Stoke Away | Page 5 | Vital Football

Stoke Away

That is a stupid statement, how can you drop anyone from the team, if James keeps performing he keeps his place, Byrne will have to be patient.


Similar to Connolly, as soon as Evans was ready he took that place. Byrne is better at going forward and defending. James has the size advantage.

If Afobe didn't head the ball away from Mcclean that would of been 1-0 to them. Like i said before he's a decent player but not as good as Byrne. He gets caught out of position quite often and isn't anywhere near as good with the ball.
 
Couldn't make it to the game tonight due to work so had to watch it on tv but what a game to miss live! Those first 30 minutes were very tough and it looked like we lacked our usual composure and maybe showed them too much respect. But after that first goal went in we found our groove and we were superb.

Fantastic start to the season against 4 of the most expensive squads in the division and some of the promotion favourites, 7 points is a great return, it would be 10 if it wasn't for some bad luck but it wouldn't have been undeserved if it was 4 wins in 4.

This is EXACTLY the type of football i always wanted us to play; no nonsense exciting and attacking football, played at at high tempo with plenty of hard work and not afraid to get stuck in when needed. This is how football should be played - what a brilliant manager Paul Cook is. Our new owners need to make sure that when the inevitable sackings at other big championship or Prem clubs happen that they move heaven and earth to keep him here as there will be no shortage of admirers at the rate we are going.

I thought it was very interesting to see how we changed our tactics when defending the lead in the second half, appeared to switch to wing backs and moved Powell up front rather than bring Vaughan on and try to have him hold it up - seemed to work a treat.

QPR will be a massive bannana skin at the weekend, some will think we are certain to beat them - but football never works like that. We've had 4 games as the underdog against teams who wanted to go toe to toe with us - this will be a completely different challenge. We will be red hot favourites and they will be afraid of us so will probably be more likely to try and keep it tight and frustrate us, so i think we've got to make sure we don't take anything for granted. If we can turn in another performance like we have in our first 4 games then we could seriously do some damange but football has a nasty habit of delivering a low after a high so we need to make sure we don't let that happen.
 
LMB, you need to consider that choosing "should", rather than "could" does bring a different tone to your post.


Doesn't take away from the fact that we 'should' - or the fact that I am ecsta'TIC' at the way we have started this season, results don't matter up to now it's the quality of the team and how we seemed to have stepped up, as I posted after the forest game, a few little tweaks (mainly concentration) and we will be a force in this league.
 
Just back from game, absolutely buzzing after that. Shaky first 15 minutes when they were on top in game and likes of McClean, Allen and their two strikers were giving us a few problems. From the time of our first goal until end of match though it really was cruise control. Completely dominated a club who until recent times were a solid midtable Prem side.

MOTM for me was between Massey and Powell. Both excellent. Massey laid on the first for Grigg with a superb cross and then tbat run and finish for the second goal was brilliant. He really has stepped up so far this season with his displays.

Special shout out to Recce James as well. Thought he ran Massey and Powell really close in the MOTM stakes. Defensively he looks very sound and composed and he is developing his attacking game nicely too. If he can develop his crossing a bit more and continue these fine displays for rest of season he will be on loan at a Premier League club next season. Like him a lot.

Dunks his usual solid self tonight. Kipre getting better every game and he was superb and dominant in central defence tonight. Grigg showing he can step up at Championship level and Morsy had a super game too. So happy with the players tonight.

Stoke looked awful tonight, feel for Rowett, been dealt a bad hand with that awful squad. Three of their back 4 in Shawcross, Williams and Pieters are awful and Fletcher belongs in a retirement home.

Off to QPR on Sat, hopefully another fine performance and 3 more points. Up the Tics!
 
Solid team performance from everyone. Took until we scored the first to settle but considering how young that defence is and the std of football they have played at , is hardly surprising.
Four good performances, who knows where this could lead especially if nick can stay fit all season.
 
What an absolutely beltin' nite.

To be balanced stoke were the better team for 25 minutes. We looked shakey at the back and nervous in midfield. I'd like to see the offside goal again as it wasn't obvious behind the goal and if it wasn't for a great clearance from afobe that tosser McLean looked favourite with a header.

After that however it was one way traffic. I thought it was a great goal from Grigg, great movement, outmuscled a defender and a great finish. Massey kept his effort down today and did well again, looks a far better player this season that he did last. The third killed the game. Sad as it reads I loved the way we just kept the ball after that and it was like watching a training session at times.

Once more I've issues with the ref. Again I'm perplexed why he didn't dismiss whoever fouled Powell for the pen, pulled back again 6 yards out with a tap in awaiting. Williams was a disgrace - when is a head butt, even in the chest not a straight red? He lost his head and should have been carded again for chopping down Powell twice before a ludicrous challenge for his dismissal.

Brilliant night for us and no complaints from me - I thought James did really well so don't get the comments about byrne deserving his place back. For how good we were once we'd scored I thought stoke were absolutely shocking. Reminded me of how we were several years back, a lot of big name players woefully underperforming. They were dreadful. It'll take some turn around for them to get anywhere near promotion. For us it's great to see such positive football and for us to be playing as team.
 
