Thanks Sam | Vital Football

Thanks Sam

J

jeffs right

Vital Football Hero
Hard enough with the managers team selection today to beat the best side we have faced yet this season but to get sent off, bloody ridiculous. At least there's a place to play Connolly now.
 
Wasn't a red for me. The aerial challenge against Evans in our last game was far worse. Two went in for a header, only one winner being Sam and he was given a red. We were second best throughout, he wasn't sent off for a late or petty foul. Simply for attacking a 50/50 with his head.

Walton was phonemically saved 3 1 on 1's, Maupay went clean through 3 times. James made a pass back error, other times he got in behind Dunkley.

The better team won today. It happens move onto Tuesday. They play some excellent football in tight spaces and angle their runs and time their passes very well.

Walton Motm, could of been 5+ before Sam was sent off. We had a couple chances here and there. Powell with a half volley turned over by their keeper, Powell went through from a Windass chipped pass but the shot was blocked because he had to wait and control with chest.

Robinson and James struggled with Watkins and Benrahama. They exposed the space down Robinson's side regularly. Also his touch wasn't right, run into players and lost control quite often.

Kipre was the best of the back four for me, made some blocks. Stepped out of defence to retain possession and also to block multiple shots.

Have to give credit to Brentford, they work hard without the ball and move it will intelligence and quality in the final third.
 
From where I was sat Victor looked like he led with his arm so deserved sending off. Their player conned the ref though by pretending to be out cold. That’s why the ref was straight on it
 
SwindonLatic said:
From where I was sat Victor looked like he led with his arm so deserved sending off. Their player conned the ref though by pretending to be out cold. That’s why the ref was straight on it
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Shame as I thought we might give them a game in the second half as we started better. Stupid sending off. Morsy was off the pace all afternoon and shouldn’t have started, we have enough strength in depth in central midfield. Brentford were far too mobile for us. But looking at the table we’re still a win outside the playoffs. On to Tuesday to put this result behind us. Such a nothing game when Sam went off today, which was a shame as I thought it had the potential to be the game of the day!
 
Sending off appeared harsh on the highlights and if it was anyone else I suspect it would have been just a booking. Did it alter the course of the game? I think we should appeal this one.
The league is proving to be quite a tight one so far and two home wins would make it interesting for us.
 
SwindonLatic said:
From where I was sat Victor looked like he led with his arm so deserved sending off. Their player conned the ref though by pretending to be out cold. That’s why the ref was straight on it
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I'll have to see it again, looked head to head with Morsy's momentum going through their player. If your right and he did connect with the arm first then i agree he would of deserved to have been sent off. If his arm connected after he headed the ball then thats not a red for me. It happened very quickly.

I agree with you on the game. It looked like either team could score in the second half before the red card. We had our moments in the first half as well, Powell's reverse pass to Vaughan went just wide of the top corner and few other chances. But we never sustained any pressure for a period of time. Griffin park has a small pitch and they play on it very well, was the same at Loftus road and we didn't do well their either.
 
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He was way too late with his challenge. Looked like he led with the forearm to me, but like you would be interested to see the replay. The ref definitely thought it was more serious because of the way their player lay prostate on the ground.

Slightly off thread, but Brentford use everything they can to aid their style. Slowing down the opposition trying to take a quick throw or free kick so they can regroup into position, herding round their dug out whenever there was a break in play to get the energy drinks on board. It was subtle but seemed like a deliberate ploy. We need to get a bit more savvy like that.
 
Didn't go so can't comment as I've yet to see it. Mate at the game however said it wasn't a red but a yellow at best. I think what swung it was the fact he'd been lectured a minute prior to the challenge so will likely have influenced the decision.

Looking at the bigger picture it may actually do us a favour. Whilst we'll miss him it affords Morsy to have that opportunity to get the rest he never got in the summer as he's seemed slightly off the pace so far. Personally if I was Cook I'd give him a fortnight off and get him in just prior to the Swansea game.
 
We never do well after an international break, or in London for years. Brentford are a decent team so the result was always likely. No need for much soul searching, just move on from it.

Not convinced about Connolly playing in that position, we have better options there and would like to see a more offensive player on Tuesday. Again it's a shocking reflection on CM fitness that he can't get in the team and highlights Dione questionable summer business. Talk of 7-9 points from the brentford, hull and Bristol games was always overly optimistic. 4 from the next 2 will be a decent return from these fixtures.
 
For me it was a 50/50 header to be won with both men steaming in - you could tell unless someone pulled out it could be a dangerous / bad foul and risk a red. Morsy got there second and seemed to push the lad away with both arms as he went for the header, both of his hands looked around the lads head / face. I don't think it was a punch or an elbow i think it was mostly Morsy trying to protect himself but he also probably went in a little harder than he needed to as you know Morsy loves to rough up his opponents when he gets a chance. The Brentford lad and his team mates made the absolute most of it to help convince the ref it was a certain red but Morsy was asking for trouble to be honest the way he raised his arms as he went in. Morsys not the type of player to shirk any challenge but with where the ball was on the pitch i think he shouldn't have taken the risk going for the header, but it was his misplaced pass he was trying to recover and in the heat of the moment you can see how it happened.

