thread starter Lienking
- Start date
Getting the youngsters (like Tyler) much needed experience can only help us in the future, but whether you like it or not - we have struggled for the last 2-3 seasons whilst regularly playing youngsters.
We are playing catch up.
Woanz
Vital Football Legend
Yes but there’s a great deal to be said for learning to walk before we start sprinting. The only saving grace & the main reason we can now spend spend spend is young players. Not using a great and consistent resource is stupid & short term road to ruin.
redderthanred
Vital Reserves Team
Will Tyler come back a better player? - I think so, but let's wait and see.
Brereton has never gone out so it would be interesting if he was to go to a first or second division side!! My opinion only but with regular football I could see him bagging a hat full in a lower league side.
Think if we was to bring in another striker before the deadline Brereton would surely then be farmed out.
How did Tyler do last season at Bolton?
I really want TW to succeed and hoped he'd really kick on after scoring a brace for us last season - but it was absolutely obvious that we needed experience.
We have added that, plus taken a punt on some young imports - that we are clearly hoping will reap dividends.
I'm a little nervous at what we have spent, given the financial problems we had - but, I will keep saying this... we are playing catch up and will always struggle when signing the likes of Jamie Ward, Stephen Henderson, Matt Mills, Traore, Bendtner etc.... that's before mentioning Lam, Dumitru et al.
pebble
Vital 1st Team Regular
Bury scored inside 2 minutes - free kick from left, Smith came out but their player got there first and headed past him. It happens, maybe CBs to blame as much as Smith.
Next 10 minutes we were all over them, one lovely run to the byline by Goncalves who looked great, Byram and Robinson classy....then our CBs let them in again and Smith came charging out to clear but caught the man just outside the box and saw red.
We wanted Murphy to go off but Soudani was sacrificed, and Forest drifted. Build-up became too slow, no end product, Murphy looked past it. Ref was awful, gave Bury everything and us nothing. It looked as though Hefele and Osborn (came on as sub) were both punched without the ref even noticing.
As the second half went on, Bury started to look pretty good and were making the extra man count by knocking it around and making us chase them. We kept passing it around at the back - why play Murphy and not knock it up to him or put crosses in? Goncalves started to make mistakes and was subbed for Lolley, who immediately gave us hope by running at defenders.
He was fouled on the edge of the box after riding a foul further out - ref gave it from the place of the first foul. Osborn free kick well saved. Excuses were ready as stoppage time arrived - team of strangers, back five who'd mostly never played for us before - then Lolley crossed for Cash to sprint in from the right and sweep it home. Lolley then crossed again for someone (Hef?) to head goalwards - either a brilliant save or it came back off the post.
So 1-1 and a penalty marathon, excellent penalties from both sides and we finally scraped through, Steele the hero. Depressing until the late surge, but a test of character and a good bonding session for the new recruits.
Next 10 minutes we were all over them, one lovely run to the byline by Goncalves who looked great, Byram and Robinson classy....then our CBs let them in again and Smith came charging out to clear but caught the man just outside the box and saw red.
We wanted Murphy to go off but Soudani was sacrificed, and Forest drifted. Build-up became too slow, no end product, Murphy looked past it. Ref was awful, gave Bury everything and us nothing. It looked as though Hefele and Osborn (came on as sub) were both punched without the ref even noticing.
As the second half went on, Bury started to look pretty good and were making the extra man count by knocking it around and making us chase them. We kept passing it around at the back - why play Murphy and not knock it up to him or put crosses in? Goncalves started to make mistakes and was subbed for Lolley, who immediately gave us hope by running at defenders.
He was fouled on the edge of the box after riding a foul further out - ref gave it from the place of the first foul. Osborn free kick well saved. Excuses were ready as stoppage time arrived - team of strangers, back five who'd mostly never played for us before - then Lolley crossed for Cash to sprint in from the right and sweep it home. Lolley then crossed again for someone (Hef?) to head goalwards - either a brilliant save or it came back off the post.
So 1-1 and a penalty marathon, excellent penalties from both sides and we finally scraped through, Steele the hero. Depressing until the late surge, but a test of character and a good bonding session for the new recruits.
redderthanred
Vital Reserves Team
Both looked a bit classier than what we've been used to at full back - they did a reasonably good job to say it's virtually their first full game since last season - nothing fantastic but did the job that they are being paid to do without much hassle.
Personally I would now be looking to bring them both in at Wigan or at least Robinson with Byram given a little more time to settle in.
Woanz
Vital Football Legend
I agree up to a point but Krankz one bad performance then sacking everyone off approach isn’t the right way. You must have managed a few people & fucking them all off then starting again whilst appealing isn’t good management nor is it sustainable.