Powell, Kipre and Massey were excellent. The game was compressed with two high defensive lines, making both teams have pressure on the ball. We started very strong for 5-10 mins. After Powell was wrestled on the edge of the box they took control for 20 or so mins. Was great to see us get through that and then score with one of our first shots on goal.

Credit to Massey on his goal, beat two players with a nice touch and go. Also for his assist to Grigg for the opener. He stepped up two levels so far this season and looks every part a championship player at the moment. Last season he was consistently in the bottom 3 performers for me week in week out. Not once so far this season. Hopefully he continues the way he's playing throughout the season.

Kipre, can't say enough good words about him. To see his level of composure for a 21 year old is very rare. When he made mistakes against Villa, he never changed his style of play or let it affect his judgement. Too often you see players try to make up for an error, which almost always leads to more errors.

All of the starting 11 have played well so far this season. Giving cook an easy decision on team selection.

On Byrne, i'd bring him back into the team when fit. Shouldn't lose his position due to injury. James is a decent player, but i rate Byrne as the better option right now.

The only criticism of kipre was letting the ball bounce when
in a defensive position giving opponents a 50/50 chance
of winning the ball but hey he is only 21
BC
 
I agree with you on that Bc, it was raining quite heavy, usually he attacks everything in the air. Possibly with the wind he didn't want to get caught out tonight. He did Robinson a solid early in the game with that miss placed pass. Than Dunkley intercepted the the poor pass.
 
Wonderful performance - weathered the expected early storm, rode their (deserved) luck at times early on and then totally demolished Stoke with the ruthless precision we’ve come to expect in attack so far this campaign.

I assume ‘Brett’ is currently mumbling “League One players...” to himself repeatedly whilst rocking back and forth in the corner of a dark room. ?
 
Wonderful performance - weathered the expected early storm, rode their (deserved) luck at times early on and then totally demolished Stoke with the ruthless precision we’ve come to expect in attack so far this campaign.

I assume ‘Brett’ is currently mumbling “League One players...” to himself repeatedly whilst rocking back and forth in the corner of a dark room. ?

And "we just need some United youth team players, why dont we get some united youth team players......"
 
I'm 100% on MiW it was a straight red that the ref bottled again for both the penalty and the head butt. I couldn't believe the linesman and ref both saw that donkey Williams launch his head into Powell and thought that was equal to Powells pushing him over. I thought a yellow for Powell was fair enough but if Williams headbutt wasn't a cast iron red i don't know what is!

Remember the mood after the Rangers game and look at how we all feel tonight. Even look at some of the response after the Rotherham cup game - we had so much negativity about our chances - but football can change so quickly and we've started this season with 4 outstanding performances and if it wasn't for some bad refs, bad luck and some individual errors from throwing a new back 4 together it could've been even better. So next time we have a bad result i hope our fans base can keep that in mind and not get so downhearted.
 
I hope Reece James keeps his place, as the defence seems to be building up an understanding. Physically he adds height to the backline too, and as good as Byrne is going forward he definitely doesn't add height to the squad.

In many ways the team reminds me Jewel's team in the way they play. The speed in which they close down the opposition's options is perfect for this league. Attacking on the break at pace. There was a couple of times yesterday when we lost a bitof momentum due to misplaced passes - but the weather was awful and it seemed like the ball was sometimes holding up.

Lots of positives to build on, but think people should remain cautious about QPR. Obviously they've not started to click, but how many times has that sort of team had a performance against us?
 
Once more I've issues with the ref. Again I'm perplexed why he didn't dismiss whoever fouled Powell for the pen, pulled back again 6 yards out with a tap in awaiting. Williams was a disgrace - when is a head butt, even in the chest not a straight red? He lost his head and should have been carded again for chopping down Powell twice before a ludicrous challenge for his dismissal.

The bloke who fouled for the penalty wasn’t sent off because (as it wasn’t dangerous play) it would only have been a red if it had denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity.
When Powell was fouled he was 6 yards from the ball so how was that even remotely a goal scoring opportunity unless he has Inspector Gadget legs??

And it wasn’t a head butt from Williams. He ran at him from a short distance with his head down & barged him with his shoulder - no different to 2 players barging into each other with their chests as we see all the time after a bad foul. Powell deliberately threw him to the ground. A Caution for both for adopting an aggressive attitude was the right decision.
He’d clearly lost his head and was gonna get sent off soon & so should have been pulled by Rowett but none of his other challenges after that were worthy of a 2nd yellow even though you could see what was coming until the foul on Windass

Thought the officials were good tonight & Latics were even better!!
 
The bloke who fouled for the penalty wasn’t sent off because (as it wasn’t dangerous play) it would only have been a red if it had denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity.
When Powell was fouled he was 6 yards from the ball so how was that even remotely a goal scoring opportunity unless he has Inspector Gadget legs??

