Sunderland at DW | Page 13 | Vital Football

Sunderland at DW

Dont understand why some are upset at losing a reserve game
Way i see it it was a perfect opportunity for richardson to have a look at what he has in reserve
From what he and his assistants must have seen is that in that respect a majority of those who played are not up to the standard required
And will i hope be got rid off soon enough ,and replacements will be brought in january transfer window
Has brannigan as already stated we are on the look out now to strengthen in january
For those who payed last night fair do for doing so,but for alot off people saturday is by far a bigger game
 
Sorry Bicky but thats easy to say if you didnt stump up to watch that shocker last night.

Its ok saying LR wasnt bothered about the competition but guess what? A few thousand Latics fans were bothered hence coughing up to not only watching the reserves but a shite gutless performance to boot.
People have every right to be pissed off!
 
I'm with EV on this. Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed that we lost, and I didn't rate most of the players as having had a decent game, but
a) in the scheme of things, it's not really a problem
b) no matter how poorly the team played, it's the first time many have played together, so it's maybe understandable,
and
c) just because Sunderland beat us (and in the league) means bugger all as to where they'll finish at the end of the season.

Yes, only Tilt had a decent game, but for me, only Cousins and Jones were particularly disappointing. Most of the rest - including Massey - were just poor, with Smith and Humphrys probably being the best of a bad bunch.

Kerr was obviously a little shaken by the pace of the game, but he managed to recover most of the time. Pearce is obviously not the player he was ... maybe it's a confidence thing as opposed to a physical issue. I hope he gets sorted.


The one I'm most disappointed with was Jones. He's suppose to be one of our star signings. He's supposed to have that little bit of class. He didn't show much last night ..... and nor did he run his bollocks off either.

As for fans being aggrieved that they bought a ticket and wish they hadn't, well all I can say is "more fool you". What on earth did you expect? Almost every team puts out understrength sides at this point in this cup. For me, the starting XI wasn't a bad one, but they just hadn't played together much ... if at all. Granted, there were a few young lads on the bench, but how on earth are they meant to develop if they don't get given a chance?

All in all,we're out of a cup that would have been a nice problem to have, and might (though not necessarily) have brought in some more money ... but there's another one to come.

Now, roll on the real business on Saturday.
 
moonay said:
I'm with EV on this. Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed that we lost, and I didn't rate most of the players as having had a decent game, but
a) in the scheme of things, it's not really a problem
b) no matter how poorly the team played, it's the first time many have played together, so it's maybe understandable,
and
c) just because Sunderland beat us (and in the league) means bugger all as to where they'll finish at the end of the season.

Yes, only Tilt had a decent game, but for me, only Cousins and Jones were particularly disappointing. Most of the rest - including Massey - were just poor, with Smith and Humphrys probably being the best of a bad bunch.

Kerr was obviously a little shaken by the pace of the game, but he managed to recover most of the time. Pearce is obviously not the player he was ... maybe it's a confidence thing as opposed to a physical issue. I hope he gets sorted.


The one I'm most disappointed with was Jones. He's suppose to be one of our star signings. He's supposed to have that little bit of class. He didn't show much last night ..... and nor did he run his bollocks off either.

As for fans being aggrieved that they bought a ticket and wish they hadn't, well all I can say is "more fool you". What on earth did you expect? Almost every team puts out understrength sides at this point in this cup. For me, the starting XI wasn't a bad one, but they just hadn't played together much ... if at all. Granted, there were a few young lads on the bench, but how on earth are they meant to develop if they don't get given a chance?

All in all,we're out of a cup that would have been a nice problem to have, and might (though not necessarily) have brought in some more money ... but there's another one to come.

Now, roll on the real business on Saturday.
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Nicely put Sir.
That red sky over the stadium,last night, didn't bode too well either.
 
formbylatic said:
9 changes!!
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I know! Just feel really frustrated that we basically threw a team together and it's no surprise we looked all at sea. The backup players at Sunderland are established in the squad with plenty of first team minutes so it was always likely to turn out the way it did. Hard for anyone to make an impression in that type of game and I don't think anyone stood out, so all in all a waste of an opportunity.
 
moonay said:
I'm with EV on this.
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I don't really mind about the team selection, I was a little disappointed with the bench as there was zero scope to change things if it went wrong, but I fully expected wholesale changes and stumped up my money to watch anyway.

However, I'm with T&C on this in that what I didn't expect was the lack of effort and then the lack of a plan B to try to change things around.
I don't mind losing, it's the manner of the loss that's galling.
 
ExiledViking said:
Not really.
1 team wanted to win ...the other team didn’t ...move on, nothing to see here.
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Those players haven't played much this season, they aren't tired and will all be chomping at the bit to get into the starting 11. They certainly will have wanted to win and force their way into the first team - but they got played off the park.