At some point he is going to have to stick with what he has, at Middlesbrough he basically quit twice though he isn’t a good manager.
The playerz from Portugal aren’t a punt either we’ve spent a good deal of money on them and are tied into further spending on them as well.
Only spent money on Figi (after a successful loan & c £1m) & Carvalho... the others are loans, with permanent signing options.
Managed plenty - in work and football, AK had to clear the deadwood and rebuild a squad.
I'm pretty happy with the signings made and the progress on the pitch (for now) - but, it is early days and we'll see the real progress in October, when we always seem to suffer!
redderthanred
Vital Reserves Team
Please don't make it sound like another David Platt scenario all over again - let's give it a bit more time before making our minds up.
Can't even think about going through that again - for those who can remember it - it was a thing that rolled on for a few years and Platt was still hated here for many years after.
Woanz
Vital Football Legend
It is too early to judge but today was shameful & I disagree the deals are risk free loans.
Clearing deadwood is one thing fucking off the only positive from the last few seasons & our only hope for a sustainable future are another.
redderthanred
Vital Reserves Team
Carvalho came in on the never - never in order to keep us down under the FFP threshold - think first years down payment was something like £5m.
Woanz
Vital Football Legend
You don’t need to tell me I was there & can see parallels already. Luckily we have a good academy which saved us from that & was so close to working. I’d try and use that now though.
cheers
Ian2005uk
Vital Youth Team
I was at the game, not many positives to take but both Byram and Robinson played well. We lacked ideas and looked like we could play for days and not score until Cash scored at the end. Obviously may have been different with a full team, thought Murphy looked slow and not really in the game which is partly down to little service. Cash and Lolley were both energetic but with little end product. Lots of poor corners and backwards passing but Bury did park the whole team behind the ball. Not the best match hopefully much better on Saturday!
forestfire_59
Vital 1st Team Regular
It seems to me that our thirst for instant gratification, knows no limits. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Wolves take 2 years to create a promotion winning side, same with Leicester ? On the one hand we want the club to use the academy more, but on the other we get upset when our young side struggle against the mighty Bury.
We’ve introduced a dozen players to the team, who haven’t played in the same team (apart from a handful of games) and we expect them to click immediately. Because we’ve spent £20 million + we are supposed to sweep all before us, from day one. West Brom and Bristol City pretty much have the same teams as they did last year.
Karanka pretty much had to smash the team apart before he built it back up again. What was the only other option ? To struggle like we have in the last 2 years. Time will only tell whether Byram and Robinson together with the heffer, Dawson, Fig and Fox will make us less susceptible to set pieces. Just like the acquisition of Soudani and Grabban will need time to deliver the attacking force that will propel us up the league. In time the steel of Colback, Watson (to a lesser extent), Bridcutt (hopefully) and Geddy together with the speed and guile of the Portuguese, will leave our defence less exposed and provide more support to our strike force.
The definition of insanity is to try the same things and expecting a different result. Throwing the kids into the 1st team and expect us to go from relegation fodder to promotion candidates in 1 year is unrealistic. Creating a solid base that may get us promotion this year or next is a helluva lot more realistic than picking over the bones of our first 4 games. As others have said we are in catch up mode.
After Fawaz, we feel we have earnt better fortunes, but football doesn’t work that way. Anything worth having takes time to build. We are professionally run on and off the pitch and it will come together, but Rome wasn’t built in a day.
We’ve introduced a dozen players to the team, who haven’t played in the same team (apart from a handful of games) and we expect them to click immediately. Because we’ve spent £20 million + we are supposed to sweep all before us, from day one. West Brom and Bristol City pretty much have the same teams as they did last year.
Karanka pretty much had to smash the team apart before he built it back up again. What was the only other option ? To struggle like we have in the last 2 years. Time will only tell whether Byram and Robinson together with the heffer, Dawson, Fig and Fox will make us less susceptible to set pieces. Just like the acquisition of Soudani and Grabban will need time to deliver the attacking force that will propel us up the league. In time the steel of Colback, Watson (to a lesser extent), Bridcutt (hopefully) and Geddy together with the speed and guile of the Portuguese, will leave our defence less exposed and provide more support to our strike force.
The definition of insanity is to try the same things and expecting a different result. Throwing the kids into the 1st team and expect us to go from relegation fodder to promotion candidates in 1 year is unrealistic. Creating a solid base that may get us promotion this year or next is a helluva lot more realistic than picking over the bones of our first 4 games. As others have said we are in catch up mode.