I think it probably looked worse than it actually was Morsy had been biting at Brentford players all game and the ref had already talked to Morsy a few times so i think the Brentford reaction and Morsy's previous s--- housing made it hard to get the benefit of the doubt. I think it was a justifiable red and i honestly don't blame the ref for giving it. I think Morsy walks a tightrope most games but today i think he was getting very frustrated and strayed the wrong side of the line.

3 match ban, just as well Gibson is back.
 
Just seen the highlights myself. Looked like two players going to head the ball, he only came from about two yards so I'm struggling to see any intent or premeditation in the challenge. I couldn't see however what he did with his arm, but didn't look like an elbow so I'm struggling to see how it's a red. I think the over reaction of the brentford players probably influenced the decision. The other tv angles may determine if we appeal it - though to be honest I'd just take it on the chin and see it as a blessing in disguise to give him a rest.
 
Red for dangerous play to me.
The Brentford player has already won the ball before Morsy goes in with his head - I think he knew exactly what he was doing but even if it was a genuine mistake, if a player makes a late dangerous challenge with his feet (such as studs up) it’s a straight red. This is no different

In Morsy’s defence, the Brentford player gets a shove in the back from Connolly (I think) which possibly messes up the the timing of Morsy’s challenge
 
Red card replay from twitter - i think it's really hard to tell to be honest, there may have been a sly elbow in there. I've watched it back multiple times and I can see how you could argue either way.

The way Morsy had been getting into it with a few Brentford players and they reacted to force the red made it even harder for the ref to make the call.

We've had some awful decisions but i'm not going to critasise the ref for this one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1041006908264603650
 
I disagree, it wasn't a red. Two players making a genuine challenge for the ball with their head. I accept the brentford lad got there a split second earlier than Sam but Sam only came from two yards away so had no momentum with him. If it wasn't for the Connolly push I've no idea who would have won the ball but regardless it was definitely not a red card and was a challenge you see in every game. No intent and wasn't reckless. Once more a referee was influenced by opposing players. This is something we need to do more of ourselves, regardless of the morality of it. Having seen the highlights I don't think it had much of an influence on the result and if it gives Sam an enforced rest then it's a blessing in disguise.
 
I know I’ve explained this before MiW, but there doesn’t need to be any intent for a challenge to be given a red card.

However it’s all about interpretation & different people can view things differently so I can’t argue with the rest of what you say.
The more I see it though the more IMO I think the shove plays a major part. I think it makes Morsy query whether to make a challenge or not as you see a little pause. Then he makes his mind up to go for it but by this point it’s too late as he isn’t going to get the ball.
The other guy does & Morsy is at point making a late challenge that he’s never going to win and is leading with his head.
That’s what makes the challenge dangerous and therefore a red card in my opinion

I can’t see him following through with his arm so can’t comment on that accusation from Brentford’s manager
 
Not a red,the Brentford players got him sent off.What Morsy did wrong was staying on his feet,he should have gone down like a sack of spuds clutching his head and he wouldn't have even been booked .
 
I don't agree with that assessment MB given n the TV angle I've seen. You witness challenges like that every game - in fact worse as players come in from distance, with speed to challenge for an aerial ball. Invariably one gets there before the other but you don't see red cards brandished as it's a genuine attempt to win a ball which you are allowed to do using your head. Even those leading with a forearm don't see red and most of the time those using elbows don't either. Morsy wasn't out of control as he came from only two yards and wasn't at speed. Unless you believe he deliberately went in to headbutt him, having formed the mens rea to do so in a micro second, then it was a genuine attempt to win the ball resulting in a clash of heads. The Connolly challenge didn't help as the brentford lad wasnt in control of his own body movement making the impact for him worse than what it actually was as he wasn't able to brace himself for any impact. I think that is the key to the incident. It was only the over reaction of players I believe that swayed the referees opinion. Unless other angles show something different it's challengable in my opinion, but personally I wouldn't.
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
Red for dangerous play to me.
The Brentford player has already won the ball before Morsy goes in with his head - I think he knew exactly what he was doing but even if it was a genuine mistake, if a player makes a late dangerous challenge with his feet (such as studs up) it’s a straight red. This is no different

In Morsy’s defence, the Brentford player gets a shove in the back from Connolly (I think) which possibly messes up the the timing of Morsy’s challenge
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The Brentford player hasn't won the ball though. The clash of heads occur before the ball has reached them. The ball then bounces off the Brentford players chest as he is falling down.

Like has been mentioned the fact the the Brenford player carried on playing shows he faked concussion as he would not have continued otherwise. Has Morsy dropped down and faked it too, he wouldn't have gpt sent off.

Both players messed up their headers the Brentford player more so the push in the back. Morsy definitely more at fault but not a red card.

Should have been a free kick for Connollys push and yellow to Connolly.

Surely in the aftermath though Brentfords number 22 shouls have seen red for running half the length of the pitch and raising his hands to Morsy.
 
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