One side played hoof and hope and the other played pass and move, the methods were polar opposite and we got played off the park.
 
I'd only label a lack of effort against a couple of players ... Jones and Cousins, and with Cousins, it's not that he didn't try hard, it's just that he seemed to either lose the ball or passes would go astray every time he had it.

Massey wasn't great, but I thought he was no worse than anyone else, and he did actually make a few good plays.

What was obvious is that our second string haven't got the knack (or class) of our 1st XI of exploiting space made when the front man (Humphrys/Wyke) pull their centre halves out of position. That's what Jones, Massey and Edwards should have been doing.

Edit - oh, and the other thing that the 1st XI seem to have learned, that was distinctively obvious last night, is that you can't have too much space between the defensive and attacking areas. We were continually going long because Smith and Cousins couldn't find Edwards, Massey and Jones because they were too far upfield. (Taking note of KDZ's point).
 
I think sometimes it's easy to say 'they didn't try' when actually there is a bit more to it.

I think Sunderlands high press panicked us into going long all the time which meant that we surrendered possession back every time (they did exactly the same in the league game). Because the ball wasn't sticking the attacking midfield stopped pushing up to pick up non existent knock downs and getting caught behind the ball and Sunderlands movement and energy had us on the back foot.

I think Sunderland's tactics were far better than ours and forced us into playing to our weaknesses and demoralised us - we had absolutely no response. It wouldn't matter who we brought on tonight against Sunderland - if we really wanted to get anywhere we would've needed to change our style of play and we didn't attempt that.

There is no question that a lot of players weren't playing to their best and didn't take responsibility like you'd hope - but our tactics set us up to fail tonight. You need to set the team up to allow players to show their best and those tactics didn't suit anyone in our side and we simply didn't know how to change them.
 
moonay said:
I'm with EV on this. Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed that we lost, and I didn't rate most of the players as having had a decent game, but
a) in the scheme of things, it's not really a problem
b) no matter how poorly the team played, it's the first time many have played together, so it's maybe understandable,
and
c) just because Sunderland beat us (and in the league) means bugger all as to where they'll finish at the end of the season.

Yes, only Tilt had a decent game, but for me, only Cousins and Jones were particularly disappointing. Most of the rest - including Massey - were just poor, with Smith and Humphrys probably being the best of a bad bunch.

Kerr was obviously a little shaken by the pace of the game, but he managed to recover most of the time. Pearce is obviously not the player he was ... maybe it's a confidence thing as opposed to a physical issue. I hope he gets sorted.


The one I'm most disappointed with was Jones. He's suppose to be one of our star signings. He's supposed to have that little bit of class. He didn't show much last night ..... and nor did he run his bollocks off either.

As for fans being aggrieved that they bought a ticket and wish they hadn't, well all I can say is "more fool you". What on earth did you expect? Almost every team puts out understrength sides at this point in this cup. For me, the starting XI wasn't a bad one, but they just hadn't played together much ... if at all. Granted, there were a few young lads on the bench, but how on earth are they meant to develop if they don't get given a chance?

All in all,we're out of a cup that would have been a nice problem to have, and might (though not necessarily) have brought in some more money ... but there's another one to come.

Now, roll on the real business on Saturday.
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I do agree with a lot of what you are saying Moonay, and I went to the game knowing that it would not be the same players on the pitch as were there on Saturday. The problem for me was the lack of effort by some and the tactics employed by the manager.

Every player on show last night should have been playing for their right to represent the club in the first team and that was not evident. Too many of them looked off the pace and were continually static when not in possession. Much has been made of the long ball tactics but I feel much of this was forced onto under pressure defenders who were looking for the short pass that wasn't there. No one was showing for them to make the pass and hence they just resorted to hoof and hope.

Humphry's had no support from midfield and was flogging a dead horse up until, I feel, he gave up in the latter stages of the game. Massey, Edwards and Jones were like fish out of water and failed to impose themselves in any way upon the game.

Tilt was his usual combative self and showed why we resigned him, but I think Kerr was shell shocked at the pace of the game and found himself out of position on a number of occasions and had to resort to last ditch challenges to make up. Pearce has lost his confidence and looks very tentative going forward, although he did make a couple of runs but was not found by our defensive midfield when in a decent position. The young lad Lloyd looks to be a prospect but is short of experience and had a torrid time.

To be completely candid, it was a poor performance and will not have done any of the players claims to be regular starters in the first team any good at all. As others have said, if we do have a series of injuries last nights showing does not fill me with confidence that the replacements will cope. This is not an over reaction as EV would say but a measured conclusion based on watching these players on three occasions in cup competition.

To all those saying that the cup competitions don't matter, I beg to differ. It is the only way that many of the fringe players will get to participate in meaningful competitive fixtures rather than playing against young inexperienced players in U23 fixtures. I would also say that in these days of budget constraints and lack of finance in the game any team that can turn down the opportunity of extra income from participating in cup competitions is very lucky and given that the stated aims of our owner and chairman are to make the club self sufficient I think they will be very disappointed that one income stream has now ended.