After Fawaz, we feel we have earnt better fortunes, but football doesn’t work that way. Anything worth having takes time to build. We are professionally run on and off the pitch and it will come together, but Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Forest fire...the team we fielded last night consisted of...Murphy, Dawson, Watson, Hefele, Robinson to name a few...hardly kids...we played a L2 team not another Championship team...at the announcement of the line up many were saying that this team was better then what we had in the last 4 years nd might be even better then the one on saturday...fast forward 2 hours nd many are looking fof every excuse in the world to justify that crap of a performance...i agree that it is still early to judge but i can comment only on what i see...nd i m far from impressed...names we have alot but we r pretty much toothless...creating almost nothing...we cannot keep blaming the defence for the odd mistake...we r not Man City after all...but with all the investment done in midfield nd upfront we should create more nd score more ... in short... I m worried nd not impressed by AK so far...nd my opinion comes not only on this season but also for what he did last season...he is a goid talker maybe...no manager has been backed as much as him, had enough tome to identify the needs , other managers that were slaughtered here...had less time nd no money...AK had both...no more excuses ..play offs is the minimum for this season..
forestfire_59
Vital 1st Team Regular
As I said before the game, in the overall context of our season this match was a nothing game. This is evidenced by the fact that only 8,712 people turned up, it might as well have been behind closed doors. 50 years of following forest has led me to expect this kind of performance. For Byram, Heffer and Robinson this was effectively their pre-season having not played this season. Murphy shouldn’t be anywhere near the side.
It is reasonable to expect professional footballers, paid more in a month than most people in a year, to put a shift in. However, they are human at the end of the day. Games like this are never pretty, if they were, more than 8,712 people would have turned up. No atmosphere, against a dogged team with a plan, with a team that have hardly played together and not fit yet was only ever going to end this way. These games are always dour. Whether or not we’ve wasted our money, will be judged against teams such as Aston Villa, Middlesbrough and Stoke rather than Bury.
In terms of getting minutes into players’ legs and developing understanding between players, this game was always one to be endured rather than enjoyed. The instant gratification squad expect 12 new players to suddenly come together and gel, and they will be disappointed. It won’t be until October or November before we will see what we really have on our hands a team ready to challenge or a collection of players.
Because of the scale of the re-build I’d be happy for us to be in the mix at the end of the season but am not expecting it. To expect anything more than that is not realistic, given the car crash that we have been for far too many years. It is easy to be critical, but that critique should be balanced by the fact that this summer we tore down the side, and started again. In doing that, AK has been extremely brave we should match that bravery and get behind the team.
FF no one is behind the team more then me, but I repeat i comment on what i see, i am patient and i dont expect us to win 4 nil every week, but apart from the defence (that included 3 new players), the rest of the team had all pre season together, so, mistakes from the defence might be understandable, but not having a shot on goal for 80 minutes cannot be attributed to players that havent played together at all. In theory and quality of players and giving the benefit of new starts (in defence) we should have won this game 5-2 or something like that. The early goal can be blamed on the defence, the sending off the same but how you cannot create almost nothing for 80 minutes be justified?...maybe Bury played the game of their season, but its up to the manager and his coaching staff to prepare for such games...we played in pre season v Oldham -similar game, excuses: it was pre season, Oldham played the game of their life etc etc ... did the manager learned from that game? what was his approach? he said that he prepares to win each game, so lets not blame it on the attendance pls... games like these are always banana skins, many teams play their stiffs or kids for games like these...we didnt we played a strong team, a team to win convincingly ... the manager subbed Yates at half time not Watson (and according to the radio , Yates was playing well), changed the shape of the team cause he wanted to win and not just to give a run in to the stiffs...lets wait untill October/november ...usuall jargon every year...and we go from there...even though previous managers that had less time to prepare and no money to spend...were crucified early in the season because they didnt produce champaine football ... Ak at his disposal, have Colback, Gueddy, watson, the three gezzers, lolley, cash, Soudani ..etc etc ... etc... I dont think that i will be asking too much if i expect a top 6 finish... other teams achieved that goal with much less (ok..others failed with more), but it is always due to good or bad management... the club structure and administration cannot be blamed anymore now...its top draw and premiership level ...(we even half a cardboard of the chairman for players presentations... lol )...
mao tse tung
Vital Champions League
The attitude of the players left a lot to be desired; and it just goes to show that teams that look good on paper are not always that good on the pitch.
The keeper can feel badly let down by his defence; Dawson was clearly at fault for the first goal - he lost his man and the keeper had to commit.
The second goal could be put down to a joint venture between Dawson and Hafele; Dawson should have done much better with his challenge and Hafele completely lost his man.
Yates was hit and miss; we badly missed Geddy in the middle.
It would be completely foolhardy to judge any of the new signings on last nights incredibly poor performance.
It was worth it in the end just for the shoot out; the standard of penalty taking on both sides was very high; it certainly made a 200 mile round trip a tad more palatable