And it wasn’t a head butt from Williams. He ran at him from a short distance with his head down & barged him with his shoulder - no different to 2 players barging into each other with their chests as we see all the time after a bad foul. Powell deliberately threw him to the ground. A Caution for both for adopting an aggressive attitude was the right decision.
He’d clearly lost his head and was gonna get sent off soon & so should have been pulled by Rowett but none of his other challenges after that were worthy of a 2nd yellow even though you could see what was coming until the foul on Windass

Thought the officials were good tonight & Latics were even better!!

It doesn't have to be dangerous play to be a red just a deliberate foul rather than a genuine attempt to get to the ball which it was again. The initial shirt pull by Allan happened before the ball was played by Robinson which slowed Powell down from getting there. He probably still wouldn't have reached the ball with the pace on it but Allan didnt know that he was just trying to stop him with an illegal shirt pull rather than a genuine tackle. If he slid in in the vicinity of the ball and missed the ref can give the benefit of the doubt and go yellow, but when it's a shirt pull you've removed any benefit of the doubt.

For Williams, i think its fair to call that a head butt as you dont accidentally charge towards your oponent with your head down over any distance. He easily couldve stood up straight and lead with his shoulder or chest if he wanted to barge into Powell as retaliation or used his arms to push him as he got up - which wouldnt risk a red. It was a deliberate act of aggression regardless of how much impact there was on the shoulder vs the head - he chose to go head first and you can't do that. Much like most head butts in football they often aren't that powerful or a genuine attempt to knock their opponent out (this certainly wasnt) but just a petulant act but soon as you use your head in any way it's always been an automatic red card by the letter of the law.
 
Was in the Stoke hospitality so couldn`t jump around to our goals which is harder than you think when the passion is there ,
Thought we were in for a beating first 15 mins we we not in it , Stoke are going to struggle as there fans have proper hatred for Rowett
 
Last night made me think of the dire performances under Joyce. This season so far has been a wonderful breath of fresh air - even better than last year. Teams in this division are more likely to play football and attack unlike the many teams we played last year who parked the bus - especially at the DW. Much credit must go to Cook for his philosophy as to how the game should be played and naturally to the players who have been given the confidence to carry it out. So far we are quite at home in the Championship. Long may it continue! Up the tics!
 
It doesn't have to be dangerous play to be a red just a deliberate foul rather than a genuine attempt to get to the ball which it was again. The initial shirt pull by Allan happened before the ball was played by Robinson which slowed Powell down from getting there. He probably still wouldn't have reached the ball with the pace on it but Allan didnt know that he was just trying to stop him with an illegal shirt pull rather than a genuine tackle. If he slid in in the vicinity of the ball and missed the ref can give the benefit of the doubt and go yellow, but when it's a shirt pull you've removed any benefit of the doubt.

For Williams, i think its fair to call that a head butt as you dont accidentally charge towards your oponent with your head down over any distance. He easily couldve stood up straight and lead with his shoulder or chest if he wanted to barge into Powell as retaliation or used his arms to push him as he got up - which wouldnt risk a red. It was a deliberate act of aggression regardless of how much impact there was on the shoulder vs the head - he chose to go head first and you can't do that. Much like most head butts in football they often aren't that powerful or a genuine attempt to knock their opponent out (this certainly wasnt) but just a petulant act but soon as you use your head in any way it's always been an automatic red card by the letter of the law.

Err on your first point, I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. The only part of the laws of the game where "deliberate" is even mentioned is around handball. There is no mention anywhere else of that word so I'm not sure where you get that from. "Deliberate" fouls are carried out all over the pitch, throughout the game & every game would get abandoned if players were red carded for deliberate fouls.
As I've said, the only instances in which the Stoke player could have been sent off for that penalty foul was if it was deemed dangerous play or if it denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity - that was neither
There is a recent change in guidance that mentions pushing, pulling etc.. still being red cards even if a penalty is awarded but it only applies to denying goal scoring opportunities and not to every foul in the penalty area. A ref can caution a player for a denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity if there was a genuine attempt for the ball.
If the ref gave the penalty at the initial point of the foul then the ball had too far to go & too many people to possibly block or get to the ball for it to be a goal scoring opportunity. If its given when Powell falls then he was nowhere near the ball so it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity and therefore can't be a red card offence
As a ref I had to sit through numerous mind numbing training sessions & examples showing what was & wasn't a red card for DOGSO under the new guidance & what wasn't and I can tell you with 100% certainty that that one last night wasn't

In fairness with Williams charge you can make a case for a sending off even if it is a weak one.
But what he did would have to be deemed violent conduct (again nothing to do with it being deliberate) or dangerous play & that was neither IMO. I can see how some could deem it violent conduct but for me the way you run at someone is irrelevant & he deliberately made contact with his shoulder & not his head anyway. For me if you deem running at someone as violent conduct then you also have to deem throwing someone to the floor (which is what Powell did) as violent conduct. You can't have one & not the other
The ref made the right decision in my book by cautioning both for adopting an aggressive attitude rather than dismissing both for violent conduct