To sum it all up I think that last night, although not a disaster, was a disappointment for the fans, the management and the players and has shown us that there is still a way to go in our return to being a stable and successful club.

Last night will not cause any major set backs but will act as a reminder of how far we have come and how much further we need to go.
 
Pubey said:
I know! Just feel really frustrated that we basically threw a team together and it's no surprise we looked all at sea. The backup players at Sunderland are established in the squad with plenty of first team minutes so it was always likely to turn out the way it did. Hard for anyone to make an impression in that type of game and I don't think anyone stood out, so all in all a waste of an opportunity.
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Sunderlands had 6 new signings in their starting eleven, 5 or so of them are young lads who haven't played many first team minutes and only 2 or 3 from their regulars, so they weren't really any different the side we put out.

It was an even match - we just performed worse.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Sunderlands had 6 new signings in their starting eleven, 5 or so of them are young lads who haven't played many first team minutes and only 2 or 3 from their regulars, so they weren't really any different the side we put out.

It was an even match - we just performed worse.
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I get your point KDZ, but to be fair, those 6 new signings were recruited into an established set-up, that had been operating as (supposedly) one of the best in the league for a couple of seasons.

The fact that we're even able to put out a second string (given where we were only a few months ago) is a fantastic achievement as far as I'm concerned. The contest was "even" on the surface, but we both know that in reality, it wasn't.

I've said very clearly that I'd have been more than happy with a boring, consolidatory mid table finish this season. Instead, after a very tough starting fixtures line-up, we're top of the league !!! If the price we have to pay for that is exiting last night's competition, then that's fine by me.
 
Tree and Crown said:
Sorry Bicky but thats easy to say if you didnt stump up to watch that shocker last night.

Its ok saying LR wasnt bothered about the competition but guess what? A few thousand Latics fans were bothered hence coughing up to not only watching the reserves but a shite gutless performance to boot.
People have every right to be pissed off!
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For once I agree with you T&C......but what about those sad sad plastic Geordies...singing like they'd won the champions league & their even sadder obsession with Charlie W - get a life you red&white wanna be barcodes.
 
The minute we went top of the league on Saturday should have set the alarm bells ringing about this game. As soon as that happened it was obvious that automatic promotion would be everything this season I bought my ticket for this game yesterday morning, so only have myself to blame for paying £23 for mine and my lads tickets. However it all became worth it when Ben Amos handed his signed gloves to my delighted 10 year old. What a top bloke and although it wasn't the best performance I still love everything about this club!
 
moonay said:
I'd only label a lack of effort against a couple of players ... Jones and Cousins, and with Cousins, it's not that he didn't try hard, it's just that he seemed to either lose the ball or passes would go astray every time he had it.

Massey wasn't great, but I thought he was no worse than anyone else, and he did actually make a few good plays.

What was obvious is that our second string haven't got the knack (or class) of our 1st XI of exploiting space made when the front man (Humphrys/Wyke) pull their centre halves out of position. That's what Jones, Massey and Edwards should have been doing.

Edit - oh, and the other thing that the 1st XI seem to have learned, that was distinctively obvious last night, is that you can't have too much space between the defensive and attacking areas. We were continually going long because Smith and Cousins couldn't find Edwards, Massey and Jones because they were too far upfield. (Taking note of KDZ's point).
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Sorry, you're miles off with Cousins. He played a few loose passes, probably because he was knackered having been stuck with double the workload off the ball tonight due to the headless chicken as a central midfield partner next to him.

king_dezeeuw06 said:
Sunderlands had 6 new signings in their starting eleven, 5 or so of them are young lads who haven't played many first team minutes and only 2 or 3 from their regulars, so they weren't really any different the side we put out.

It was an even match - we just performed worse.
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Correct, they proved a point tonight, their depth is far stronger than ours and they'll cope with any injuries to key personnel over the season. Worryingly they also looked far better coached than our lads, fantastic movement off the ball, penetrative forward passes. It was like a training session for them.
 
C_Latic said:
Sorry, you're miles off with Cousins. He played a few loose passes, probably because he was knackered having been stuck with double the workload off the ball tonight due to the headless chicken as a central midfield partner next to him.
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Opinions mate. I'm only commenting on what I saw, and my interpretation of it. I thought Cousins was poor in most things, whilst Smith was clearly trying, but too often, couldn't find find an outlet when trying to play the ball forward.

Not sure who's right, but it doesn't really matter.

C_Latic said:
Worryingly they also looked far better coached than our lads, fantastic movement off the ball, penetrative forward passes. It was like a training session for them.
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Good job their 1st XI isn't being coached as well as ours then.
;)
 
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